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How difficult are NPC anomalies to solo + question about backfiring literally

Author
Mortis Graves
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-08-13 17:13:08 UTC
Hello Everyone! I'm new to EVE and I really like it so far Smile

Now, to the point. I have recently bought my first offensive ship - a Hurricane, and I thought that when I'll try it out on some belt rats, I'll shoot them once and within a second and they'll pop like a soap bubble... but that wasn't exactly the case.

To give you some detail, I've fitted it with 4x 650mm Artillery Cannons I and 2x Heavy Beam Lasers. Used some EMP ammo + Ultraviolet crystals and I couldn't believe to see how I didn't hit them once. Right now, after some trial and error, I've got some smaller 220mm Vulcan Autocannons I and a Pulse Laser and in general... it works - I can snipe them with the heavy beam and as they get closer - fire the cannons and the pulse laser.

However, and here goes question 1 - will I always have to fly away from them to get some accuracy? Whether I sit in the same spot or move towards them or orbit around them - I still have a lot of issues hitting them, but when I fire my afterburner and move away from them, then they really do pop like soap bubbles Blink Is that it? If I improve my skills, will I ever achieve a point where I can successfully have a rat orbiting me and I'll just conveniently shoot them without moving? Just to clarify - I'm talking about the Angel Cartel rats in high-sec so they're very weak, but also fast and they'll just orbit around you by default. Is moving away from the target and backfiring actually a strategy or do I need better gear, different weapons?

And my second question is - how difficult are the NPC anomaly... places? I mean - I know there are different types, but whenever I find any info about all these Angel Hideaways, Angel Burrows, Angel Refuges etc. no one ever seems to mention the difficulty in some perspective. So could I actually solo with my Hurricane through some of these? If so - which ones? At what point would it become impossible?

Now, I know - I could just go and try out, but I prefer to "gather some intel" here before engaging the operation Blink so any help would be appreciated.
Snaggletooth Slackjaw
Banana Moon Industries
#2 - 2013-08-13 17:34:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Snaggletooth Slackjaw
In a nutshell, big guns have difficulty hitting small targets at close range.

There are several ways to deal with this problem.....web them to slow them down, thus making them easier to hit, or use light drones to kill the small ships while you focus on the bigger stuff, to mention just a couple.

As for anomalies: Hideaways are easiest, then burrows, then refuges, then dens.

If they have a prefix (e.g, Forsaken Hideaway), they will be significantly more difficult. A standard hideaway just has frigates, whereas a forsaken hideaway will have frigates, destroyers and cruisers.

How difficult they are to clear will depend a lot on your skills., but hideaways, burrows and refuges should be easily solo'ed in a 'cane. Just warp out if the damage starts to mount up.

CEO, Banana Moon Industries. Alliance Diplomat, Rim Worlds Protectorate

Mortis Graves
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-08-13 17:49:58 UTC
Thanks for your reply, but regarding the anomalies - everything in EVE depends on many thing, but just to have a general idea, is the easiest Hideaway doable for a single Hurricane and a not very skilled pilot or can even the easiest anomaly be so overwhelming that I certainly couldn't make it because, let's say, they've been design for fleets and not single ships?
Ned Taggart
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-08-13 18:08:15 UTC
I usually just type the name into google when I find one and it tells you what you would be up against. Example - Angel Hub - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Angel_Hub

This give you the basics, there will also be towers shooting at you and they will come in waves. Its probably best to find a few friends and do them together. Especially, if one fly's Logi.
Praxis Ginimic
Best Kept Frozen.
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#5 - 2013-08-13 18:15:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Praxis Ginimic
A mediocre to difficult low sec anom should be easily solo'd in a well fit cane with low to mediocre skills.

You should be minding more than just your tracking though. Mind your range as well. Your fit is likely also a problem. Don't put lasers on a Minmatar boat, for example.

Here see some helpful links for you:

list of all anomalies

get ideas for fits from killboards, not loadouts

EVE Fitting Tool
Load up your api so you can apply your skills to the fits you make

check the wiki for info about the api and how to obtain yours

some helpful info about your hurricane
Snaggletooth Slackjaw
Banana Moon Industries
#6 - 2013-08-13 18:30:38 UTC
A standard hideaway will be about 4 waves of 3 frigates of approximately the same strength as hi-sec belt rats.

So just treat them the same way you would regular belt rats. You have enough tank in a hurricane that they will take a long time to do enough damage to cause any concern, so try a few out and vary tactics/fits until you find something that works for you.

IIRC, a burrow has a few more frigates and a couple of destroyers. The destroyers will hit harder, but are easier to hit as they are a bit bigger and a bit slower.

The incoming damage on a refuge will be a bit more noticeable, so you may want to make sure you can clear the lower anoms with ease before running this, but my skills aren't great, and I clear standard refuges in a destroyer without too many problems.

If you can apply 100+ dps and have some active tank, I can't see a refuge giving you anything to worry about.

CEO, Banana Moon Industries. Alliance Diplomat, Rim Worlds Protectorate

Praxis Ginimic
Best Kept Frozen.
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#7 - 2013-08-13 18:44:38 UTC
A quick note about flying away from rats. They are programmed to orbit you our stay at a specific distance. If you get outside of that distance they will mwd toward you. This blows out their sig radius which makes hitting them with large guns easier
Jenn Ymor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-08-13 18:48:44 UTC
When Fitting guns to your ship, notice the range given for that specific type of gun and also how the range changes when using different ammo types. Autocannons are more Close range weapons, while artillery is Long range. Each gun has an optimal range and falloff. When you are fighting outside of those ranges, your guns will have extreme difficulties hitting any Targets that is not the size of a small Station or moon, sometimes even that you won't anything.
A good way to see your ranges with different ammunition is to undock, load your guns and hover your mouse over the weapon-symbol in your overview. The UI will show you the correct ranges for that type of ammo.
I would suggest to fit only one sort of weapon, learn the range and then try to fight in that specific range. A Hurricane is rather agile for a bc, so that shouldn't be too difficult. Fitting a prop module like an afterburner should do the trick. Also switching ammo can help to cover a greater range.

In High Sec you should be able to fly most anomalies without too much Trouble, the guides mentioned before will help to evaluate what can be handled.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#9 - 2013-08-13 18:55:03 UTC

And a few more hints:

Generally speaking, ships are optimized with one type of weapon, not multiple.

Yes, you can fit long range and short range weapons to the same ship, but generally it is more efficient to fit all close range or all long range weapons, and adjust your flying & engagement tactics to match your weapons.

Next, the cane gets a bonus to medium projectile turret damage and rate of fire. This makes medium projectile weapons much stronger on a hurricane, especially compared to lasers. In general, you want to fit your ship to take advantage of its hull bonuses.



Praxis Ginimic
Best Kept Frozen.
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#10 - 2013-08-13 19:08:01 UTC
One more thing. Get into a player corp. The experience they can offer you is far greater than the info you will get from any guide or forum.
Mortis Graves
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-08-13 19:13:07 UTC
Ned Taggart wrote:
I usually just type the name into google when I find one and it tells you what you would be up against. Example - Angel Hub - https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Angel_Hub

This give you the basics, there will also be towers shooting at you and they will come in waves. Its probably best to find a few friends and do them together. Especially, if one fly's Logi.

Thanks. Googling is what I do all the time while mining. That's the "good" part about mining - all you can do is to open the in-game browser and read about ships, fittings etc. But still, nothing like a word of advice from someone who's actually been there and done that.

As for towers - well, of course I wouldn't just kill the first wave while I'm getting shot by towers. Towers would go first while the first wave is weak enough so I can tank it.... assuming we're talking about towers destructible within an hour, that is ;)

Praxis Ginimic wrote:
A mediocre to difficult low sec anom should be easily solo'd in a well fit cane with low to mediocre skills.

You should be minding more than just your tracking though. Mind your range as well. Your fit is likely also a problem. Don't put lasers on a Minmatar boat, for example.
(...)

Thanks for the links. Regarding lasers - yup, that's exactly what one of the NPC agent from the first missions said - projectile turrets are what a Minmatar ship should use. I've just had to... try and see, but I get the impression that the laser is just making cool visual effects while I'm killing the rats with the autocannons so I'll get some more of these.

Snaggletooth Slackjaw wrote:
A standard hideaway will be about 4 waves of 3 frigates of approximately the same strength as hi-sec belt rats.

So just treat them the same way you would regular belt rats. You have enough tank in a hurricane that they will take a long time to do enough damage to cause any concern, so try a few out and vary tactics/fits until you find something that works for you.

IIRC, a burrow has a few more frigates and a couple of destroyers. The destroyers will hit harder, but are easier to hit as they are a bit bigger and a bit slower.

The incoming damage on a refuge will be a bit more noticeable, so you may want to make sure you can clear the lower anoms with ease before running this, but my skills aren't great, and I clear standard refuges in a destroyer without too many problems.

If you can apply 100+ dps and have some active tank, I can't see a refuge giving you anything to worry about.

Thanks you very much, that gives me a good idea :)

To give you a general idea what I've got fitted - aside from the "what turret do I choose" issue, in mid slots, I've got (writing from memory, could get some stuff wrong, sorry):
- Medium Shield Extender I
- Medium Shield Booster I
- Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
- Experimental 10MN Afterburner I

In low slots, I've got:
- 2x Tracking Enhancer I
- 2x Medium Armor Repairer I
- Damage Control I
- Gyrostabilizer I

And when it comes to the regular belt rats, the most I fought at once were 4 of them and I could have sit there for hours and just turn on the shield booster once in a while and there's no way they could have killed me and I didn't even got the chance to fire up my 2 armor repairers.

So if about 100dps is what they would fire at me and I would get rid of the lasers having the capacitors dedicated to either shield or armor tanking, it sounds not that bad Smile


Jenn Ymor wrote:
When Fitting guns to your ship, notice the range given for that specific type of gun and also how the range changes when using different ammo types. Autocannons are more Close range weapons, while artillery is Long range. Each gun has an optimal range and falloff. When you are fighting outside of those ranges, your guns will have extreme difficulties hitting any Targets that is not the size of a small Station or moon, sometimes even that you won't anything.
A good way to see your ranges with different ammunition is to undock, load your guns and hover your mouse over the weapon-symbol in your overview. The UI will show you the correct ranges for that type of ammo.
I would suggest to fit only one sort of weapon, learn the range and then try to fight in that specific range. A Hurricane is rather agile for a bc, so that shouldn't be too difficult. Fitting a prop module like an afterburner should do the trick. Also switching ammo can help to cover a greater range.

In High Sec you should be able to fly most anomalies without too much Trouble, the guides mentioned before will help to evaluate what can be handled.

Thanks for the tips. Yeah, I must have discarded the ranges and foolishly though "bigger guns = bigger damage". And you're right about the ammo, Fusion seems to hurt the rats more than EMP as far as I've noticed.

Anyway, thanks for your replies, I think I'll give it a shot... literally, if anything goes wrong, well... I'm insured so an hour of mining to get the gear back and I'm back in business. Clone upgraded so no skill loss. We'll see what happens.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-08-13 19:29:45 UTC
Mortis Graves wrote:

To give you a general idea what I've got fitted - aside from the "what turret do I choose" issue, in mid slots, I've got (writing from memory, could get some stuff wrong, sorry):
- Medium Shield Extender I
- Medium Shield Booster I
- Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
- Experimental 10MN Afterburner I

In low slots, I've got:
- 2x Tracking Enhancer I
- 2x Medium Armor Repairer I
- Damage Control I
- Gyrostabilizer I


Don't dual tank.

Armour or shield tanking, not both. Now cane can be fitted either way, so pick one or the other. Generally you also don't want to mix buffer tank (plates/extenders) with active tank (boosters/repairers)

No offence, but you might be better off shipping down to a cruiser until you get your support skills up some more. Battlecruisers are a lot less forgiving to poor skills and poor fits.
Mortis Graves
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-08-13 19:50:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Mortis Graves
Elena Thiesant wrote:

Don't dual tank.

Armour or shield tanking, not both. Now cane can be fitted either way, so pick one or the other. Generally you also don't want to mix buffer tank (plates/extenders) with active tank (boosters/repairers)

No offence, but you might be better off shipping down to a cruiser until you get your support skills up some more. Battlecruisers are a lot less forgiving to poor skills and poor fits.

None taken :) I was aware that the cane may be too much for me at this point, but the reason I've picked it was basically more HP than, let's say, a Rupture so that in case I make mistakes, at least I'll have some time to improvise.

Regarding dual tanking - thanks for the advise, I think I'll concentrate on armor tank then.
Mortis Graves
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-08-13 23:38:51 UTC
FWIW - I went there today and here's what I have to say about it: BUAHAHAHA! Lol

Oh boy, if I knew how ridiculously easy it is, I wouldn't have asked. I think this must have been a glitch or something or maybe I caught the Angel Cartel sleeping and they've just sent some replacement ships they only had at hand, but it was so easy that I've actually struggled more with some regular belt rats and their orbiting habits than these joke-ships in the anomalies.

One was an Angel Hideaway which was a joke - sitting still at 20km and sniping them down as they come (yes, I took 2 Heavy Beam Lasers, but got rid of the Pulse Lasers for another two 220mm Vulcan Autocannons). Done in 2 minutes.

Next was an Angel Refuge - now this one actually had towers indeed, but they were gone in no-time too and the "toughest" of the enemies was just the last Gistior Defiler (Destroyer), but not anywhere near a point where I could start considering thinking about actively tanking.

Long story short - the loot was really bad, got maybe 500k ISK from it and I can get 1.5 mil just as fast from regular belt rats who seem carry more valuable stuff. Bottom line - the most valuable thing I've got from this were your responses here so thanks for that Smile
Slymah
DorpCorp
#15 - 2013-08-13 23:56:02 UTC
Good advice here.

Also keep in mind you don't always have to warp to 0 in anoms. Find a sweet spot where you can kill them while theyre on their intercept path. Or even go with artillery guns instead of autocannons so you can stay way far away. However .. it does make it a pain to collect your loot. Also if you go with arties you will never be able to hit them up close. You will need your drones to take care of the frigates.

Might be better off in a cruiser with 220mm ac's .. they could track those frigates down much more easily. possibly equip a tracking enhancing mod if youre mostly dealing with frigates.

You will have a lot more room for gadgets and damage mods once you settle into focusing on a single tank setup.

Ruptures are fun and pretty tough if fit right.
James Hakkar
Pro Synergy
#16 - 2013-08-14 08:32:55 UTC
Mortis Graves wrote:
FWIW - I went there today and here's what I have to say about it: BUAHAHAHA! Lol

Oh boy, if I knew how ridiculously easy it is, I wouldn't have asked. I think this must have been a glitch or something or maybe I caught the Angel Cartel sleeping and they've just sent some replacement ships they only had at hand, but it was so easy that I've actually struggled more with some regular belt rats and their orbiting habits than these joke-ships in the anomalies.

One was an Angel Hideaway which was a joke - sitting still at 20km and sniping them down as they come (yes, I took 2 Heavy Beam Lasers, but got rid of the Pulse Lasers for another two 220mm Vulcan Autocannons). Done in 2 minutes.

Next was an Angel Refuge - now this one actually had towers indeed, but they were gone in no-time too and the "toughest" of the enemies was just the last Gistior Defiler (Destroyer), but not anywhere near a point where I could start considering thinking about actively tanking.

Long story short - the loot was really bad, got maybe 500k ISK from it and I can get 1.5 mil just as fast from regular belt rats who seem carry more valuable stuff. Bottom line - the most valuable thing I've got from this were your responses here so thanks for that Smile


Sounds to me you're doing the anomalies in highsec. As you have seen those are pretty easy and can be done in a tech 1 frigate, with ease :P So your Hurricane was already a bit of overkill.

The loot in highsec is bad. Though most of these complexes have a small chance to spawn a faction rat. Those can drop modules that are worth millions. Also the complex can escalate into a new one, which is actually the reason why people do these. These escalations can chain on and contain faction rats most of the time. That is where the money is,m not the loot from the unrated highsec anomalies. Keep in mind though that the escalations can be much harder then the anomalie from where it started!

If you want to read more about escalations:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Escalating_encounters
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Exploration_combat_sites_for_new_players

Want to earn a [u]lot[/u]** of money as a new player? Join channel: **Pro Synergy Salvage the leftovers from veteran missioners and get paid in large amounts. 

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#17 - 2013-08-14 11:10:11 UTC
Anomalies and also exploration sites (which you probe down) and escalations (which are optional continuations of either) have a difficulty rating from 1 to 10. As a general rule of thumb:


1: Any idiot in a failfit frigate
2: Well fit frigate or larger
3: Well fit cruiser/BC/tech 2 frigate
4: Well fit tech 2 cruiser, or tech 1 battlecruiser or larger.
5-7: Well fit tech 2 or tech 3 cruiser, pirate faction cruiser, or a tech 2 or faction battlecruiser or battleship
8-10: A very well fit ship that has been tailor-fit for the exact complex, or a small fleet, or (I believe, not certain on this) a carrier (capital ship)


In highsec, you will encounter level 1 anomolies, 1-4 exploration sites, and (rarely) get offered expeditions that are 5 or lower. Expeditions may be in lowsec even when triggered in highsec.
Lowsec you can probe down 3-7s (IIRC), and anomolies are 1-3, and expeditions can be 10s if you are near a nullsec border.
Nullsec IIRC you probe down 5-10s.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Medarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-08-14 13:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Medarr
Dont fit lazors on a cane.
Lazors are amarr weapons.
You want projectile weapons on your ship.
They are the ones that get bonuses from the ships hull.
Also to the rest posting in this thread..
Why didnt you catch this glaring error?
Ya all should feel bad.
Trudeaux Margaret
Fancypants Inc
#19 - 2013-08-14 13:57:22 UTC
Medarr wrote:
Dont fit lazors on a cane.
Lazors are amarr weapons.
You want projectile weapons on your ship.
They are the ones that get bonuses from the ships hull.
Also to the rest posting in this thread..
Why didnt you catch this glaring error?
Ya all should feel bad.



That issue was addressed, in this post as well as others.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl

Mortis Graves
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-08-14 14:08:43 UTC
Yup, has been pointed out earlier, I know I've stubbornly kept these 2 lasers yesterday, will replace them most likely with 2 long-range projectile weapons.

Thanks for all your tips, I appreciate it :)
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