Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Now, that being said, what is the problem in nerfing afk cloaking?

Oh but it does have the same effect and has been done to great effect. Then let's not forget it's the same effect that those pos'd and docked up hand out.

But I'm not saying that we should just change local, I'm pointing out that cloaks are not the issue here. Why should cloaks be nerfed, when they are not the mechanic being abused? How can you ignore the fact, that it's local that's giving you and others the problem?
You're basically advocating the the nerfing of one of the only counters to local (cloaking) and at the same time wanting to boost intel. How in any way, is this a balanced approach?

Also if there were to be a local change, why should we apply it to low sec? We in low sec don't have issues with AFK cloakers. If you want them gone, then you suffer the change.

Both ideas can co-exist. Local would be too powerful with a nerf to just cloaks. Really, Nikk has two threads for how to changes things and try to keep the game balanced. The simplest solution is to have cloaked ships disappear from local when cloaked, but they become huntable in some fashion (e.g. probes of some sort, maybe specialized ones so in a fleet fight if there is 1 guy with probes it is a choice...scan for cloakies--e.g. bombers, recons--or regular combat probes to scan for the main fleet). Now AFK cloaking is pointless and cloaks are once again viable hunter ships.

And it isn't a fight for dominance it is an attempt to show what the real issue is. Even CCP acknowledges this (well at least one dev).

https://twitter.com/erlendur/status/284995879482585088

That is the twitter feed of a CCP dev (i.e. CCP Explorer).



So what have you got? Nothing really. Us "local is the real problem" crowd have some ideas, maybe not great ones but at least we are trying. And we have a CCP Dev saying, in effect, "Local is the real problem."

I've given you all this information before. But you have ignored it in favor of focusing simply on a symptom of the OP nature of local and a symptom that to some extent balances out the OP Nature of local. In other words you want to nerf an in game item that is helping to keep game balance. Admittedly it isn't the best method, but right now, until local is changed, it is all we got.

I also suggest you read this:
http://interstellarprivateer.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/unbreaking-local/

It is long, and somewhat complicated...but so what, this is Eve, we don't do simple when we can do wildly complicated.

This is a bad idea. Makes everyone who doesn't want to take the risk to fit those new probes. How is it different from making the cloaker to use fuel?

Fixed it for you.


This thread has the most traction I've ever seen for this topic. You guys are doing some great work. Keep it up!!

That would be exactly those two links in my sig, right there (points down)

No, the cloaking device cap drain is pointless.

It will either be worked around, or outright replaced, since the actual source of this issue is not affected by it.

They explain how to eliminate AFK cloaking, and have more activity.

If AFK Cloaking is bad, why isn't sitting AFK in a POS or station bad as well? Many times I have flown about cloaked while scoping targets, and had to worry about how much response was available and how quick it would be. Is it fair that I should be subjected to that kind of worry? They are interfering with my PvP activities while not even playing the game! Unfair!

So many people arguing that AFK cloakers have almost all been logically fallacious (That's not to say there has not been lots of AFK cloaker butthurt too). The real problem is not local, it is not the cloak, rather it is how the cloak is used in this particular instance. Changing local int he ways claimed to "help" AFK cloakers by removing them from local does not fix the problem.... in fact, it makes cloakers AFK or not even more powerful. By removing cloaked ships from local, you are effectively making it not necessary to AFK cloak since no one would know you are in the system anyway. This would end up making cloaks MUCH more powerful, and although it would get rid of the AFK cloakers, it's like giving a thief a trillion dollars so he quits being a thief.

AFK cloakers are an issue because you can cause a psychological effect against a mass of players without any work on your own side, and effectively have no counter. EVE has many over powered strategies, but guess what, they are only "over powered" in certain scenarios. The glory of EVE is if you try and take on a long ranged fleet with a field advantage while in heavy short range brawlers, you will get non-consensually clusterf***ed. While on the other hand if that long range fleet gets caught by a short range brawling fleet while jumping through a gate, it can effectively be demolished. Do you see a trend here? EVE is about balance, but on a scope that is governed by the players. There are always counters designed to everything, and the devs usually thing this through well or at least try to. In the case of AFK cloakers, they break this dynamic COMPLETELY.

The idea that someone can spend a tiny amount of effort to set up an AFK cloaker, and then come back at random to light a cyno, or tackle someone for their friends next door provides a contradiction to the balance of EVE. If there were some way to actually counter cloaks, in this particular case a cloaker sitting in the same spot for hours, then it would be balanced. As of right now, there is no real way to counter a AFK cloaker until they come back to activity and tackle a target, or light a cyno which means they always have the upper hand.

I'm not saying I have the best answer on how to balance this since I LOVE cloaks when used for non AFK purposes. I love my bombers, even to the point of sitting patiently for quite a while for the right moment; I love cloaky recons being able to ACTIVELY tackle someone; I love cloaky covops probing and providing intel for fleets. By far I am against nerfing cloaks in general to keep them from being effective, but something needs to be done to mitigate the effectiveness of AFK cloakers WITHOUT hindering normal functions of cloaking. The problem? It's something very... VERY difficult to do. If you add a fuel requirement to the ships, and even added a fuel bay to make it easy for cloaked ships, you still run into the problem of adding a henderence to legit users. One possible solution would be not to use fuel, but require a cycling of the cloak every so often. To not deter normal cloaking gameplay (for people not AFK) this timer should be set fairly high given normal gameplay standards. Say for example the cloak must be cycled every hour, hell, even 2 hours. Such a long time may seem questionable, but think about it, how much would that effect your bombing runs? How much would that effect your cloaky recons? Do you SERIOUSLY stick in a system cloaked and probing down targets for 2 hours?(If you answered yes to the last one, get that man a medal made out of a waffle). However, the glory of such a cycle timer would be that AFK cloakers could not deal with cycling it that often. Sure they could come back for a couple hours and maybe get a couple cycles in, but they could not cycle it all through the night while they sleep, or all through the day while they are at work. I..... just thought of this on the fly while writing this article, and I have to say it's a curiously good idea so far. Can anyone provide a bit of feedback without going "RABLE RABLE RABLE NERF LOCAL" or "RABLE RABLE RABLE DON'T NERF CLOAK"?