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The Great Ice Mining Interdiction: Not so Great

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#101 - 2013-08-20 00:57:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Psychedelic Faynin wrote:
Love the propaganda.

Goonswarm Federation (CONDI)
RAZOR Alliance (-RZR-)
Fatal Ascension (-FA-)
Tactical Narcotics Team (TNT)
Fidelas Constans (FCON)
SpaceMonkey’s Alliance (SMA)
Executive Outcomes (.EXE)
Gentlemen's Agreement (GENTS)
Get Off My Lawn (LAWN)
Circle-Of-Two (CO2)
Li3 Federation (L3F)

as you can see on the wiki.

So you agree, then, that CFC is not the same as goons.

Quote:
Love how you take what I say out of context. Which is exactly anything you say means nothing.

Goons are a member of clusterfuck as posted on the wiki. Where is your proof?
My proof is in the wiki and in the simple fact that one thing being a subset of another is not equivalent to the other being a part of (or the whole of) the one. The proof was right in the post you quoted: A ⊂ B ≠ B ⊂ A

Oh, and I didn't take what you said out of context. I was merely being kind and quoted the part you got right.

Mara Rinn wrote:
The logistics boat perhaps. The ECM boat will need to have a very fast lock time and the pilot will need incredibly quick reflexes if they are going to jam a suicide ganking catalyst before the gank victim is blown up.

Oh, I don't know. Ewar ship tend to have fast lock times, and he needs luck more than quick reflexes, but that depends on how he chooses to spread the jams and what kind of ship he's in. A Rook with three SDAs will have a 100% jam chance against a non-ECCMed Catalyst (or with no SDAs if he overheats) so he could just go hog wild, and he should have 2s-ish lock times with a bit of sensor boosting.
Psychedelic Faynin
Doomheim
#102 - 2013-08-20 01:10:22 UTC
clusterfuck = goons + pets
Jayrod Tsutola
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#103 - 2013-08-20 01:12:13 UTC
For some reason I'm reminded of fifth grade math.

"All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares"

There was that one kid with their finger up their nose and they just didn't get it.

Good times.

I have a juicebox and apple that I will trade for a snackpack. Any takers?
Psychedelic Faynin
Doomheim
#104 - 2013-08-20 01:16:33 UTC
Jayrod Tsutola wrote:
For some reason I'm reminded of fifth grade math.

"All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares"

There was that one kid with their finger up their nose and they just didn't get it.

Good times.

I have a juicebox and apple that I will trade for a snackpack. Any takers?


Stupid is as stupid does. Seems some don't actually play the game, they play symantecs on the forums.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#105 - 2013-08-20 01:38:57 UTC
Dyvim Slorm wrote:

In other words its just a cost of doing business, not risk.


How is that any different from getting into (insert ship here) that you are willing to lose and undocking to (insert pvp activity). It's a calculated cost of doing business. If there is risk associated with your pvp you are doing it wrong. With ganking, it's just a guaranteed cost where otherwise you might get lucky and make it back to dock.

Arduemont wrote:

"omg suicide ganking does take some skilz!"

No, it really doesn't. It's all pre-calculated. Scan the ship first, warp in with one more catalyst than is strictly required (use a cloaked warp-to), blow them up and then dock up. Worried about ECM or logi? Why? It's not a viable tactic. Unless they baited you there, they are not going to have anything like that. As for people killing gankers, yea I do it myself if I can catch one. If you got caught then your a complete idiot.


Yup, it's dead easy. Undock, right click warp, lock, F1. Oh wait, that's mining.

Just scan the ship first - without spooking the prey.
But you can't just warp in you see. First you have to figure out how many to use. Hope he doesn't dock up and refit in the mean time. Sure you got the math right? It takes no skill. Just don't forget to include shield links. And armor links. And implants.
Then "just" warp in on a moving barge to your cloaked scout navigating between ships, drones and rocks. That part takes no skill either.

Then you get to lock and F1. Don't worry about that Falcon you never saw. You brought an extra catalyst. It will only jam out one.. per module. It doesn't even need SeBo's to lock a cat in 6 seconds. Your no skill math requires at least double that in dps time to get the kill.

Don't forget to get your pod out. It would suck making a couple mil split X+1 ways just to pay 5-10mil for a new med clone. Wait why the +1 again? Extra welp less profit and an extra share to split. I though the math is easy and there's no risk? Then why do you need to waste resources and bring an extra pilot in on it "just in case"?

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Psychedelic Faynin
Doomheim
#106 - 2013-08-20 01:41:56 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Dyvim Slorm wrote:

In other words its just a cost of doing business, not risk.


How is that any different from getting into (insert ship here) that you are willing to lose and undocking to (insert pvp activity). It's a calculated cost of doing business. If there is risk associated with your pvp you are doing it wrong. With ganking, it's just a guaranteed cost where otherwise you might get lucky and make it back to dock.

Arduemont wrote:

"omg suicide ganking does take some skilz!"

No, it really doesn't. It's all pre-calculated. Scan the ship first, warp in with one more catalyst than is strictly required (use a cloaked warp-to), blow them up and then dock up. Worried about ECM or logi? Why? It's not a viable tactic. Unless they baited you there, they are not going to have anything like that. As for people killing gankers, yea I do it myself if I can catch one. If you got caught then your a complete idiot.


Yup, it's dead easy. Undock, right click warp, lock, F1. Oh wait, that's mining.

Just scan the ship first - without spooking the prey.
But you can't just warp in you see. First you have to figure out how many to use. Hope he doesn't dock up and refit in the mean time. Sure you got the math right? It takes no skill. Just don't forget to include shield links. And armor links. And implants.
Then "just" warp in on a moving barge to your cloaked scout navigating between ships, drones and rocks. That part takes no skill either.

Then you get to lock and F1. Don't worry about that Falcon you never saw. You brought an extra catalyst. It will only jam out one.. per module. It doesn't even need SeBo's to lock a cat in 6 seconds. Your no skill math requires at least double that in dps time to get the kill.

Don't forget to get your pod out. It would suck making a couple mil split X+1 ways just to pay 5-10mil for a new med clone. Wait why the +1 again? Extra welp less profit and an extra share to split. I though the math is easy and there's no risk? Then why do you need to waste resources and bring an extra pilot in on it "just in case"?


That's what I call gaming.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#107 - 2013-08-20 01:44:21 UTC
You know you been drinking while playing too much when you think an ice belt is somehow going to top off your drink.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#108 - 2013-08-20 02:06:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Georgina Parmala
Psychedelic Faynin wrote:
clusterfuck = goons + Allies

And while all Goons are CFC members it does not follow that all CFC members are goons.

I'll give you a hint where you're bad at math beyond rectangles and squares. When you look at the attributes of a corporation it shows you how many characters are in it, not just the ones that are online. The login screen shows you how many accounts are currently logged in, not how many characters exist in the game.

Tippia wrote:

No. There are not 250,000 goons in the game.

It would have to be more than that to be half the server. As I recall there are about 500,000 active accounts. Which equates to probably somewhere between 1 and 1.5 million active characters on TQ.

250,000 would be quite a lowball for half the server. Even if we take CFC as a whole, assume all characters are active and assume there is an out-of-coalition goon alt for every listed member.

http://evewho.com/ lists 5,060,460 total Characters. That means there's 2.5 million goons out there I guess, and to say otherwise is goon pet propaganda.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#109 - 2013-08-20 02:08:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
That's it for me. "Psychedelic's" postings have me doing this right now before retiring. Good night.


edit: Actually, it's at this stage now.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#110 - 2013-08-20 02:12:29 UTC
Psychedelic Faynin wrote:
Jayrod Tsutola wrote:
For some reason I'm reminded of fifth grade math.

"All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares"

There was that one kid with their finger up their nose and they just didn't get it.

Good times.

I have a juicebox and apple that I will trade for a snackpack. Any takers?


Stupid is as stupid does. Seems some don't actually play the game, they play symantecs on the forums.


Semantics, just to be pydantec.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#111 - 2013-08-20 02:28:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Psychedelic Faynin wrote:
clusterfuck = goons + pets

Nope Clusterfuck = Goons (Grrr™) and people who temporarily have aims in alignment with those of Goonswarm, when that ceases to be the case some of those people will part ways and shoot each other in the face. It happened with their former BFFs TEST, it'll happen again with the CFC.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#112 - 2013-08-20 02:42:03 UTC
Why don't you {make a coalition that exists to destroy GSF} about it

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2013-08-20 02:44:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
Tippia wrote:
Psychedelic Faynin wrote:
Love the propaganda.

Goonswarm Federation (CONDI)
RAZOR Alliance (-RZR-)
Fatal Ascension (-FA-)
Tactical Narcotics Team (TNT)
Fidelas Constans (FCON)
SpaceMonkey’s Alliance (SMA)
Executive Outcomes (.EXE)
Gentlemen's Agreement (GENTS)
Get Off My Lawn (LAWN)
Circle-Of-Two (CO2)
Li3 Federation (L3F)

as you can see on the wiki.

So you agree, then, that CFC is not the same as goons.

Quote:
Love how you take what I say out of context. Which is exactly anything you say means nothing.

Goons are a member of clusterfuck as posted on the wiki. Where is your proof?
My proof is in the wiki and in the simple fact that one thing being a subset of another is not equivalent to the other being a part of (or the whole of) the one. The proof was right in the post you quoted: A ⊂ B ≠ B ⊂ A

Oh, and I didn't take what you said out of context. I was merely being kind and quoted the part you got right.

Mara Rinn wrote:
The logistics boat perhaps. The ECM boat will need to have a very fast lock time and the pilot will need incredibly quick reflexes if they are going to jam a suicide ganking catalyst before the gank victim is blown up.

Oh, I don't know. Ewar ship tend to have fast lock times, and he needs luck more than quick reflexes, but that depends on how he chooses to spread the jams and what kind of ship he's in. A Rook with three SDAs will have a 100% jam chance against a non-ECCMed Catalyst (or with no SDAs if he overheats) so he could just go hog wild, and he should have 2s-ish lock times with a bit of sensor boosting.

Tips, irregardless of all this, I must say that your patience is beyond saintly.


no really, I would've attempt to burn this thread hard with lighter fluid and hot plasma if I kept up like you're doing.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2013-08-20 02:57:31 UTC
Psychedelic Faynin wrote:
Seems some don't actually play the game, they play symantecs on the forums.


Wow...you almost *get* goons.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#115 - 2013-08-20 03:07:09 UTC
Some antics?

I'm always up for some antics!

Oh, semantics...

... never mind.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#116 - 2013-08-20 03:26:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
So you agree, then, that CFC is not the same as goons.


When The Mittani sends a coalition wide jabber ping and you act on it, it doesn't matter what your corporation, alliance or coalition name is: you are a servant of The Evil*.

*Demonisation of certain individuals is entirely for comedic effect and should not be construed as an opinion.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#117 - 2013-08-20 03:42:01 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Psychedelic Faynin wrote:
Seems some don't actually play the game, they play symantecs on the forums.

Wow...you almost *get* goons.

Now, let's try to understand reddit. It's about posting cat pictures and image macros, right?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#118 - 2013-08-20 04:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Psychedelic Faynin wrote:
Seems some don't actually play the game, they play symantecs on the forums.

Wow...you almost *get* goons.

Now, let's try to understand reddit. It's about posting cat pictures and image macros, right?

Reddit P

Some of the subreddits are actually pretty good.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2013-08-20 04:07:12 UTC
Dyvim Slorm wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:

... I guess clone costs add up when you don't use a throwaway alt.



If you're using a throwaway alt then the only risk is one of a known cost if it all goes wrong. Simply put, there is only the cost of the ship you will lose in a suicide gank versus the unknown return in loot from the destroyed ship.

In other words its just a cost of doing business, not risk.


Isnt that the case for the miner or hauler or whoever is getting ganked too though?

Everytime you undock, there is a chance you will be engaged at some point, everyone who plays EVE should know this.

That means when you go out mining or you are hauling stuff, it should be a calculated risk, you should always keep in mind that there is a chance your ship wont make it back safely.

So *The only risk is one of a known cost if it all goes wrong.* aplies to everyone, be it suicide gankers, miners or haulers.

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Daimon Kaiera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#120 - 2013-08-20 04:50:05 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rhes wrote:
Psychedelic Faynin wrote:
Seems some don't actually play the game, they play symantecs on the forums.

Wow...you almost *get* goons.

Now, let's try to understand reddit. It's about posting cat pictures and image macros, right?


YOSPOS is not Reddit.

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