Player Features and Ideas Discussion

My proposal is simple:

CCP modify current ECM modules to fit with other EWAR modules. Specifically ECM is now a generic module which uses the current multispectral module as the base. This new ECM module then may be loaded with scripts which change its functionality to be like current racial specific ECM (ie gravimetric jamming script).

Why? Because the following EWAR modules use scripts:

Sensor dampeners
HICtor bubble/infini point
Tracking disruptor

The following modules don't even need scripts or alternate modules:

Target painters
Stasis webifiers
Warp jammers

Now we must look at counters to these modules

• Sensor dampeners ---- Sebo
• HICtor bubble/infini point ---- no counter and rightly so.
• Tracking disruptor ---- Tracking computer
• Target painters ---- no counter
• Stasis webifiers ---- prop modules
• Warp jammers ---- warb core stabs.

None of the above examples require a % chance of being applied or of being negated. They are always in effect and always active. Specifically let's look at some numbers.

• Sensor damp with script on an unbonused hull = -42.5% scan res
• TD with script = -47.8%

Local ECCM to counter are Sebo and TC/TE so let's look at them

• TC - 15% bonus no script - with script 30% spread over 1 or 2 attributes relative to script.
• TE - net bonuses 45% - no single stat over 20%
• Sebo - 30% flat to two stats - 60% with scripts.

This is without considering NOS/Neut ships either.

Now we look at ECM and ECCM
ECM is more effective against smaller targets than large targets and ECCM less effective on small targets and more on large targets. This is part of what makes it hard to say if it's imbalanced or not, but... ECCM. Is unbalanced against ECM directly. 196% or a net 96% increase to your sensor strength if you fit one. You only fit the module appropriate to your race. ECM is a group of 5 modules that need to be fit specifically for the opponent in advance and are penalised if the incorrect choice is made. This is unlike any other form of module from the EWAR selection, infact it's a slap in the face compared to target painters especially which don't even have a counter. There is no module in the game other than ECCM that makes it literally twice as hard to have your EWAR work. A fully bonused falcon gets only 13.5 or so jam points from a racial specific jammer but if I fit my cruiser with an ECCM I get 30+ sensor strength. It triples the need for ECM and for merely one module is horribly imbalanced.

Making ECM modules a single module with scripts will go a long way to fixing the un-necessary and draconian penalties that ECM pilots face. It fixes an internal imbalance against other EWAR that don't exist anywhere else in the game.

I just fought an SFI that had a sensor strength of 90. NINETY. In a fully bonused rook. What the hell am I meant to do against this ship? Even a ship with 10 sebos will still be negatively affected by damps.

I call shenanigans on your logic.

Rofl. If you were fighting a SFI with a sensor strength of 90 he will have had multiple mods to boost his sensor strength. 2 mid slot ECCM with some links will take you over that. Or without the links you could just overheat.
So that'd leave a SFI with 2 mid slots. Which lets image might be a prop mod and tackle. He'd have been highly vulnerable to other e-war. ECM is chance based anyway so you should have still got the odd jam in.

You cannot seriously expect an ECM ship to be able to guarantee jams against a ship that is fitting lots of extra mods to guarantee it doesn't? If a ship is fitting lots of counters does it not occur to you that maybe you should try a different tactic? Do you sit and complain for hours whilst shooting lasers at a T2 minmatar ship suggesting lasers need to get given 500% damage so you can actually do more than tickle there 90% em resist? Should have brought a friend in a damp ship to help him potentially lose that all important lock he must have had on your poor Rook.

Go jam someone else?

Sensor dampeners can in effect 100% lock you out for longer. a Maulus with 3 sensor dampeners will make most ships have a lock on of less than 10km. For under 20M isk (maulus + modules), I can make any hull besides a fast frigate unable to target anything but really close stuff.

Here is how ECCM works,
chance to jam = Jam strength/target's sensor strength.

So, a ECCM module effectively halves your chance. If you have 13 points of jam, and you are hitting a BS with about 26 points of sensor strength, you have a 50/50 chance. if that BS used a mid for ECCM, now it is a 25% chance. It seems rather balanced to me. ECCM is useless unless someone is jamming you. Sensor boosters have use outside countering sensor dampeners, same with tracking computers.

If anything, sensor dampeners are over powered compared to ECM and should be nerfed instead of boosting ECM.

ECM is balanced. Proof

If you want to change how ECM functions it needs to be 3 things: Not to be chance based, effective and balanced. If you can find a solution that is all three you will have a lot of support in the community to replace ECM.

Sorry dude, you seem to be mistaking me for someone who has a massive problem with your idea and is trying to suggest you are wrong. That's not the case.
Personally I'd be more than happy for ECCM to be made weaker (or ECM stronger - whichever) if there wasn't a 20 second lockout time.

You only need a single jam from a single ECM module to completely take a ship out of the game for 20 seconds and potentially completely change the field of battle.

My corp lost 2x guardians running dual ECCM earlier in the week due to one of them being perma jammed by a Falcon (and maybe some drones too) meaning no cap chain. That was the way the dice rolled that day even with ~90 sensor strength.

Taking your example of using 7x Ladar Jammers, to get 91 points of jam against the 90 sensor strength - based on the strengths there atleast one of your jammers should jam him every cycle. Take a more realistic (rounded for maths simplicity) example of you having say 30 jam strength, that'll still work out as 20 seconds of jam time every minute. That's still pretty hefty all things considered.

You are expecting to be able to guarantee jams on a chance based mechanic.

My personal thought on ECM/ECCM is that it needs to be completely ripped from the game with it's current mechanics and rebuilt. It's too on/off at the moment. If there wasn't a 20 second jam if you got caught (lets say 5 secs instead) I'd be more than happy in making ECCM worse. It's pretty horrible thinking how to try and balance it.

At the end of the day all of the E-War can be absolutely deadly against the right ship.

So... you have ONE trick up your sleeve. Your enemy knows you are there, and fits to counter. He comes to you and you think you have the fight in the bag like you're so used to. This is what happens in Eve. Sounds like "working as intended" to me.

Wondering if this thread qualifies as tears from someone losing their Rook in a fight they feel they should not have lost...

Why do you think it should work out favorably? He fit his ship specifically to counter yours.

Besides the fact that:
1) His modules didn't nullify yours, they simply rendered them less effective (from 70%/cycle to 17%/cycle (which is a 70% chance of having at least one of 7 jams land)
2) His fit was designed to specifically counter yours, and left him vulnerable to any number of other fits you could have brought,

You may want to put some more thought into it before issuing trivial challenges.

[Devoter, One Module]

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Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script
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[Impel, 7 Modules (And a Hull Bonus)]

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We may aswell script these guys as well:

Target Painter:

[Script] Focused Signature Script
+ 50% Modification of Signature Radius Bonus
- 50% Modification of Optimal Range

[Script] Optimal Painting Script
+ 50% Modification of Optimal Range
- 50% Modification of Signature Radius Bonus

Stasis Webifiers:

[Script] Focused Immobility Driving
+ 50% Modification of Max Velocity Bonus
- 50% Modification of Optimal Range

[Script] Ranged Webifying Script
+ 50% Modification of Optimal Range
- 50% Modification of Max Velocity Bonus

Warp Jammers:

[Script] Focused Interdiction Script
- 50% Modification of Activation Cost
- 50% Modification of Optimal Range
+ 1 Modification of Warp Scramble Strength

[Script] Optimal Interdiction Script
+ 50% Modification of Optimal Range
+ 100% Modification of Activation Cost