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The Great Ice Mining Interdiction: Not so Great

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#341 - 2013-08-21 21:36:10 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:



To prove a constant. It isn't a risk if you do not consider it anything more than a cost. If you think it's a risk of NOT losing your ship, you are not doing it right.

The risks you listed have nothing to do with the cost of the ship since you know it's going to get blown up no matter what. Anything else is supposition.

So tell me, is there a chance you might not get your ship blown up? No, you already answered that. So it isn't a risk, because risk is defined by chance. Certainty denotes "chance" and risk is based on uncertainties.

There is nothing uncertain about Concord which you yourself well know.



So because I am willing to lose my ship I will enjoy a 100% certainty that my target will die no matter what they and their support do, that everything on their ship will drop, that nobody will attack the ship I use to scoop the loot and that nobody can attack me as I transport it back to station to sell on?

You are honestly sticking with this argument?
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#342 - 2013-08-21 21:37:52 UTC
Rekon X wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

A suicide gank is only a success if you actaully kill your target. There are chance for that to happen so your gank has risk.


Sorry you feel the need to validate yourself to others as being skilled. You'd never convince me of it, and looks like many more see it as nothing more than mindless and void of any skill.

NPC alt scans the ship down.

Goon plugs the fit into EFT to calculate defense, and how many T1 Meta 0 Catalysts it will take to pop it.

Said NPC alt sits cloaked for warpin to target and make sure no one else is around to attack them.

Goons warp in, destroy the target and run back to their station and hide before anyone else comes along.

I can see a great amount of skill in this procedure. That is if you have none.




Well, I'm sure the coordination of doing it all takes some skill and planning, there is that. I absolutely respect my black op FCs because the level of planning all those damned cynos and exit cynos and fuel distribution etc is a pain in the ass. I can only assume the planning involving a suicide gank is much the same thing.

But the fact of calling suicide ganking in my eyes, is only in relation to it being profitable.

It's pretty ******* easy to buy a ship and shoot something you shouldn't. It's a simple spend isk, blow it up. Not alot of risk there. Only cost.

The risk, is when you can spend 5mil isk and come home with 50bil, because that freighter surviving or not, not to mention any other help (and other influences already mentioned) are in fact elements of risk, because of that chance.

But the cost of buying the gank ships is simply a cost, nothing else.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#343 - 2013-08-21 21:39:50 UTC
I will however, take the time to applaud all the people who rise to the defense of people, even in fact of them being wrong and trying to circumvent simple fact into fantasy to pretend something is something different than it is.

Tip of my hat indeed.

Now, get the hell over the fact that suicide ganking is in fact riskless pvp since you aren't putting anything on the line and just gank a ship and be done with it.

Your wallet is not gonna flash any less or more because you got proven wrong on the forums.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#344 - 2013-08-21 21:42:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:



To prove a constant. It isn't a risk if you do not consider it anything more than a cost. If you think it's a risk of NOT losing your ship, you are not doing it right.

The risks you listed have nothing to do with the cost of the ship since you know it's going to get blown up no matter what. Anything else is supposition.

So tell me, is there a chance you might not get your ship blown up? No, you already answered that. So it isn't a risk, because risk is defined by chance. Certainty denotes "chance" and risk is based on uncertainties.

There is nothing uncertain about Concord which you yourself well know.



So because I am willing to lose my ship I will enjoy a 100% certainty that my target will die no matter what they and their support do, that everything on their ship will drop, that nobody will attack the ship I use to scoop the loot and that nobody can attack me as I transport it back to station to sell on?

You are honestly sticking with this argument?


Nono, please I'll rephrase it into something smaller and easier to figure out.

Because you are willing to lose your ship, you can guarantee that you will spend your ship as a cost to try to kill something.

It's pretty ******* simple dude. You know the ship is going to die as soon as you commit it. There is no risk of not losing it, you know you will lose it.


This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#345 - 2013-08-21 21:46:31 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:


Nono, please I'll rephrase it into something smaller and easier to figure out.

Because you are willing to lose your ship, you can guarantee that you will spend your ship as a cost to try to kill something.

It's pretty ******* simple dude. You know the ship is going to die as soon as you commit it. There is no risk of not losing it, you know you will lose it.




So what about the risk of not killing the target?

What about the risk of the loot not dropping?

What about the risk when scooping the loot?

What about the risk of getting ganked yourself when trying to get the loot to station?
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#346 - 2013-08-21 21:47:26 UTC
I have yet to ever hear anyone ever think they could suicide gank and not get blown up by Concord.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#347 - 2013-08-21 21:51:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


Nono, please I'll rephrase it into something smaller and easier to figure out.

Because you are willing to lose your ship, you can guarantee that you will spend your ship as a cost to try to kill something.

It's pretty ******* simple dude. You know the ship is going to die as soon as you commit it. There is no risk of not losing it, you know you will lose it.




So what about the risk of not killing the target?

What about the risk of the loot not dropping?

What about the risk when scooping the loot?

What about the risk of getting ganked yourself when trying to get the loot to station?



What about any of that? What has any of that to do with whether your ship gets blown up by Concord or not?

But I'll entertain the notion.... let me ask you those same questions...

So what about the risk of not killing the target? Would you still be in the same ship you shot with in the first place?

What about the risk of the loot not dropping? Would you still be in the same ship you shot with in the first place?

What about the risk when scooping the loot? Would you still be in the same ship you shot with in the first place?

What about the risk of getting ganked yourself when trying to get the loot to station? Would you be in the same ship as when you first shot the target?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#348 - 2013-08-21 21:54:05 UTC
You know, come to think of it, I think I'd make an excellent Goon sometimes.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#349 - 2013-08-21 21:57:02 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:


What about any of that?


These are all the risks currently faced by suicide gankers in high sec. Suicide ganking is the most risky activity in high sec right now.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#350 - 2013-08-21 22:00:12 UTC
There's an ice interdiction...?!

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Rekon X
Doomheim
#351 - 2013-08-21 22:05:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


What about any of that?


These are all the risks currently faced by suicide gankers in high sec. Suicide ganking is the most risky activity in high sec right now.


I had to laugh.

Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#352 - 2013-08-21 22:09:02 UTC
Rekon X wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


What about any of that?


These are all the risks currently faced by suicide gankers in high sec. Suicide ganking is the most risky activity in high sec right now.


I had to laugh.


Go on then, name a more risky activity in high sec to do in ships.
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#353 - 2013-08-21 22:21:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rekon X wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


What about any of that?


These are all the risks currently faced by suicide gankers in high sec. Suicide ganking is the most risky activity in high sec right now.


I had to laugh.


Go on then, name a more risky activity in high sec to do in ships.


Uh....ice mining during an "interdiction"?

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#354 - 2013-08-21 22:25:20 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:


Uh....ice mining during an "interdiction"?


Statistically exhumers are among the safest ships to be in. The only ships safer are freighters.
Rekon X
Doomheim
#355 - 2013-08-21 22:32:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


What about any of that?


These are all the risks currently faced by suicide gankers in high sec. Suicide ganking is the most risky activity in high sec right now.


Masterminds are another word that comes up all the time.
You keep hearing about these terrorists masterminds that get killed in the middle east.
Terrorists masterminds.
Mastermind is sort of a lofty way to describe what these guys do, don't you think?
They're not masterminds.
"OK, you take bomb, right? And you put in your backpack. And you get on bus and you blow yourself up. Alright?"
"Why do I have to blow myself up? Why can't I just:"
"Who's the ******* mastermind here? Me or you?"

Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#356 - 2013-08-21 22:39:38 UTC
Maybe I should have been more declarative.


Ice mining during an interdiction is more risky (in a ship) than suicide ganking.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#357 - 2013-08-21 22:49:46 UTC
Rekon X wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


What about any of that?


These are all the risks currently faced by suicide gankers in high sec. Suicide ganking is the most risky activity in high sec right now.


Masterminds are another word that comes up all the time.
You keep hearing about these terrorists masterminds that get killed in the middle east.
Terrorists masterminds.
Mastermind is sort of a lofty way to describe what these guys do, don't you think?
They're not masterminds.
"OK, you take bomb, right? And you put in your backpack. And you get on bus and you blow yourself up. Alright?"
"Why do I have to blow myself up? Why can't I just:"
"Who's the ******* mastermind here? Me or you?"

Being a mastermind is all about getting other people to do the dying, that said, real life terrorism is an inappropriate subject for the thread at hand, pixels dying are nowhere near the same as people dying.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#358 - 2013-08-21 22:58:30 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Rekon X wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


What about any of that?


These are all the risks currently faced by suicide gankers in high sec. Suicide ganking is the most risky activity in high sec right now.


Masterminds are another word that comes up all the time.
You keep hearing about these terrorists masterminds that get killed in the middle east.
Terrorists masterminds.
Mastermind is sort of a lofty way to describe what these guys do, don't you think?
They're not masterminds.
"OK, you take bomb, right? And you put in your backpack. And you get on bus and you blow yourself up. Alright?"
"Why do I have to blow myself up? Why can't I just:"
"Who's the ******* mastermind here? Me or you?"

Being a mastermind is all about getting other people to do the dying, that said, real life terrorism is an inappropriate subject for the thread at hand, pixels dying are nowhere near the same as people dying.


I do wonder why people mistake piracy for terrorism.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#359 - 2013-08-21 23:01:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
P(B|A) is not dependent on P(A) because it assumes that A happened.
…so much like it being stolen (or not), assuming that it has dropped, you mean?


Yes? P(B|A) is literally said, "The probability of B given A"

Quote:
Quote:
Do it yourself?
No. How about instead you prove that you actually know what you're talking about rather than presenting links that only show that you are aware of google.


You seem really defensive about having ****** up highschool level statistics; don't worry about it, most people do.
Rekon X
Doomheim
#360 - 2013-08-21 23:04:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Rekon X
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Rekon X wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


These are all the risks currently faced by suicide gankers in high sec. Suicide ganking is the most risky activity in high sec right now.


Masterminds are another word that comes up all the time.
You keep hearing about these terrorists masterminds that get killed in the middle east.
Terrorists masterminds.
Mastermind is sort of a lofty way to describe what these guys do, don't you think?
They're not masterminds.
"OK, you take bomb, right? And you put in your backpack. And you get on bus and you blow yourself up. Alright?"
"Why do I have to blow myself up? Why can't I just:"
"Who's the ******* mastermind here? Me or you?"

Being a mastermind is all about getting other people to do the dying, that said, real life terrorism is an inappropriate subject for the thread at hand, pixels dying are nowhere near the same as people dying.


It's in comment to baltec's statement "These are all risks currently faced by suicide gankers in high sec."

Fact is there are no "risks", it is calculated loses. There is no skill, it is all procedure.

It is carebear pvp. PVP being it involves another player. Not that they can actually attack back.

Definition of goon - a stupid person Those who can do, those who can't spew