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Do you know what really grinds my gears?

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LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#61 - 2013-08-14 03:08:14 UTC
These emotional responses when trading which causes so called elite traders to try and trash the price on items amuses me, please do more of it.

Lets consider some likely scenarios.

I move stock which I bought at jita buy price into a regional hub system to sell for 30% - 50% because I'm like that, I like to do some hauling to other hubs because it makes me some profit slowly over time while I'm also station trading in jita. Some clown tries to undercut the price down, I now have some options a my disposal, I an either A. Undercut them and accept a much lower profit because I don't care. B. Depending on how low they are selling it, buy all their stock haul it to any major hub and sell for almost instant profit (I love that one Lol) C. Acquire a whole big stack of them for dirt cheap, which is easy to do believe me, and sell them for 0.5% jita sell price, totally ******* them over and laugh my arse off (also one of my favourites)

So a trader tries to sell for a much lower price in jita, I either log an alt and check major hub systems or I use out of game tools to find one where I can sell those items for profit, I then buy the entire stack, put it into my blockade runner, haul the goods, contract to an alt and place them on the market, I profit every time, I win always Cool

Trader in jita tries to outbid by a much higher amount.... if its higher than any of the other hubs or I can find a nice big stack, I'll use an alt to purchase from somewhere else, I'll haul it to jita, then I'll give them their items, sooner or later i'm gonna deplete their wallet and they will be stuck with a large stack of them...
LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#62 - 2013-08-14 03:25:55 UTC  |  Edited by: LittleTerror
Besides that, I'll just let them burn them selves out and wait till the price returns to where it should be, that is what the graph is for to help determine the min/max, often I just place orders and go afk or to bed. Then when I wake up i have a hanger full of stuff to resell, or most of my sell orders have been sold, the prices fluctuate between 2 points during the day, you can literally see using mentat or some other tool the total volumes from all the sell orders and buy orders decreasing at certain points of the day. Then you can predict roughly where the lowest sell price and highest sell prices will be, then you can setup your orders and forget about them because sooner or later those aggressive traders orders are going to be filled pretty much all in one go.

When that happens your order will periodically appear on top until filled.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#63 - 2013-08-14 03:34:21 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
I profit every time, I win always Cool



Is that a competition? where do i register as a winner?

You seem to think everyone buys stuff at your price. when im fact i bought it 2 weeks ago for half the price, what now?

you also think you are amazing, and the fact that you talk about achivments like earning 454mil and hauling stacks in BR, just proves you are dealing with nickels and dimes. you aren't worth explaining to you where you are wrong.

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#64 - 2013-08-14 04:43:27 UTC
Gazzy Mendelions wrote:
So, I'm a successful station trader making about 2 bil a month.

I love station trading as it brings in the iskies, but there is one part about it that I can't stand,
The IDIOT station traders who try to strong-arm the market to sell/buy an item quicker who really are destroying the profits on the market.

Here's my message to you:

STRONG-ARMING THE MARKET DOESN'T WORK. SOMEONE IS JUST GOING TO BUY/SELL IT MORE MORE/LESS BY 0.01 ISK. AND IN THE END, YOU'RE JUST DESTORYING THE PROFIT FOR OTHER PEOPLE.



Hi, my name is Umar, and I approve of this message.
LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#65 - 2013-08-14 06:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: LittleTerror
arabella blood wrote:
LittleTerror wrote:
I profit every time, I win always Cool



Is that a competition? where do i register as a winner?

You seem to think everyone buys stuff at your price. when im fact i bought it 2 weeks ago for half the price, what now?

you also think you are amazing, and the fact that you talk about achivments like earning 454mil and hauling stacks in BR, just proves you are dealing with nickels and dimes. you aren't worth explaining to you where you are wrong.



The amount of isk I have makes no difference to what I said... The fact I can double my wallet every day is what makes the difference and if you only trade in jita with 10 alts, you're just too short sighted I guess...

Also I clearly haven't been sat in jita for the past year or so, I'm here now to make some isk, last 24 hour stats from 282 mill starting capital after plex purchase, 238 mil profit end balance 520 mil, not too shabby considering my starting isk :). Bought a BR, and about 200 mil of stuff to haul to some other location to sell for 50% profit. There is nothing on the market there but there are lvl 3 and lvl 4 security agents and people with needs, its not gonna be nickels and dimes when I stock up 10 similar locations every day :)

Of course though, you have so much isk, you can probably afford a loss from time to time, or just buy up lots of stuff at one price and sell 2 weeks later, this I understand and I'd probably do it my self if i had the isk to do it.
Grozen
Mateber Mining and Manufacturing Company
C U L T
#66 - 2013-08-14 08:14:37 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Grozen wrote:
I know some dudes bought some of my stuff about 10bils worth and after a month and half they still haven't re-sold it because the price of said item is 160% lower than before and this is the case with many traders and also best case scenario if you want to drive someone out of your market.If you lock their money they got two options:
1.Harakiri
2.Buy plex.

I don't mind undercutting by 100m if i sell faster.Time=money.

So if it's 160% lower, does that mean they pay you 60% of the original price to take the item?
There is a 3rd option by the way: cut the loss, sell as best as you can then reinvest.
And usually if you undercut by 100m, you will be selling to resellers that will make a good profit. You can't undercut many items by 100m and get a good deal, so unless the price is unusually inflated, you're selling too low.


You guessed correct, the price was indeed super inflated 340% above the original infact, and the best thing is that it wasn't due to speculation or anything else, it was simple demand mechanics.

Then it all comes down to being at the right place in the right time and if those people were smart they would have checked volume and price history....but we're l33t traders.Now if I make a huge profit selling why would I want to keep price at the same inflated level for few hours knowing very well that in just a matter of hours someone else its going to lower it maybe bit slower than me?I'd rather crash it myself and lock them as fast I can so that their money stays out of their pockets than leave them a window to exit.

knowledge is power.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#67 - 2013-08-14 08:28:04 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
arabella blood wrote:
LittleTerror wrote:
I profit every time, I win always Cool



Is that a competition? where do i register as a winner?

You seem to think everyone buys stuff at your price. when im fact i bought it 2 weeks ago for half the price, what now?

you also think you are amazing, and the fact that you talk about achivments like earning 454mil and hauling stacks in BR, just proves you are dealing with nickels and dimes. you aren't worth explaining to you where you are wrong.



The amount of isk I have makes no difference to what I said... The fact I can double my wallet every day is what makes the difference and if you only trade in jita with 10 alts, you're just too short sighted I guess...

Also I clearly haven't been sat in jita for the past year or so, I'm here now to make some isk, last 24 hour stats from 282 mill starting capital after plex purchase, 238 mil profit end balance 520 mil, not too shabby considering my starting isk :). Bought a BR, and about 200 mil of stuff to haul to some other location to sell for 50% profit. There is nothing on the market there but there are lvl 3 and lvl 4 security agents and people with needs, its not gonna be nickels and dimes when I stock up 10 similar locations every day :)

Of course though, you have so much isk, you can probably afford a loss from time to time, or just buy up lots of stuff at one price and sell 2 weeks later, this I understand and I'd probably do it my self if i had the isk to do it.


We all had that time when doubling our total was a goal. Doubling 250mil in short time is not impressive. Doubling the larger amounts is hard, hope you can see why. That why we prefer different metrics when we have bigger sums.
I usually go with time/money formula. How much isk i can make with the smallest effort possible.

Thats why i dont care so much for hauling, i just dont like it and its too much effort.

You see, screaming "i win" when we arent even in the same category is funny.

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#68 - 2013-08-14 09:42:46 UTC
I tried to measure my profits when 0.01 isking and undercutting by 10% of [profit or so. Strong undercutting proved to result in much greater turnover and even bigger profits. Because 0.01 isk morons will often try to wait you out or you drive them of the market. And i am not talking about trillion business i traded with something like 3bil invested. 0.01 isking is for bots anyway.
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#69 - 2013-08-14 10:34:44 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
arabella blood wrote:
LittleTerror wrote:
I profit every time, I win always Cool



Is that a competition? where do i register as a winner?

You seem to think everyone buys stuff at your price. when im fact i bought it 2 weeks ago for half the price, what now?

you also think you are amazing, and the fact that you talk about achivments like earning 454mil and hauling stacks in BR, just proves you are dealing with nickels and dimes. you aren't worth explaining to you where you are wrong.



The amount of isk I have makes no difference to what I said... The fact I can double my wallet every day is what makes the difference and if you only trade in jita with 10 alts, you're just too short sighted I guess...

Also I clearly haven't been sat in jita for the past year or so, I'm here now to make some isk, last 24 hour stats from 282 mill starting capital after plex purchase, 238 mil profit end balance 520 mil, not too shabby considering my starting isk :). Bought a BR, and about 200 mil of stuff to haul to some other location to sell for 50% profit. There is nothing on the market there but there are lvl 3 and lvl 4 security agents and people with needs, its not gonna be nickels and dimes when I stock up 10 similar locations every day :)

Of course though, you have so much isk, you can probably afford a loss from time to time, or just buy up lots of stuff at one price and sell 2 weeks later, this I understand and I'd probably do it my self if i had the isk to do it.


Here's the lol noobie: I get that proflit level by strong-arming, in 15 minutes. Top that.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

SJ Astralana
Syncore
#70 - 2013-08-14 10:38:52 UTC
Kraillach wrote:
SJ Astralana wrote:
I see often enough the price of an item below my minimum dive bomb, the competition crap each other out, and the price spikes right back to my price point.


same as what i do.

if iv got a stack and the prices get progressively lower to the point where its no longer profitable for me to trade it then ill remove the stack, place that item on my watch list then check it every few days.

all items i've been doing this for come back around to my liked profit levels eventually. may take a day or a week but they get there and then i put up the sell order again.



Why unlist your stack??? You've lost your listing fees. The only reason to unlist is to free capital, but if you expect a spike, you're better off leaving it listed for later.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

Hemmo Paskiainen
#71 - 2013-08-14 13:23:41 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
arabella blood wrote:
LittleTerror wrote:
I profit every time, I win always Cool



Is that a competition? where do i register as a winner?

You seem to think everyone buys stuff at your price. when im fact i bought it 2 weeks ago for half the price, what now?

you also think you are amazing, and the fact that you talk about achivments like earning 454mil and hauling stacks in BR, just proves you are dealing with nickels and dimes. you aren't worth explaining to you where you are wrong.



The amount of isk I have makes no difference to what I said... The fact I can double my wallet every day is what makes the difference and if you only trade in jita with 10 alts, you're just too short sighted I guess...

Also I clearly haven't been sat in jita for the past year or so, I'm here now to make some isk, last 24 hour stats from 282 mill starting capital after plex purchase, 238 mil profit end balance 520 mil, not too shabby considering my starting isk :). Bought a BR, and about 200 mil of stuff to haul to some other location to sell for 50% profit. There is nothing on the market there but there are lvl 3 and lvl 4 security agents and people with needs, its not gonna be nickels and dimes when I stock up 10 similar locations every day :)

Of course though, you have so much isk, you can probably afford a loss from time to time, or just buy up lots of stuff at one price and sell 2 weeks later, this I understand and I'd probably do it my self if i had the isk to do it.



500 mil profit a day with station trading or 300% profit on a 50b investment, if you may choose, what would it be?

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#72 - 2013-08-14 13:25:52 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
The amount of isk I have makes no difference to what I said... The fact I can double my wallet every day is what makes the difference and if you only trade in jita with 10 alts, you're just too short sighted I guess...

Also I clearly haven't been sat in jita for the past year or so, I'm here now to make some isk, last 24 hour stats from 282 mill starting capital after plex purchase, 238 mil profit end balance 520 mil, not too shabby considering my starting isk :).


Awesome. At this rate you you will be a multi quadrillionaire this time next month.
LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#73 - 2013-08-14 15:56:04 UTC  |  Edited by: LittleTerror
arabella blood wrote:
LittleTerror wrote:
I profit every time, I win always Cool


The amount of isk I have makes no difference to what I said... The fact I can double my wallet every day is what makes the difference and if you only trade in jita with 10 alts, you're just too short sighted I guess...

Also I clearly haven't been sat in jita for the past year or so, I'm here now to make some isk, last 24 hour stats from 282 mill starting capital after plex purchase, 238 mil profit end balance 520 mil, not too shabby considering my starting isk :). Bought a BR, and about 200 mil of stuff to haul to some other location to sell for 50% profit. There is nothing on the market there but there are lvl 3 and lvl 4 security agents and people with needs, its not gonna be nickels and dimes when I stock up 10 similar locations every day :)

Of course though, you have so much isk, you can probably afford a loss from time to time, or just buy up lots of stuff at one price and sell 2 weeks later, this I understand and I'd probably do it my self if i had the isk to do it.


We all had that time when doubling our total was a goal. Doubling 250mil in short time is not impressive. Doubling the larger amounts is hard, hope you can see why. That why we prefer different metrics when we have bigger sums.
I usually go with time/money formula. How much isk i can make with the smallest effort possible.

Thats why i dont care so much for hauling, i just dont like it and its too much effort.

You see, screaming "i win" when we arent even in the same category is funny.


Actually it does not take me much effort, I just look at the history graphs for the items that have the perfect requirements for a fast turnover, I divide my total isk by the number of items i've picked, then I invest equal amounts across those items and can usually fill my hanger with stuff within 10 - 20 minutes during eve peak hours, it depends on how much I currently have to start with. I resell for 10% or more almost instantly because these items are sold faster than they are bought, now if I could fill my hanger with 10 billion worth of stuff and resell inside of an hour and then resell for 10%, which I think is entirely doable with the right sort of items, that would be 1 billion profit per hour, maybe I have my maths wrong, or maybe I'm just dreaming.

As for the hauling, I'm only hauling my self right now because I want to, if I could not be bothered I would use contracts to have it moved for me, if you have spare isk laying around its not much effort to pay someone to move 1 billion of stuff to some remote location and slow sell over a period of 1 - 3 months and its ridiculous how much people will pay extra because they are too lazy them selves.

But you are dead right, we are miles apart, and I do totally understand your strategy, and why you do what you do but I'm not talking about people like you, I'm talking about the people the OP and others were talking about, the ones that don't do it because of a long term plan/investment, were the item is clearly not doing anything other than staying the same price due to supply demand.

Johan Toralen wrote:
LittleTerror wrote:
The amount of isk I have makes no difference to what I said... The fact I can double my wallet every day is what makes the difference and if you only trade in jita with 10 alts, you're just too short sighted I guess...

Also I clearly haven't been sat in jita for the past year or so, I'm here now to make some isk, last 24 hour stats from 282 mill starting capital after plex purchase, 238 mil profit end balance 520 mil, not too shabby considering my starting isk :).


Awesome. At this rate you you will be a multi quadrillionaire this time next month.


I think my mouse finger would have fallen off long before that but yeah my goal is actually 1 billion per day with the least effort as possible and for that I first need to work my arse off for it, if I had 10 - 20 billion I could easily pull that off with just 1 - 2 hours effort per day I reckon.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#74 - 2013-08-14 16:38:18 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
pay someone to move 1 billion of stuff to some remote location


If you ever traded anything you would have known that if i want to sell something in a "remote" location, i would have to fly there or at least to its region if i got the skills.
If i fly there already, i can move it myself, but its a wate of effort.

your method is so much time consuming you wouldn't believe, and risky on top of that (unducking).

While its sure brings money, but hey, on the period of 12 hours you made 250mil? fo ratting, i hear its 30ish a tick = ~1.5bil for 12 hours...still winning anything there? 12 hours!! omg, im talking here about 30minutes work for 500mil and more...
my rule of thumb - its not worth hauling unless it can fill a freighter.

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

Zeta Zhul
Preemptive Paranoia
#75 - 2013-08-14 16:43:45 UTC
Even if it can fill a freighter it still probably isn't worth hauling.

As for the rest.....

Honestly under 1bil and growth is easy. Over 500bil and growth is a bit more difficult. And really the most difficult part of dealing with really big trading is that recurring feeling that you just can't be arsed to do it for less than a couple bil unless it's for the giggles.
LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#76 - 2013-08-14 17:11:07 UTC  |  Edited by: LittleTerror
arabella blood wrote:
LittleTerror wrote:
pay someone to move 1 billion of stuff to some remote location


If you ever traded anything you would have known that if i want to sell something in a "remote" location, i would have to fly there or at least to its region if i got the skills.
If i fly there already, i can move it myself, but its a wate of effort.

your method is so much time consuming you wouldn't believe, and risky on top of that (unducking).

While its sure brings money, but hey, on the period of 12 hours you made 250mil? fo ratting, i hear its 30ish a tick = ~1.5bil for 12 hours...still winning anything there? 12 hours!! omg, im talking here about 30minutes work for 500mil and more...
my rule of thumb - its not worth hauling unless it can fill a freighter.



ratters making more isk than me? Good for them, I've done so much ratting I'm sick of it, don't get me wrong here I'm well aware there are much faster ways for me to raise my capital but all those methods are boring as ****. I've played eve a long ass time mkay, and I've never really had that much isk because I'm lazy by nature, I preferred pvp over everything, I'd only just scrape by to fund my next ship, i'd normally just do some ratting at 150 mil per hour buts it 'boring boring' and I think that you'd agree with me on that.

I've just started playing again within the last 3 months after a very long break except a few months here and there to check the game changes out, within those last 3 months I've read countless threads on MD, and done my own intensive market research in order to figure it all out and I think I'm doing just fine in my new found eve profession... Why do I wish to become rich through trading? So I afford to war dec mouthy noobs like you and rip your main corp apart from both inside and out...

Now you might have more isk than me but that does not make you better at the game nor does it some how increase your understanding of it, you are starting to really grate on me by telling me things I already know.

Oh and do stop trying to make me feel all bad about what I say, anyone that knows me knows I speak my mind freely and openly, so your attempts are null...
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#77 - 2013-08-14 17:17:55 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:


Now you might have more isk than me but that does not make you better at the game nor does it some how increase your understanding of it, you are starting to really grate on me by telling me things I already know.

Oh and do stop trying to make me feel all bad about what I say, anyone that knows me knows I speak my mind freely and openly, so your attempts are null...


Sure it means something, it means you are not winning in your wierd competition...

and why would i stop, i loove your tears ShockedShocked gogo double your wallet again.

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#78 - 2013-08-14 17:20:49 UTC
Zeta Zhul wrote:
Even if it can fill a freighter it still probably isn't worth hauling.

As for the rest.....

Honestly under 1bil and growth is easy. Over 500bil and growth is a bit more difficult. And really the most difficult part of dealing with really big trading is that recurring feeling that you just can't be arsed to do it for less than a couple bil unless it's for the giggles.


good for you but you started with zero just like everyone else, stop thinking you're better just because you have more isk from sitting in jita pushing items around on a screen, it is a no brainer, the game actually tells you everything if you look... People who have amassed billions from other creative means *cough*, earn much more respect from me.
arabella blood
Keyboard Jihad
#79 - 2013-08-14 17:28:03 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
Zeta Zhul wrote:
Even if it can fill a freighter it still probably isn't worth hauling.

As for the rest.....

Honestly under 1bil and growth is easy. Over 500bil and growth is a bit more difficult. And really the most difficult part of dealing with really big trading is that recurring feeling that you just can't be arsed to do it for less than a couple bil unless it's for the giggles.


good for you but you started with zero just like everyone else, stop thinking you're better just because you have more isk from sitting in jita pushing items around on a screen, it is a no brainer, the game actually tells you everything if you look... People who have amassed billions from other creative means *cough*, earn much more respect from me.


We werent looking for your respect, we wanted to taste your tears. and you were a fine candidate from your first post here.
And still you have been found wanting...

Troll for hire. Cheap prices.

SJ Astralana
Syncore
#80 - 2013-08-14 20:20:50 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:

Why do I wish to become rich through trading? So I afford to war dec mouthy noobs like you and rip your main corp apart from both inside and out...


I've done that Smile. I wardecced Shadarle back in the day, had some mates keep tabs on him and his alts when the war went live for 24 hours while he laughed it up, and when it went live PL (hired by me as mercs) wardecced him and took his POS down 24 hours later. Easily one of the most fun weeks I've had in almost 10 years in this game.

Relevant links:
http://eve-search.com/thread/815793-0/page/1
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=826841

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager