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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Automatic adjustment of orders
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Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-08-22 14:05:36 UTC
I think it would be a good idea to support automatic adjustment of orders so that a player can specify not only a top price, but a bottom price as well. If there was a competing order then both would automatically adjust until one's limit was reached.

Currently players who use trading bots already have this capability so I think it is only fair that the game provide rather than force me to go getting some wierd software written by some random guy to run on my machine in order to compete with the bots in the market.
Aplier Shivra
#2 - 2013-08-22 14:15:23 UTC
Droidster wrote:
I think it would be a good idea to support automatic adjustment of orders so that a player can specify not only a top price, but a bottom price as well. If there was a competing order then both would automatically adjust until one's limit was reached.

Currently players who use trading bots already have this capability so I think it is only fair that the game provide rather than force me to go getting some wierd software written by some random guy to run on my machine in order to compete with the bots in the market.


This wouldnt make much difference, whether you're competing on prices against bots or real players. I once did an experiment out in Amarr where over the course of an hour, I managed to push the buy order of a several hundred million item from about 120m below the lowest sell order to within 5 million of the sell order, simply because people would always try to outbid me. It seems most people will try to outbid if the buy order goes up by 5-10m, but at the 25-30m range they'll just leave it be. And also, what you are suggesting is called proxy bidding, which is pretty much just keeping the final "absolute max" number hidden from everyone else, and in the case of competing against bots ad real players, this would accomplish nothing, as they'd still just keep upping their price until it no longer gets outbid.
Dristan Evrard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-08-22 14:17:38 UTC
I too think this won't have the effect you're after.

Also, I think you expect too much. Eve doesn't even have a mechanism to progressively fill 'at market' orders at the next best available price.
Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-08-23 00:11:10 UTC
Dristan Evrard wrote:
I too think this won't have the effect you're after.

Also, I think you expect too much. Eve doesn't even have a mechanism to progressively fill 'at market' orders at the next best available price.


That another problem I complained about here.

You are right that if you put this feature in you would probably want to have some kind of automatic matching take place if the buys and sells cross.

The bots typically have lower limits. Every trader has a low limit. Right now we have to laboriously repost orders to find this lower limit. Its tedious and unnecessary. We should just be willing to post how low we are willing to go. Ideally it would let us only lower our bid against a quantity mininum as well. For example, if a guy posts just a single unit of Isogen (or whatever) you might not want to post a sell order of 50000 isogen under that one, so you should be able to specify quantity minimums.

In other words, a sell order should have the following parameters:

1. station where goods are
2. number of goods to sell at specific price range
3. duration of order
4. range of order visibility
5. the maximum price to post the goods at
6. the minimum price allowable
7. the competitive volume required for setting the price lower

For example, if your order has items:

2 = 15
5 = 10,000,000 ISK
6 = 4,000,000 ISK
7 = 5

and the order book looks like this:

1 @ 4,500,000
3 @ 4,700,000
2 @ 4,900,000
6 @ 5,200,000
10 @ 11,000,000

Then your order should get posted like this:

1 @ 4,500,000
3 @ 4,700,000
15 @ 4,899,999 <= your order
2 @ 4,900,000
6 @ 5,200,000
10 @ 11,000,000

In other words, you are posted to be the lowest order as long as (1) there are fewer than 5 items below you, and (2) it is at or above your minimum.

Obviously your posting could cause other orders to adjust, so there will be an iterative computation to determine the stable state of the order book.
Dristan Evrard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-08-23 02:08:54 UTC
Droidster wrote:

The bots typically have lower limits. Every trader has a low limit. Right now we have to laboriously repost orders to find this lower limit. Its tedious and unnecessary. We should just be willing to post how low we are willing to go. Ideally it would let us only lower our bid against a quantity mininum as well. For example, if a guy posts just a single unit of Isogen (or whatever) you might not want to post a sell order of 50000 isogen under that one, so you should be able to specify quantity minimums.


Firstly, you want the Jita server to explode don't you?

Sure this level of automation puts you on par with the botters, but then you have to ask, is this level of automation desirable in the first place?

If anything, it's already too easy to modify orders, and the system should be changed to make it harder to modify once an order is placed. Then player skill in determining the fair market price would be rewarded, where the fair price is the market's dynamic equilibrium price. Players would have to work out from the get go what this fair market price is, and would be financially punished if their price does not meet market expectations.

Currently, the system encourages players (human or otherwise) to continuously undercut the current market price by insignificant amounts, achieving little in pushing the market towards its equilibrium price. That this rent seeking behavior is dominant is plainly obvious from the large bid-ask spreads of almost every item on eve markets.