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why are railgun battleships the current "meta"

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Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-08-13 10:24:25 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
"You cannot hit me tanks" are often rather silly

What you want is a "I'm a ******* Rokh" tank.


Nah, what you want is "run in overheated guns blazing, they go down or we do" tank.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-08-13 13:35:08 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
"You cannot hit me tanks" are often rather silly

What you want is a "I'm a ******* Rokh" tank.



Which is nicely countered by the "hi, here come my bombers" tank Twisted
Darling Hassasin
Parental Control
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#23 - 2013-08-13 14:26:54 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
"You cannot hit me tanks" are often rather silly

What you want is a "I'm a ******* Rokh" tank.


Yes if you are interested in holding ground. Not helpful when you are outnumbered though. I am sure I dont need to explain the obvious to a BYDI dude...
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#24 - 2013-08-13 17:59:56 UTC
Darling Hassasin wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
"You cannot hit me tanks" are often rather silly

What you want is a "I'm a ******* Rokh" tank.


Yes if you are interested in holding ground. Not helpful when you are outnumbered though. I am sure I dont need to explain the obvious to a BYDI dude...


Well that depends on what you are fighting.

If you are fighting something that has the same range as you and ten times the tank you are in trouble.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-08-13 19:46:49 UTC
Jessica Saphire wrote:
This is a moot point, you can even pvp with an ibis and succeed, getting the job done doesnt mean its very quick or efficient.


What id like to know is why rails are so popular in pvp now?


Cause numbers are so high that every volley alphaes a target, rails cycle faster so they can alpha more targets in less time.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-08-13 20:11:32 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Darling Hassasin wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
"You cannot hit me tanks" are often rather silly

What you want is a "I'm a ******* Rokh" tank.


Yes if you are interested in holding ground. Not helpful when you are outnumbered though. I am sure I dont need to explain the obvious to a BYDI dude...


Well that depends on what you are fighting.

If you are fighting something that has the same range as you and ten times the tank you are in trouble.


There are different youz can hit me tanks, your 100mn abc/tengu fleets are one kind for example. Another kind is the dualtd condor. But yes, it all comes down to a what you are fighting and how many.
BOHC Lotteries
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-08-14 04:08:18 UTC
Instant damage and shorter cycle times along with keeping high alpha make them very useful. Add on the tank that they are fit on (Megas and Rokhs) and you truly have something dangerous.

Another thing to look at is how they are supported/ fielded. You have megas doing kinetic and thermal damage and hounds doing shrapnel. Which basically forces you to tank for everything and makes the reactive hardeners worthless.
Darling Hassasin
Parental Control
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#28 - 2013-08-14 07:03:19 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Darling Hassasin wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
"You cannot hit me tanks" are often rather silly

What you want is a "I'm a ******* Rokh" tank.


Yes if you are interested in holding ground. Not helpful when you are outnumbered though. I am sure I dont need to explain the obvious to a BYDI dude...


Well that depends on what you are fighting.

If you are fighting something that has the same range as you and ten times the tank you are in trouble.



Now I get your point better. This mightTM be an issue against a Rokh fleet (bringing Spike - likely - bringing enough sensor boosters AND tank - not likely) that could hit you out to 200Kms or even a cruise based fleet on Ravne hulls with many sensor boosters. Both scenarios are unlikely.

Because of most fleets today intepreting sniping as something that is done at medium long ranges (100-150km) it is very unlikely that the standard fleet you ll come up against will really be prepared to hit you out to 200kms.

Additionally an Eagle fleet (as an example) is a lot harder to hit, better tanked and has a lot better tracking than a Tornado fleet (a lot less alpha of course)... so ... lets just say I dont think that TQ has made the most of the relevant meta yet... I expect we will be seeing more...

Hek they might even start using Cruise missile snipers more ... Burn Eden was doing it even back in 2006 lol...
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#29 - 2013-08-14 08:29:58 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Remember that MJDs exist.

Go go gadget get the **** outa there!

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-08-14 11:42:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Darling Hassasin wrote:
Additionally an Eagle fleet (as an example) is a lot harder to hit, better tanked and has a lot better tracking than a Tornado fleet (a lot less alpha of course)... so ... lets just say I dont think that TQ has made the most of the relevant meta yet... I expect we will be seeing more...

Hek they might even start using Cruise missile snipers more ... Burn Eden was doing it even back in 2006 lol...


Eagles have two advantages over the Nado fleet: triple EHP before fleet boosters and guns cycling way faster, ok rails alpha is ridiculous but the time you get a second shot on the same Eagle this one as already put 4 on you, multiply 4 by the number of them and you get enough alpha/dps to shred to pieces one by one Nados fleets and faster the Nados should be able to kill the Eagles.
Nice counter to eagles is still rails Nagas, they get tank and gank, but this is of course purely theoretical and should not be theoretically interesting if numbers start climbing after 50 dudes fleet.

Edit: I'm quite surprised after the Cruise missiles buff what a CNR can push as tank and alpha/dps not being restricted to dmg type, which is huge advantage, however targeting range is a problem and requires slots to increase it reducing tank/dmg mods by a huge percentage. But yep, would like to see this happen, with over 6K alpha strike no matter the dmg type looks quite interesting on paper vs other BS types, but only on paper.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Silver Getsuga
Liber Primus
#31 - 2013-08-14 12:56:42 UTC
Are Eagles supposed to tank with signatures?
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-08-14 13:14:55 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Remember that MJDs exist.

Go go gadget get the **** outa there!


Or in some cases more importantly, get the **** in there.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-08-14 17:29:40 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Darling Hassasin wrote:
Additionally an Eagle fleet (as an example) is a lot harder to hit, better tanked and has a lot better tracking than a Tornado fleet (a lot less alpha of course)... so ... lets just say I dont think that TQ has made the most of the relevant meta yet... I expect we will be seeing more...

Hek they might even start using Cruise missile snipers more ... Burn Eden was doing it even back in 2006 lol...


Eagles have two advantages over the Nado fleet: triple EHP before fleet boosters and guns cycling way faster, ok rails alpha is ridiculous but the time you get a second shot on the same Eagle this one as already put 4 on you, multiply 4 by the number of them and you get enough alpha/dps to shred to pieces one by one Nados fleets and faster the Nados should be able to kill the Eagles.
Nice counter to eagles is still rails Nagas, they get tank and gank, but this is of course purely theoretical and should not be theoretically interesting if numbers start climbing after 50 dudes fleet.

Edit: I'm quite surprised after the Cruise missiles buff what a CNR can push as tank and alpha/dps not being restricted to dmg type, which is huge advantage, however targeting range is a problem and requires slots to increase it reducing tank/dmg mods by a huge percentage. But yep, would like to see this happen, with over 6K alpha strike no matter the dmg type looks quite interesting on paper vs other BS types, but only on paper.


No, the counter to eagles aren't nagas, its the other way round (due to t2 caldari resistances). The counter to eagles is it's isk cost.
BOHC Lotteries
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-08-15 06:49:57 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Darling Hassasin wrote:
Additionally an Eagle fleet (as an example) is a lot harder to hit, better tanked and has a lot better tracking than a Tornado fleet (a lot less alpha of course)... so ... lets just say I dont think that TQ has made the most of the relevant meta yet... I expect we will be seeing more...

Hek they might even start using Cruise missile snipers more ... Burn Eden was doing it even back in 2006 lol...


Eagles have two advantages over the Nado fleet: triple EHP before fleet boosters and guns cycling way faster, ok rails alpha is ridiculous but the time you get a second shot on the same Eagle this one as already put 4 on you, multiply 4 by the number of them and you get enough alpha/dps to shred to pieces one by one Nados fleets and faster the Nados should be able to kill the Eagles.
Nice counter to eagles is still rails Nagas, they get tank and gank, but this is of course purely theoretical and should not be theoretically interesting if numbers start climbing after 50 dudes fleet.

Edit: I'm quite surprised after the Cruise missiles buff what a CNR can push as tank and alpha/dps not being restricted to dmg type, which is huge advantage, however targeting range is a problem and requires slots to increase it reducing tank/dmg mods by a huge percentage. But yep, would like to see this happen, with over 6K alpha strike no matter the dmg type looks quite interesting on paper vs other BS types, but only on paper.


No, the counter to eagles aren't nagas, its the other way round (due to t2 caldari resistances). The counter to eagles is it's isk cost.


No the counter to eagles is the fact they suck donkey **** until the next patch. Then again you my see a Rail tengu fleet at that point with even more ehp then the eagles.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-08-15 13:18:50 UTC
BOHC Lotteries wrote:


No the counter to eagles is the fact they suck donkey **** until the next patch. Then again you my see a Rail tengu fleet at that point with even more ehp then the eagles.



There are going to be some interesting rail proteus builds available as well.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#36 - 2013-08-16 19:25:21 UTC
Onictus wrote:
BOHC Lotteries wrote:


No the counter to eagles is the fact they suck donkey **** until the next patch. Then again you my see a Rail tengu fleet at that point with even more ehp then the eagles.



There are going to be some interesting rail proteus builds available as well.

Eagles? Proteuseses? No. I think it will rather be Cerbs. Ugh

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Ryuce
#37 - 2013-08-18 11:45:32 UTC
Regarding your NM it is a very good mission boat in Blood Raider space (Sansha's TD's can be cripling).

The issue with the NM in regard to missions is, that that you are only capable of dealing a limited to dealing EM/thermal damage, which tends to make the NM suboptimal outside of especially Blood Raider missions/space.

As other have mentioned, if you provide it with the correct scenario, it is a very good ship.
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