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The Great Ice Mining Interdiction: Not so Great

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#141 - 2013-08-20 17:58:03 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Just fought in a war, I'm in chill mode at the moment. Please forgive me for not providing enough content for you as you warp from mission to mission.



Take your time, I'm on autopilot.

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#142 - 2013-08-20 18:02:19 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
An update of sorts...

I have alts in two different Caldari ice belts and it seems there are plenty enough miners to deplete the belts just as before the ice interdiction.

What I do notice is that there is a lack of Orcas and Freighters involved along with the usually ball of botters.

So suffice to say this ordeal has made it easier for the little man who solos to get his fair share of the ice.

Thanks for that interesting turn of events.

I mean all you need is a 11 million isk procurer and a clone with no implants and you can make your ships worth in 3 loads and everything else is just money in your pocket. So if you are killed and podded you can just keep mining.


Unless you dump directly at the selling point, it might just be a shitton of time wasted. For all we know, they will only target haulers in the next few days to kill the already mined ICE without having to deal with the procurer/skiff built in tank.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#143 - 2013-08-20 18:02:27 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
An update of sorts...

I have alts in two different Caldari ice belts and it seems there are plenty enough miners to deplete the belts just as before the ice interdiction.

What I do notice is that there is a lack of Orcas and Freighters involved along with the usually ball of botters.

So suffice to say this ordeal has made it easier for the little man who solos to get his fair share of the ice.

Thanks for that interesting turn of events.

I mean all you need is a 11 million isk procurer and a clone with no implants and you can make your ships worth in 3 loads and everything else is just money in your pocket. So if you are killed and podded you can just keep mining.

A procurer with the best mining yield fit and a T2 orca boosting, mining inflated Caldari ice still only makes 17.8m/hour. you'd make MUCH more simply mining regular ore in another region.

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#144 - 2013-08-20 18:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Lucas Kell wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
An update of sorts...

I have alts in two different Caldari ice belts and it seems there are plenty enough miners to deplete the belts just as before the ice interdiction.

What I do notice is that there is a lack of Orcas and Freighters involved along with the usually ball of botters.

So suffice to say this ordeal has made it easier for the little man who solos to get his fair share of the ice.

Thanks for that interesting turn of events.

I mean all you need is a 11 million isk procurer and a clone with no implants and you can make your ships worth in 3 loads and everything else is just money in your pocket. So if you are killed and podded you can just keep mining.

A procurer with the best mining yield fit and a T2 orca boosting, mining inflated Caldari ice still only makes 17.8m/hour. you'd make MUCH more simply mining regular ore in another region.


Hrm... My calculations of an unboosted Procurer gets around 20 million per hour with current ice prices with a cycle time of 50 secs.

Anyways.

I'm talking about people who don't own Orca's, freighters, and massive fleets of macks. People who run those large fleets are the people I don't like.

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#145 - 2013-08-20 18:41:41 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
An update of sorts...

I have alts in two different Caldari ice belts and it seems there are plenty enough miners to deplete the belts just as before the ice interdiction.

What I do notice is that there is a lack of Orcas and Freighters involved along with the usually ball of botters.

So suffice to say this ordeal has made it easier for the little man who solos to get his fair share of the ice.

Thanks for that interesting turn of events.

I mean all you need is a 11 million isk procurer and a clone with no implants and you can make your ships worth in 3 loads and everything else is just money in your pocket. So if you are killed and podded you can just keep mining.

A procurer with the best mining yield fit and a T2 orca boosting, mining inflated Caldari ice still only makes 17.8m/hour. you'd make MUCH more simply mining regular ore in another region.


Hrm... My calculations of an unboosted Procurer gets around 20 million per hour with current ice prices with a cycle time of 50 secs.

Anyways.

I'm talking about people who don't own Orca's, freighters, and massive fleets of macks. People who run those large fleets are the people I don't like.

You're right there, I stand corrected.
I'd still bet you could make more safer and quicker mining elsewhere in an exhumer however.

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Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#146 - 2013-08-20 20:00:08 UTC
Came to the thread looking for miner tears.

Left disappointed
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#147 - 2013-08-20 20:06:33 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
Yep, the interdiction was all talk and bluster and no action, continue mining safely folks. Don't worry about fitting extra tank you won't need it.

Max yield again. Might want those deadspace shield boosters for the rats, you know ~

This seems legit.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#148 - 2013-08-20 20:14:32 UTC
Ekhss Nihilo wrote:
Gealbhan wrote:
I don't normally mine ice but when I do, it goes in my whisky Arrow

Ice in a good single malt == sacrilege! Just a wee splash of water to open it up.

This. ^

And by 'wee', I mean 'added with a eyedropper.'
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#149 - 2013-08-20 20:42:18 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Came to the thread looking for miner tears.

Left disappointed


Give it a week before we get a good one. Right now its just the grr goon brigade.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-08-20 21:32:09 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Came to the thread looking for miner tears.

Left disappointed


Give it a week before we get a good one. Right now its just the grr goon brigade.


We've had some nice stuff in local after a gank, usually when the victim returns to the keyboard. Also that Tornado...

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2013-08-20 21:34:31 UTC
KuroVolt wrote:
Dyvim Slorm wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:

... I guess clone costs add up when you don't use a throwaway alt.



If you're using a throwaway alt then the only risk is one of a known cost if it all goes wrong. Simply put, there is only the cost of the ship you will lose in a suicide gank versus the unknown return in loot from the destroyed ship.

In other words its just a cost of doing business, not risk.


Isnt that the case for the miner or hauler or whoever is getting ganked too though?

Everytime you undock, there is a chance you will be engaged at some point, everyone who plays EVE should know this.

That means when you go out mining or you are hauling stuff, it should be a calculated risk, you should always keep in mind that there is a chance your ship wont make it back safely.

So *The only risk is one of a known cost if it all goes wrong.* aplies to everyone, be it suicide gankers, miners or haulers.



That's untrue. Miners RISK losing their ships. They MIGHT get blown up.

With suicide gankers there is no "might" unless there is no target. IF they do their job poorly, or well, they will still get blown up.

Concord can no longer be tanked or avoided unfortunately.

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Ekhss Nihilo
Dominion.
Pandemic Horde
#152 - 2013-08-20 21:34:39 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Ekhss Nihilo wrote:
Gealbhan wrote:
I don't normally mine ice but when I do, it goes in my whisky Arrow

Ice in a good single malt == sacrilege! Just a wee splash of water to open it up.

This. ^

And by 'wee', I mean 'added with a eyedropper.'

You have the right of it, sir. Sláinte!

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius (AD 121-180)
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#153 - 2013-08-20 21:59:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Murk Paradox wrote:
That's untrue. Miners RISK losing their ships. They MIGHT get blown up.

With suicide gankers there is no "might" unless there is no target. IF they do their job poorly, or well, they will still get blown up.

Concord can no longer be tanked or avoided unfortunately.


There's also the risk of nothing of value being dropped in a hauler gank. You also risk your looting ship being blown up, even moreso now that you have suspect flags for looting wrecks. There's also the risk of getting your hauler alt suicide ganked on the way to Jita while moving the loot.

Anybody who says this is "risk-free" is just posting fanfic. In the case of miner ganking, how can one argue that it's "risk-free" when you inherently operate at a loss when doing this? Even if it's sponsored by somebody else, somebody is taking a loss unless the secondary effects (i.e. the supply constraint and speculators driving the price of ice and isotopes up) outweigh that loss.

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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#154 - 2013-08-20 22:20:02 UTC
Andski wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
That's untrue. Miners RISK losing their ships. They MIGHT get blown up.

With suicide gankers there is no "might" unless there is no target. IF they do their job poorly, or well, they will still get blown up.

Concord can no longer be tanked or avoided unfortunately.


There's also the risk of nothing of value being dropped in a hauler gank. You also risk your looting ship being blown up, even moreso now that you have suspect flags for looting wrecks. There's also the risk of getting your hauler alt suicide ganked on the way to Jita while moving the loot.

Anybody who says this is "risk-free" is just posting fanfic. In the case of miner ganking, how can one argue that it's "risk-free" when you inherently operate at a loss when doing this? Even if it's sponsored by somebody else, somebody is taking a loss unless the secondary effects (i.e. the supply constraint and speculators driving the price of ice and isotopes up) outweigh that loss.


Its not really risk. Its the "cost of doing business". You know what you are going to pay upfront. There is the risk of failing, but generally that is not the case if you do your home work.

If you have say 15 catalysts at your disposal, there is little risk of failing to gank a retreiver for example. Unless you are all drunk and target each istead of the retreiver other for some odd reason.

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#155 - 2013-08-20 23:21:34 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Andski wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
That's untrue. Miners RISK losing their ships. They MIGHT get blown up.

With suicide gankers there is no "might" unless there is no target. IF they do their job poorly, or well, they will still get blown up.

Concord can no longer be tanked or avoided unfortunately.


There's also the risk of nothing of value being dropped in a hauler gank. You also risk your looting ship being blown up, even moreso now that you have suspect flags for looting wrecks. There's also the risk of getting your hauler alt suicide ganked on the way to Jita while moving the loot.

Anybody who says this is "risk-free" is just posting fanfic. In the case of miner ganking, how can one argue that it's "risk-free" when you inherently operate at a loss when doing this? Even if it's sponsored by somebody else, somebody is taking a loss unless the secondary effects (i.e. the supply constraint and speculators driving the price of ice and isotopes up) outweigh that loss.


Its not really risk. Its the "cost of doing business".


So is losing a mining ship in highsec.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#156 - 2013-08-20 23:28:07 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Unless you are all drunk and target each instead of the retreiver other for some odd reason.
Is there any other way to fly?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#157 - 2013-08-20 23:34:44 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Its not really risk. Its the "cost of doing business". You know what you are going to pay upfront. There is the risk of failing, but generally that is not the case if you do your home work.


Nonsense. If I fly a Sabre on a fleet op, I'm only risking that Sabre plus the value of my implants plus my clone cost. There is no way that I can lose more than that unless I don't update my clone.

By your arbitrary BS definition of "risk" every activity in this game is inherently risk-free because in every case you choose how much to put at risk and you simply don't lose more than that. That does not make sense.

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bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#158 - 2013-08-20 23:45:53 UTC
1- buy a LOT of ice
2- tell everyone you're going to gank every mining barge in caldari space.
3- people buy a lot of ice in Jita knowing price will increase
4- do not gank mining barge
5- sell your ice before price drop
6- profit

Better than Erotica 1's isk doubling.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#159 - 2013-08-21 00:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Andski wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Its not really risk. Its the "cost of doing business". You know what you are going to pay upfront. There is the risk of failing, but generally that is not the case if you do your home work.


Nonsense. If I fly a Sabre on a fleet op, I'm only risking that Sabre plus the value of my implants plus my clone cost. There is no way that I can lose more than that unless I don't update my clone.

By your arbitrary BS definition of "risk" every activity in this game is inherently risk-free because in every case you choose how much to put at risk and you simply don't lose more than that. That does not make sense.


I'm not sure if this is clear to you but when you run a fleet OP that there is an assumption that you may survive the event.

Whereas if you gank someone, you know that you will lose your ship. You aren't risking it, because risk assumes that there is some sort of possibility that you will suceed in not losing your ship.

Otherwise, it is like saying WWII Japanese Kamikaze risked their airplanes to hit American aircraft carriers. See that doesn't make sense. They intended goal was to lose their aircraft in the process of hitting the ship. That's not risk. It's intended consequenes. Risk assumes intended survivability.

If a Japanese Zero braved anti-arcraft guns to drop a bomb on an aircraft carrier and then fly home... Then you can say that the pilot risked his plane to bomb the target.

Ganking has no risk other than failure and with 15 catalysts this is 0%.

Dictionary.com defines risk as "exposure to the chance of injury or loss; a hazard or dangerous chance"

I bolded the word "chance" so you know that risk requires a chance which assumes possible survivability. When death or destructionis 100% guaranteed, then there is no risk, because it is outcome that has no chance of survivability.

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Mekkimaru
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2013-08-21 00:18:47 UTC
i too came looking for miner tears, seems they are still only in local

i always love me some grr goon posts though

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