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What factors determine station refine yield?
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Hookswoop Skydance
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-08-23 03:50:35 UTC
I have searched to find the answer, but I have not been able to figure this out... What?

My understanding was that regarding refine yields, standing with the faction and corporation that own the station determines the amount of tax (the "we take" part); however, there seems to be some other factor that I do not know because a station with better corporate standing is giving me less yield than a station with lower corp standing (both same faction).

Both stations are Caldari State faction and have a 50% Base Yield:

Station A is owned by Caldari Navy, where my standing is 2.56
Station B is owned by State War Academy, where my standing is 4.00

Station A is giving me a net yield of 98.5% with a tax of 1.54%
Station B is giving me a net yield of 98.0% with a tax of 2.00%

The only difference between the two is that I have run a few missions for an agent in station A, and thus I have better agent standing there, but I was under the impression that agent standing does not factor in to refine yields? My suspicion that agent standing may play a role is reinforced in that Jita 4-4 is also Caldari Navy and 50%, but it gives less yield than station A above (another Caldari Navy station). I asked in game and was repeatedly told that agent standing does not matter, but if that is true I have no clue what is causing the confusing yield amounts.

I would very much appreciate some help on understanding how the tax and yield amounts are determined. Big smile
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#2 - 2013-08-23 05:32:37 UTC
Hookswoop Skydance wrote:
I have searched to find the answer, but I have not been able to figure this out... What?

My understanding was that regarding refine yields, standing with the faction and corporation that own the station determines the amount of tax (the "we take" part); however, there seems to be some other factor that I do not know because a station with better corporate standing is giving me less yield than a station with lower corp standing (both same faction).

Both stations are Caldari State faction and have a 50% Base Yield:

Station A is owned by Caldari Navy, where my standing is 2.56
Station B is owned by State War Academy, where my standing is 4.00

Station A is giving me a net yield of 98.5% with a tax of 1.54%
Station B is giving me a net yield of 98.0% with a tax of 2.00%

The only difference between the two is that I have run a few missions for an agent in station A, and thus I have better agent standing there, but I was under the impression that agent standing does not factor in to refine yields? My suspicion that agent standing may play a role is reinforced in that Jita 4-4 is also Caldari Navy and 50%, but it gives less yield than station A above (another Caldari Navy station). I asked in game and was repeatedly told that agent standing does not matter, but if that is true I have no clue what is causing the confusing yield amounts.

I would very much appreciate some help on understanding how the tax and yield amounts are determined. Big smile

only thing I can think of is you tried with different ores and have different refine skills for those ores...

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Hookswoop Skydance
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-08-23 05:35:43 UTC
Tul Breetai wrote:
Hookswoop Skydance wrote:
I have searched to find the answer, but I have not been able to figure this out... What?

My understanding was that regarding refine yields, standing with the faction and corporation that own the station determines the amount of tax (the "we take" part); however, there seems to be some other factor that I do not know because a station with better corporate standing is giving me less yield than a station with lower corp standing (both same faction).

Both stations are Caldari State faction and have a 50% Base Yield:

Station A is owned by Caldari Navy, where my standing is 2.56
Station B is owned by State War Academy, where my standing is 4.00

Station A is giving me a net yield of 98.5% with a tax of 1.54%
Station B is giving me a net yield of 98.0% with a tax of 2.00%

The only difference between the two is that I have run a few missions for an agent in station A, and thus I have better agent standing there, but I was under the impression that agent standing does not factor in to refine yields? My suspicion that agent standing may play a role is reinforced in that Jita 4-4 is also Caldari Navy and 50%, but it gives less yield than station A above (another Caldari Navy station). I asked in game and was repeatedly told that agent standing does not matter, but if that is true I have no clue what is causing the confusing yield amounts.

I would very much appreciate some help on understanding how the tax and yield amounts are determined. Big smile

only thing I can think of is you tried with different ores and have different refine skills for those ores...

Nope... I tested using exact same stacks of same ore. In fact, I tested several items, both ores and modules, always same stack just jumped between stations.
Robbin Sund
#4 - 2013-08-23 05:56:30 UTC
Hookswoop Skydance wrote:
I have searched to find the answer, but I have not been able to figure this out... What?

My understanding was that regarding refine yields, standing with the faction and corporation that own the station determines the amount of tax (the "we take" part); however, there seems to be some other factor that I do not know because a station with better corporate standing is giving me less yield than a station with lower corp standing (both same faction).

Both stations are Caldari State faction and have a 50% Base Yield:

Station A is owned by Caldari Navy, where my standing is 2.56
Station B is owned by State War Academy, where my standing is 4.00

Station A is giving me a net yield of 98.5% with a tax of 1.54%
Station B is giving me a net yield of 98.0% with a tax of 2.00%

The only difference between the two is that I have run a few missions for an agent in station A, and thus I have better agent standing there, but I was under the impression that agent standing does not factor in to refine yields? My suspicion that agent standing may play a role is reinforced in that Jita 4-4 is also Caldari Navy and 50%, but it gives less yield than station A above (another Caldari Navy station). I asked in game and was repeatedly told that agent standing does not matter, but if that is true I have no clue what is causing the confusing yield amounts.

I would very much appreciate some help on understanding how the tax and yield amounts are determined. Big smile


Not sure here, but State war academy and caldari navy, do they belong to the same faction? ie: Caldari State?
Might this have something to do with it? :)
If so, I can see an easy way of getting standing for a faction and getting p-refine for npc-corps I never actually done missions with ^^

One way trip! Why dont you drive?
Hookswoop Skydance
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-08-23 06:14:05 UTC
Robbin Sund wrote:
Hookswoop Skydance wrote:
I have searched to find the answer, but I have not been able to figure this out... What?

My understanding was that regarding refine yields, standing with the faction and corporation that own the station determines the amount of tax (the "we take" part); however, there seems to be some other factor that I do not know because a station with better corporate standing is giving me less yield than a station with lower corp standing (both same faction).

Both stations are Caldari State faction and have a 50% Base Yield:

Station A is owned by Caldari Navy, where my standing is 2.56
Station B is owned by State War Academy, where my standing is 4.00

Station A is giving me a net yield of 98.5% with a tax of 1.54%
Station B is giving me a net yield of 98.0% with a tax of 2.00%

The only difference between the two is that I have run a few missions for an agent in station A, and thus I have better agent standing there, but I was under the impression that agent standing does not factor in to refine yields? My suspicion that agent standing may play a role is reinforced in that Jita 4-4 is also Caldari Navy and 50%, but it gives less yield than station A above (another Caldari Navy station). I asked in game and was repeatedly told that agent standing does not matter, but if that is true I have no clue what is causing the confusing yield amounts.

I would very much appreciate some help on understanding how the tax and yield amounts are determined. Big smile


Not sure here, but State war academy and caldari navy, do they belong to the same faction? ie: Caldari State?
Might this have something to do with it? :)
If so, I can see an easy way of getting standing for a faction and getting p-refine for npc-corps I never actually done missions with ^^

Yes, same faction, Caldari State.
Also, EVE-Uni Wiki says that faction standing does not matter, only personal standing with corp that owns station.

This doesn't make any sense! Sad
Robbin Sund
#6 - 2013-08-23 06:41:11 UTC
Hookswoop Skydance wrote:

Yes, same faction, Caldari State.
Also, EVE-Uni Wiki says that faction standing does not matter, only personal standing with corp that owns station.

This doesn't make any sense! Sad


If I got the time and no answer is made I can take a check if I get "bonus" for high faction standing during refine.
How long ago was the eve-uni updated?

You are not just mixing up the stats here? :)

Lets cross finger for the first thought, secret buffs are always fine in my book. ;)

One way trip! Why dont you drive?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#7 - 2013-08-23 10:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Hookswoop Skydance wrote:
I have searched to find the answer, but I have not been able to figure this out... What?

My understanding was that regarding refine yields, standing with the faction and corporation that own the station determines the amount of tax (the "we take" part); however, there seems to be some other factor that I do not know because a station with better corporate standing is giving me less yield than a station with lower corp standing (both same faction).

Both stations are Caldari State faction and have a 50% Base Yield:

Station A is owned by Caldari Navy, where my standing is 2.56
Station B is owned by State War Academy, where my standing is 4.00




Google is your best friend in EVE.

NPC Corp Standing is most definitely a factor in refining efficiency.

It affects the taxing situation when marketing items there as well.

Faction standing, although a real thing, has nothing to do with refining directly.

Station taxes

NPC stations will take a share of the proceeds amounting to 5% of the resulting minerals. This tax will be reduced by your standing with the corporation running the station. At a standing of about 6.67, the amount taxed will be zero. It is a good idea to learn connections skill, because it increases your standing with corporation. With Connections at Level V, you need a raw standing of about 5.84 to achieve zero tax.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#8 - 2013-08-23 10:05:11 UTC
Hookswoop Skydance wrote:
I asked in game and was repeatedly told that agent standing does not matter, but if that is true I have no clue what is causing the confusing yield amounts.





Beware people ingame who are out for lulz.

"Welcome to EVE"

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-08-23 10:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Termy Rockling
Screenshots please, i havent noticed any behaviour like this myself.

Also Krixtal didnt read the question Roll
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#10 - 2013-08-23 11:18:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Termy Rockling wrote:
Screenshots please, i havent noticed any behaviour like this myself.

Also Krixtal didnt read the question Roll



Do what ??

He's wondering why he gets better refine with an NPC.

If trolling, it's fail.

edit: re-read entire post and you are trolling.

You don't even have the guts to post where I am in error.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Hookswoop Skydance
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-08-23 11:42:59 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Termy Rockling wrote:
Screenshots please, i havent noticed any behaviour like this myself.

Also Krixtal didnt read the question Roll



Do what ??

He's wondering why he gets better refine with an NPC.

If trolling, it's fail.

edit: re-read entire post and you are trolling.

You don't even have the guts to post where I am in error.

I do not intend to be rude, but it does seem quite clear that you did not read my question...




Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Hookswoop Skydance wrote:
I have searched to find the answer, but I have not been able to figure this out... What?

My understanding was that regarding refine yields, standing with the faction and corporation that own the station determines the amount of tax (the "we take" part); however, there seems to be some other factor that I do not know because a station with better corporate standing is giving me less yield than a station with lower corp standing (both same faction).

Both stations are Caldari State faction and have a 50% Base Yield:

Station A is owned by Caldari Navy, where my standing is 2.56
Station B is owned by State War Academy, where my standing is 4.00



Google is your best friend in EVE.

NPC Corp Standing is most definitely a factor in refining efficiency.

It affects the taxing situation when marketing items there as well.

Faction standing, although a real thing, has nothing to do with refining directly.

Station taxes

NPC stations will take a share of the proceeds amounting to 5% of the resulting minerals. This tax will be reduced by your standing with the corporation running the station. At a standing of about 6.67, the amount taxed will be zero. It is a good idea to learn connections skill, because it increases your standing with corporation. With Connections at Level V, you need a raw standing of about 5.84 to achieve zero tax.

This does not in any way address my question...

I was very clear that both stations are NPC stations of the same faction (Caldari State), but of different corporations (Caldari Navy Academy and State War Academy). My standing with SWA is 4.00 and my standing with CNA is 2.56, but the refine tax is higher at the station where I have higher standing with the corp that owns the station

Again... same faction, both NPC corporations that own the station.
The station with 4.00 corp standing taxes me 2.00%
The station with 2.56 corp standing taxes me 1.54%

There is clearly something else factoring into the equation, but I have no clue what it is, and I am simply asking for help in understanding.

Also, I appreciate the snide comment about how Google is my friend, but I have searched Google and every EVE forum and Wiki I know of and cannot find the answer; and considering your elite Google-Foo gave a completely irrelevant answer that in no way addressed the question... it seems very apparent that you are the one trolling in this thread.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#12 - 2013-08-23 11:46:59 UTC
Ah.

That is indeed reversed from expectation.

Too early in the AM.

The rude guy just could not be bothered to point that out, idiotically.

I vaguely remember encountering this before. Let me see what I can find out.......

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-08-23 11:54:39 UTC
Now i did not mean to be rude or anythin i thought it was totally obvious...
I know its EVE but im not on the forums attacking people like many others seem to be.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#14 - 2013-08-23 12:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
What are the Security Levels of the Station A and Station B Agents ???


edit: Not totally sure, but does State War Academy have any connection to Factional Warfare at all ?


I ask, because a lot of what I'm finding seems to be pointing to Faction Warfare...........

It has been revamped and there may be some bugs not get quashed.........

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#15 - 2013-08-23 12:37:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Coming up totally blank here.

I suggest a Petition, even if just to get clarification on what is indeed an important point for newer players. Please post the gist of the response if so.


edit: Unless Bugsy Van Halen miraculously comes to the rescue or something. Big smile

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#16 - 2013-08-23 13:15:47 UTC
Chribba might have an idea or solution. Allow me to summon him:

Chribba Chribba Chribba Big smile

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#17 - 2013-08-23 13:26:07 UTC
The basic refining yield formula is:

Refining Yield = MINIMUM( 100%, Station Facilities + 37.5% * (1 + Refining * 2%) * (1 + Refinery Efficiency * 4%) * (1 + Material Specialization * 5%) )

Then there is refining tax:

Tax Percentage = MAXIMUM( 0, 5 - 0.75 * Standing with Corporation )

Note that it is your standing with the corp owning the station, NOT their faction.
Hookswoop Skydance
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-08-23 14:04:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Hookswoop Skydance
Tau Cabalander wrote:
The basic refining yield formula is:

Refining Yield = MINIMUM( 100%, Station Facilities + 37.5% * (1 + Refining * 2%) * (1 + Refinery Efficiency * 4%) * (1 + Material Specialization * 5%) )

Then there is refining tax:

Tax Percentage = MAXIMUM( 0, 5 - 0.75 * Standing with Corporation )

Note that it is your standing with the corp owning the station, NOT their faction.

... omg



Please... somebody... please actually read my posts and answer if you can help me out with this problem?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-08-23 14:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
Can you post screenshots?

The thing is, what you're seeing does not make sense, the refining formula is as Tau gave, so there's something odd going on, either a bug or something not as it appears.
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#20 - 2013-08-23 14:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Iosue
Agent standing doesn't factor in at all. Question though:

Hookswoop Skydance wrote:
Station A is owned by Caldari Navy, where my standing is 2.56
Station B is owned by State War Academy, where my standing is 4.00


are these standings before or after skill bonuses are applied?

Edit: if they are after skill bonuses, what are your raw standings (pre-skill bonused) with each corp?
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