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Keep the unknown unknown: deactivate the discovery scanner in w-space

Author
Gerlaise deTroix
Federation Navy Auxiliary Fleet
#41 - 2013-07-08 08:32:30 UTC
Apollo Eros wrote:
I thought to myself jesus why did they do that. I then thought to myself why has no one said something about this being on sisi.


Maybe they did that because the alternative is repetetive, boring, un-fun and doesn't add anything to the game at all? And because they removed the prime means of finding new signatures?

If they'd remove the auto-popup the only change it would bring is that experienced WH residents get RSI from spamming D-Scan and probes all the time. Sorry, but I prefer to keep my sanity and somewhat fun in the game even if it means gankbears have a somewhat harder time.
BinaryData
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-07-09 16:48:16 UTC  |  Edited by: BinaryData
unimatrix0030 wrote:
I like bothe ideas in this thread(original and the one from Otumi) , i only have one question though did the new system bring in more people and new people?
If it does, do they interact with us?
If one of those questions are no then the system hasn't done us any good and should be altered , if not then we might have jumped the gun to fast... .


You want the new W-Space kiddies to interact with the likes of YOU? F*** that, I've had my fair share of run ins with Tranmission Lost. You clowns don't give fair fights, just mass blobs. It's like a wolf in a pen full of sheep. Eventually one will die.


Edit:

As for the topic; I agree with Penny & Okumi. There needs to be a change to it, a step backwards, but still a step forwards. I believe the new discovery scanner made it easier for PvPers, than the care bears. Yes you can see a new hole pop up, but whats to stop someone from coming in the old wormholes? I live in a c2 with static c3 & hs, I can't even mine in my hole anymore. Closing the WH doesn't do jack, the grav anom needs to be moved back to a signature.
Xia Kairui
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-07-12 12:37:45 UTC
BinaryData wrote:
Yes you can see a new hole pop up, but whats to stop someone from coming in the old wormholes? I live in a c2 with static c3 & hs, I can't even mine in my hole anymore. Closing the WH doesn't do jack,


Uh, what? If you close a wormhole no one can use it. Sure, you get a new static, but you ARE aware that (as far as we know) as long as you haven't warped to it there is no K162 on the other side?

Thus, once you closed your static(s) no one can enter the hole without opening a new wormhole and spawning a new signature.


As for the OP, we already had the mechanics you want back. Everybody worth his salt had Deep Space probes active when doing anything serious. Now that they are removed the signature popping is the only way to see new threats unless you have a small enough WH that you can cover it with the remaining probes.
So, no to the OP.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-07-12 13:55:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Omega Flames
Messoroz wrote:
The only one opposing this idea are the carebears.

/me is a carebear...and i support this change. W-space is (imo) supposed to be a much harsher environment to be in and being told immediately when a new wh opened into your system removes a huge portion of the possible pvp opportunites in w-space. I've spent almost a year living in w-space and the need to be paranoid about who's in your system is something that I enjoy about w-space. The current mechanic comes as close to adding a local as is possible without actually doing it and us w-space dwellers like our space discovery scanner free.

edit: just came back to the game so I didn't realize there are sites in w-space that are warpable to without the need to scan them down (which is another horrible idea btw) so both need removing at the same time otherwise it would be far too advantageous for the ones that opened the wh.
Bjurn Akely
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#45 - 2013-07-12 16:59:44 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
Messoroz wrote:
The only one opposing this idea are the carebears.

/me is a carebear...and i support this change. W-space is (imo) supposed to be a much harsher environment to be in and being told immediately when a new wh opened into your system removes a huge portion of the possible pvp opportunites in w-space. I've spent almost a year living in w-space and the need to be paranoid about who's in your system is something that I enjoy about w-space. The current mechanic comes as close to adding a local as is possible without actually doing it and us w-space dwellers like our space discovery scanner free.

edit: just came back to the game so I didn't realize there are sites in w-space that are warpable to without the need to scan them down (which is another horrible idea btw) so both need removing at the same time otherwise it would be far too advantageous for the ones that opened the wh.


Totally with you. Swapping between being carabear(ish) and predatory myself and I must say that I much more preferred it when I had to combat scan miners down. About the only chance a miner have to evade a cloaky aggressor was to notice probes.

I can not understand why the Grav sites where made anomalies (shows up at 100% without probes) and gas/ladar remained signatures. Any reasoning that the grav sites should be easier to find does not sound plausible due to the fact that in w-space people have the ability to scan anyway. The more conspiratorial part of me says that the old subject of "we want less ABC ores coming out of W-space" could be a real reason.
Resilan Bearcat
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-07-13 01:38:14 UTC
I do not mind the new system nor do I care if you remove it. Anyone with probes out who was paying attention, was still aware of a new sig as soon as it came up anyway.

In my past experience, I rarely saw much activity in wormholes during the summer months. This year, I seem to be encountering more new players in the lower class wormholes. Sometimes simplifying things encourages new blood which is a good thing.

I am weeks ahead on my blog with a variety of fun encounters from this summer. Keep the newbies coming. :P
Johnson 1044
Johnson Organic Produce
#47 - 2013-07-13 04:53:49 UTC
Cliff notes on the OP would be nice but I read the first paragraph and agree. IMO the discovery scanner takes all the mystery out of exploration. Remove it completely.
Thor66777
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-07-14 01:42:35 UTC
Remove wh sigs.
Lucas Ericsson
Legio III Italica
#49 - 2013-07-14 01:43:04 UTC
Yes, +1.

You should have to work for your security.
Mapster Tacitus
Kriegsmarinewerft
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2013-07-14 04:36:28 UTC
Quote:
Yes, +1.

You should have to work for your security.

-1

The Discovery Scanner is fine the way it is. Some people here act like its scanning Ships or something. Roll
There is always a static or two in your Wormhole. You have to cloak up at 100km, hit D-Scan all the Time and always have your Eyes on the Overview, so you dont miss this 1 second a Covert Ops shows up. How much more work do you want ?
Bjurn Akely
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#51 - 2013-07-14 18:28:09 UTC
Mapster Tacitus wrote:
Quote:
Yes, +1.

You should have to work for your security.

-1

The Discovery Scanner is fine the way it is. Some people here act like its scanning Ships or something. Roll
There is always a static or two in your Wormhole. You have to cloak up at 100km, hit D-Scan all the Time and always have your Eyes on the Overview, so you dont miss this 1 second a Covert Ops shows up. How much more work do you want ?


It's not the work-load that I/we "want". What I want is the iniscurity, the tension, the unknown. The excitement of being unsure weather the T3's are setting up for to hit us just as we kill the last Sleeper. And I want to be able to do that to others.
Elistea
BLUE Regiment.
#52 - 2013-07-16 07:51:59 UTC
Well its completely ******** that ATM you can't rly detect/scan or defend against cloaky thread in WH. Noone needs to scan Ore sites any moar = free kills for everyone!
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#53 - 2013-07-16 10:11:11 UTC
Sigs autoupdate on sesion changes in our space

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Bjurn Akely
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#54 - 2013-07-16 21:16:27 UTC
Elistea wrote:
Well its completely ******** that ATM you can't rly detect/scan or defend against cloaky thread in WH. Noone needs to scan Ore sites any moar = free kills for everyone!


The whole premise and purpose of cloaky ships is that they can't be detected. I hardly consider it appropriate to make them detectable. I'm not sure that's what you're suggesting though.

That the Grav sites are now anomalies instead of signatures is a poor choice in my opinion. Even though I've lived in W-space for years I've mined for... 3 times? I've tried and gank miners as often I've had the opportunity though and I really liked the challenge of trying to scan the mining site down without the miners noticing. Being in cloaky ships I figure it was the miners best defense - to keep vigilant. I'm pretty crap at scanning so they got away more often than not.
Temba Ronin
#55 - 2013-08-23 00:55:01 UTC
My experience with wh-space is limited to sneaking in to mine ore and or grab some sleeper loot. I have never lived long term in a wh and fortunately never been killed in one lol.

Seems like CCP needs to rethink some of the mechanics of the pop up no to minimal skill required scanning recently implemented.

In my humble opinion it should be limited to highsec for the average player and sov null sec as an upgrade and only readable by the sov holders, in NPC Null for members of the specific race controlling the space. It should be a function we can shut completely OFF like the Captain's Quarters. Seeing that junk when making a long freighter run in high sec space is mind numbing.

In Low sec it should be range based at best only showing things within d-scan range if at all, and I suspect it has no place at all in wh-space, I always thought of those areas as being beyond the constant technological reach of the EVE universe beyond the well placed POS and daring pilots in their ships.

To sum up where this feature should and could be best implemented:

High security space annoying pop up ok for everyone to see or shut off, Low security space limited range if at all and certainly not in every low sec system, Null security space only as an upgrade available for Sov holders exclusively, NPC Null Security space only for the NPC members of the race that controls the area, because when was the last time CCP showed some love to players who stay in their NPC starting spot? Last but not least in Wormhole space not at all.

I'm no expert but this seems more equitable.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Faded Silver
Shadowlight Society
#56 - 2013-08-23 05:15:10 UTC
Lucas Ericsson wrote:
Yes, +1.

You should have to work for your security.


I'll be an "unpopular" one and disagree. The new system is fine. Although many don't want to admit it, there was *always* this type of warning system in place. The only difference is that now you only have to keep the scan window open and watch as opposed to having to annoyingly click "scan" with combat scanners (which, by the way, is hardly considered "working" for my security). This type of monotonous "gameplay" is simply a function that adds an element of tedium to w-space, not difficulty. This tedium serves to only raise the barrier of entry into w-space, which in turn means there are less people to "hunt". Before the change, I could tell within seconds of a "new signature" that has appeared in the system, the only difference is now I'm not clicking "scan".

I have to admit though, the amount of butt-hurt in this thread is amusing.
Orlacc
#57 - 2013-08-23 05:39:57 UTC
I agree. WHs should be scary....

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#58 - 2013-08-23 12:21:52 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
My experience with wh-space is limited to sneaking in to mine ore and or grab some sleeper loot. I have never lived long term in a wh and fortunately never been killed in one lol.

Seems like CCP needs to rethink some of the mechanics of the pop up no to minimal skill required scanning recently implemented.

In my humble opinion it should be limited to highsec for the average player and sov null sec as an upgrade and only readable by the sov holders, in NPC Null for members of the specific race controlling the space. It should be a function we can shut completely OFF like the Captain's Quarters. Seeing that junk when making a long freighter run in high sec space is mind numbing.

In Low sec it should be range based at best only showing things within d-scan range if at all, and I suspect it has no place at all in wh-space, I always thought of those areas as being beyond the constant technological reach of the EVE universe beyond the well placed POS and daring pilots in their ships.

To sum up where this feature should and could be best implemented:

High security space annoying pop up ok for everyone to see or shut off, Low security space limited range if at all and certainly not in every low sec system, Null security space only as an upgrade available for Sov holders exclusively, NPC Null Security space only for the NPC members of the race that controls the area, because when was the last time CCP showed some love to players who stay in their NPC starting spot? Last but not least in Wormhole space not at all.

I'm no expert but this seems more equitable.


Yes, this.
Also, you new scanners lo ers, go back to empire.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Alundil
Rolled Out
#59 - 2013-08-23 14:58:17 UTC
Just happened to see this. Wholeheartedly agree.

I'm right behind you

Penny Ibramovic
Wormhole Engineers
#60 - 2013-08-23 17:02:48 UTC
Faded Silver wrote:
...there was *always* this type of warning system in place... This type of monotonous "gameplay" is simply a function that adds an element of tedium... the only difference is now I'm not clicking "scan".


CCP should introduce an automatic 0.01 ISKer for market traders. Set the time delay for lowering your sell order, set the lowest price, and your order will automatically detect a cheaper seller and undercut them by 0.01 ISK, without your having to do anything!

Hey, we know people are doing this anyway, it only adds a level of tedium to the gameplay to do it yourself, which adds an extra barrier of entry to market trading, and this way it removes the need click around the market interface all the time, and means you don't need to train an alt.

Also, how about the automatic cyno? Pick a station you want to jump to, pay a nominal fee that's equivalent to a frigate fitted with a cyno and basic clone, and the station will light a cyno beacon for you.

People do this anyway, lighting your own station cyno beacons only adds a level of tedium to gameplay, and this way it removes the need to train an alt.

Or maybe, as Akely says, sometimes you need to work for what you get. The people who train alts or compromise fittings to scan for new signatures get a benefit over those who don't. Those who put up with a bit of 'tedious' gameplay gain over those who can't be bothered.

Those players who enjoy the risk and threat of a w-space without a discovery scanner get to keep the thrill of being in truly dangerous space. And those who find it tedious can look for their fun and ISK elsewhere.