These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

A crusade for low sec between all empires
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-11-12 05:23:25 UTC
Wasnt their something similar like this AGES AND AGES ago and one corp just camped the system and it was very hard to get through? The corp was Mo0 or M0o or something

Some bittervet will know

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Stan Smith
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-11-12 05:24:04 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Lets see what would happen.

All freighter traffic would stop.
Most trade will stop.
perpetual gate camps in the low sec.

yeah good way to kill the game.


pretty much this.

this is kind of like the "make jita 0.0" argument. it's never gonna happen. if they make jita 0.0, then the new trade hub will be new caldari or perimeter or something

☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-11-12 05:24:46 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:

What I think COULD happen is escort convoys through low sec, who knows. It was an idea, I'll write up something more formal in the F&I forums.

AG


Your thoughts demonstrate a poor understanding of the game. If you realized how slim the profit margins on manufacture were you would realize that your escort (through what would likely be the worst gate-camps low can provide) would have to work for pennies. In reality what would happen is that folks like me would use JFs to capitalize on regional differences in the cost of goods to make a profit. Younger players would get blown up the first few times they tried to visit the Empire next door and restrict their play to local. End result would be a smaller even duller HiSec and a few cheap laughs for the yartards. Because there is nothing in Low so it will always be flyover country to market and industry players.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-11-12 05:25:48 UTC
Stan Smith wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Lets see what would happen.

All freighter traffic would stop.
Most trade will stop.
perpetual gate camps in the low sec.

yeah good way to kill the game.


pretty much this.

this is kind of like the "make jita 0.0" argument. it's never gonna happen. if they make jita 0.0, then the new trade hub will be new caldari or perimeter or something

Dod. Really they are not far behind Jita as is.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Lord Mandelor
Oruze Cruise
White Stag Exit Bag
#25 - 2011-11-12 05:27:14 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
Wasnt their something similar like this AGES AND AGES ago and one corp just camped the system and it was very hard to get through? The corp was Mo0 or M0o or something

Some bittervet will know


Yep. It took CCP leading a fleet of CONCORD ships to drive them out after they sat there two weeks undefeated racking up thousands of kills.
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris
#26 - 2011-11-12 05:35:41 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
Wasnt their something similar like this AGES AND AGES ago and one corp just camped the system and it was very hard to get through? The corp was Mo0 or M0o or something

Some bittervet will know


from the wiki

Developer Interaction

The 'm0o situation' got so big, that developers were forced to intervene on several occasions. A few weeks into the camp, a force of developer-controlled CONCORD battleships arrived in Mara. m0o pilots were quick to escape, although one brave pilot, The Reverend, made the decision of going up against the attacking force. His cruiser was destroyed in a single shot. This is the only reported incident of developers interacting with the playerbase in such a manner, and is widely regarded as having been a bad decision.

Another instance of developer interaction occurred when m0o pilots camping a gate in Mara were transferred to seemingly random locations in space. The reasoning behind this decision is still unknown, and the effect did not last for long as the m0o pilots were back in Mara a few hours later.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#27 - 2011-11-12 05:44:59 UTC
JitaJane wrote:
Apollo Gabriel wrote:

What I think COULD happen is escort convoys through low sec, who knows. It was an idea, I'll write up something more formal in the F&I forums.

AG


Your thoughts demonstrate a poor understanding of the game. If you realized how slim the profit margins on manufacture were you would realize that your escort (through what would likely be the worst gate-camps low can provide) would have to work for pennies. In reality what would happen is that folks like me would use JFs to capitalize on regional differences in the cost of goods to make a profit. Younger players would get blown up the first few times they tried to visit the Empire next door and restrict their play to local. End result would be a smaller even duller HiSec and a few cheap laughs for the yartards. Because there is nothing in Low so it will always be flyover country to market and industry players.



I'll give you the fact that I've laid out VERY few details here and if there were only a couple bottlenecks we'd agree totally. However if there were many paths through low sec, with very few bottlenecks then it could be doable. I've done a LOT of low profit manufacturing and given the right volume of sales, I'd personally take the risk. Would others? who knows.

The core of the idea is to allow the HS island to be less "stone" and more sand.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#28 - 2011-11-12 06:17:03 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
JitaJane wrote:
Apollo Gabriel wrote:

What I think COULD happen is escort convoys through low sec, who knows. It was an idea, I'll write up something more formal in the F&I forums.

AG


Your thoughts demonstrate a poor understanding of the game. If you realized how slim the profit margins on manufacture were you would realize that your escort (through what would likely be the worst gate-camps low can provide) would have to work for pennies. In reality what would happen is that folks like me would use JFs to capitalize on regional differences in the cost of goods to make a profit. Younger players would get blown up the first few times they tried to visit the Empire next door and restrict their play to local. End result would be a smaller even duller HiSec and a few cheap laughs for the yartards. Because there is nothing in Low so it will always be flyover country to market and industry players.



I'll give you the fact that I've laid out VERY few details here and if there were only a couple bottlenecks we'd agree totally. However if there were many paths through low sec, with very few bottlenecks then it could be doable. I've done a LOT of low profit manufacturing and given the right volume of sales, I'd personally take the risk. Would others? who knows.

The core of the idea is to allow the HS island to be less "stone" and more sand.

Not even bottlenecks man. Look if you are making moderate income by that I mean enough that making the jumps pays better then spending the same time knocking out a mission you're looking at a freighter load. Only a moron would take their freighter through a patch of lowsec. Now JF will go hi-hi no risk all profit. Your only real concern is that the profit margin is going to be enough to cover fuel. And if it is not enough to cove fuel it is certainly not enough to hire an escort. I'd like to see more low pop in the game. But trying to trick or coerce it is not the path.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#29 - 2011-11-12 06:42:14 UTC
JitaJane wrote:
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
JitaJane wrote:
Apollo Gabriel wrote:

What I think COULD happen is escort convoys through low sec, who knows. It was an idea, I'll write up something more formal in the F&I forums.

AG


Your thoughts demonstrate a poor understanding of the game. If you realized how slim the profit margins on manufacture were you would realize that your escort (through what would likely be the worst gate-camps low can provide) would have to work for pennies. In reality what would happen is that folks like me would use JFs to capitalize on regional differences in the cost of goods to make a profit. Younger players would get blown up the first few times they tried to visit the Empire next door and restrict their play to local. End result would be a smaller even duller HiSec and a few cheap laughs for the yartards. Because there is nothing in Low so it will always be flyover country to market and industry players.



I'll give you the fact that I've laid out VERY few details here and if there were only a couple bottlenecks we'd agree totally. However if there were many paths through low sec, with very few bottlenecks then it could be doable. I've done a LOT of low profit manufacturing and given the right volume of sales, I'd personally take the risk. Would others? who knows.

The core of the idea is to allow the HS island to be less "stone" and more sand.

Not even bottlenecks man. Look if you are making moderate income by that I mean enough that making the jumps pays better then spending the same time knocking out a mission you're looking at a freighter load. Only a moron would take their freighter through a patch of lowsec. Now JF will go hi-hi no risk all profit. Your only real concern is that the profit margin is going to be enough to cover fuel. And if it is not enough to cove fuel it is certainly not enough to hire an escort. I'd like to see more low pop in the game. But trying to trick or coerce it is not the path.


Ok we agree freighters in low sec = bad, but last I checked there were other ways to move ships. I'm not saying launch this thing tomorrow but I'm discussing the hypothetical situation, so WHAT would be needed? A higher tank higher capacity Indy? hell idk, lots to be disucssed before then.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#30 - 2011-11-12 07:50:50 UTC
I like the idea of kicking Concord out of 0.5 systems while significantly augmenting their gate guns. (Still no capital ships, though.)

Maybe there's a flaw with that idea, but SOME sort of mechanic that results in a hi-sec/low-sec hybrid in 0.5 would be good. Maybe even if it means multiple gates (if they are camping gate#1, use gate#2.)
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#31 - 2011-11-12 10:06:41 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
yeah this is the wrong forum, but no one else seems to respect the spoon system so there ...

Make FW connected to the HS pathways from empire to empire region. You want pvp, make it so there is no HS route from Amarr to Jita unless FW pilots can secure one or some other madness.

Let's get REAL PVP here, none of this "oh look they let us kick these guys in the nutz unlike other games, so we call it pvp!"


REAL PVP what is that... Roll

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Crucis Cassiopeiae
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2011-11-12 11:23:28 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
yeah this is the wrong forum, but no one else seems to respect the spoon system so there ...

Make FW connected to the HS pathways from empire to empire region. You want pvp, make it so there is no HS route from Amarr to Jita unless FW pilots can secure one or some other madness.

Let's get REAL PVP here, none of this "oh look they let us kick these guys in the nutz unlike other games, so we call it pvp!"



I am all for this... i wrote about this before...
but not 4 parts and low sec between it... make it 2 parts... we know that 2 factions are in coalition against other 2 factions... so between 2 factions in coalition there is now war zone and there for no low sec...
so caldary and amarr on one side then low sec and gallente and minmatar on the other side...

This would make EVE much more interesting... low sec trade routes created... and FW army could secure some part of low sec and make it high sec for some time... more ganking... more tactics... and more realism (how the hell factions in war have borders without combat zones)...

Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 
Alara IonStorm
#33 - 2011-11-12 12:38:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:

REAL PVP what is that... Roll

15 Guys on a Gate Popping Noobs in unfit haulers.

Real Trade Alliances will form a gang and fight the pirates pre scout routes in Cov Ops or use Jump Freighters and Blockade Runners to bypass PvP while people just traveling between empires will scout using Cov Op's alts or travel using Cov Op's and have a secondary ship waiting.

Basically the only thing that would increase is camps ganking scrubs with low SP.
JitaJane
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-11-12 18:23:27 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
JitaJane wrote:
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
JitaJane wrote:
Apollo Gabriel wrote:

What I think COULD happen is escort convoys through low sec, who knows. It was an idea, I'll write up something more formal in the F&I forums.

AG


Your thoughts demonstrate a poor understanding of the game. If you realized how slim the profit margins on manufacture were you would realize that your escort (through what would likely be the worst gate-camps low can provide) would have to work for pennies. In reality what would happen is that folks like me would use JFs to capitalize on regional differences in the cost of goods to make a profit. Younger players would get blown up the first few times they tried to visit the Empire next door and restrict their play to local. End result would be a smaller even duller HiSec and a few cheap laughs for the yartards. Because there is nothing in Low so it will always be flyover country to market and industry players.



I'll give you the fact that I've laid out VERY few details here and if there were only a couple bottlenecks we'd agree totally. However if there were many paths through low sec, with very few bottlenecks then it could be doable. I've done a LOT of low profit manufacturing and given the right volume of sales, I'd personally take the risk. Would others? who knows.

The core of the idea is to allow the HS island to be less "stone" and more sand.

Not even bottlenecks man. Look if you are making moderate income by that I mean enough that making the jumps pays better then spending the same time knocking out a mission you're looking at a freighter load. Only a moron would take their freighter through a patch of lowsec. Now JF will go hi-hi no risk all profit. Your only real concern is that the profit margin is going to be enough to cover fuel. And if it is not enough to cove fuel it is certainly not enough to hire an escort. I'd like to see more low pop in the game. But trying to trick or coerce it is not the path.


Ok we agree freighters in low sec = bad, but last I checked there were other ways to move ships. I'm not saying launch this thing tomorrow but I'm discussing the hypothetical situation, so WHAT would be needed? A higher tank higher capacity Indy? hell idk, lots to be disucssed before then.

90% of of the time my posts are about something I actually find interesting and want to learn more about. Do not be alarmed.

Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-11-12 19:59:26 UTC
The real question is why there would be lowsec sections surrounding each factions space. It would have to be a good reason, and since Concord runs that show, it would take something catastrophic.

Even if it happened, the result would ultimately be four faction islands that stay pretty much to themselves in terms of player travel.
"If."
Aldan Romar
Doomheim
#36 - 2011-11-12 20:01:13 UTC
Gogela wrote:
No way. Do you know how much volume moves around this through the empire routes? I mean... to be fair I couldn't fathom a guess... but having just sat in empire choke-points cargo scanning ships... I think it's got to be a crazy huge number. Jita is a hungry market... it needs to feed....
Empire trade and Jita exist because there are safe(ish) routes. The map influences trade routes and trade hubs, not vice versa. If there were no highsec routes, we would get four major highsec markets and Jita would loose part of it's significance (see what happended to Yulai).
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#37 - 2011-11-12 20:05:42 UTC
I support this, its an old idea and I like it. Many wont.

It would encourage EACH EMPIRE TO HAVE ITS OWN ECONOMY! Wow , what a contraversial thught eh? Can you imagine? That is actually how it should be. Market pvp would be bigger, hauling form one mepire to another would actually be a viable income source and a career path. Peopel would form up and defend trade routes. Pirates would try to pirate those routes, but as long as there wernt any choke points and plenty of access then it would be fine.

This would actually increase diversity and encourage a more favction based idealogy i believe.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#38 - 2011-11-12 20:36:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
1: Give FW a purpose. Allow faction warfare to influence the security status of low sec systems. If FW militia's could change the security status of low sec systems based on their combat successes, or simply keeping opposing militia's forces out of certain systems, high sec routes between empires could be secured (at least for a time).

2: Secure a route and commerce flows, lose control of that route and commerce becomes more localized until that situation changes. This also gives the common citizen a reason to become invested, to care, about the failures and successes of their local militia.

3: This also allows FW pilots a much larger scope. Not only are their actions affecting other FW pilots, but are also affecting the lives and economy of not only their own people but the people living in area's they are in active conflict with.

4: The map and the current highway system (if you don't know what that is, look up Yulai) encourages creation of the single market hub (Jita) and a much flatter and less competitive market. This is an artificial situation created several years ago to deal with server limitations in high traffic area's. These limitations are no longer needed.

5: A stronger reliance on local assets and market centers encourages a diverse economy, and open huge possibilities to make a profit in other markets (if you can get to them) on items that are common place in your home systems.

6: If you have area's of low security space between the empires, the entire economy is stimulated. Lower skilled pilots fuel the local markets, high skilled pilots are able to take advantage of the higher profit (and riskier) foreign markets.

7: You are no longer forced to fly to Jita if you want to find a good selection and competitive pricing. Some items will become harder to find, but racial variants native to your area become more widely available (not automatically shipped to Jita). Ship fittings across EVE become more varied depending on your location.

8: Combat begins to have much more significance for those that wish to participate, whether they be FW pilots, pirates, or common citizens making a bid for higher profits. If the market becomes to restrictive in your area, pressure increases to force and secure a high sec route to other area's.

9: Make sure there are low sec area's between allied empires. This allows opposing forces the opportunity to restrict trade between them for a time. Obviously allied FW forces will be more easily able to repel those attacks if they work together.

10: Low Sec finally begins to have a significant and realistic purpose.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Lexmana
#39 - 2011-11-12 20:41:19 UTC
Quote:
make it so there is no HS route from Amarr to Jita unless FW pilots can secure one or some other madness.


OP has a point. I believe teh FW part means that by clearing som FW objectives lowsec could be made into highsec again.

This would bring meaning to Faction Warfare and create incentive to defend parts of lowsec so that trade routes could be kept open. And it creates incentive to close trade routes for traders that have a stock of imported stuff in their hangar.

Thumbs up!
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#40 - 2011-11-12 20:47:26 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
1: Give FW a purpose. Allow faction warfare to influence the security status of low sec systems. If FW militia's could change the security status of low sec systems based on their combat successes, or simply keeping opposing militia's forces out of certain systems, high sec routes between empires could be secured (at least for a time).

2: Secure a route and commerce flows, lose control of that route and commerce becomes more localized until that situation changes. This also gives the common citizen a reason to become invested, to care, about the failures and successes of their local militia.

3: This also allows FW pilots a much larger scope. Not only are their actions affecting other FW pilots, but are also affecting the lives and economy of not only their own people but the people living in area's they are in active conflict with.

4: The map and the current highway system (if you don't know what that is, look up Yulai) encourages creation of the single market hub (Jita) and a much flatter and less competitive market. This is an artificial situation created several years ago to deal with server limitations in high traffic area's. These limitations are no longer needed.

5: A stronger reliance on local assets and market centers encourages a diverse economy, and open huge possibilities to make a profit in other markets (if you can get to them) on items that are common place in your home systems.

6: If you have area's of low security space between the empires, the entire economy is stimulated. Lower skilled pilots fuel the local markets, high skilled pilots are able to take advantage of the higher profit (and riskier) foreign markets.

7: You are no longer forced to fly to Jita if you want to find a good selection and competitive pricing. Some items will become harder to find, but racial variants native to your area become more widely available (not automatically shipped to Jita). Ship fittings across EVE become more varied depending on your location.

8: Combat begins to have much more significance for those that wish to participate, whether they be FW pilots, pirates, or common citizens making a bid for higher profits. If the market becomes to restrictive in your area, pressure increases to force and secure a high sec route to other area's.

9: Make sure there are low sec area's between allied empires. This allows opposing forces the opportunity to restrict trade between them for a time. Obviously allied FW forces will be more easily able to repel those attacks if they work together.

10: Low Sec finally begins to have a significant and realistic purpose.


So many great points here and above, I love the community at times!

I'd even settle for a way to take away concord's immunity for a system via quests or similar, hell it could be tied to Sansha crap for all I care. Make it VERY clear what is happening and that it is coming up, the system remains 0.5 etc and becomes Concord Tankable etc.

I'll write some of this up and get it going in F&I
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Previous page123Next page