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Here we go again !

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Short Stack122
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2013-08-14 03:43:17 UTC
Caesarion Prime
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2013-08-14 03:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Caesarion Prime
Short Stack122 wrote:
What i fell like im trying to talk to


Noone ansewerd my inicial post. Pretty hilarious....like i was the one to get !

In this whole Thread noone , "NOONE" said anyithyng about my inicial thoughts. Worst Community ever !

And CCP listens to the FANS ! Not to the new Players.. You will have 10 Alts per Account and be happy with it. CCP makles money and you stay out of other games......good deal.
Short Stack122
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-08-14 03:48:33 UTC
Caesarion Prime wrote:
Short Stack122 wrote:
What i fell like im trying to talk to


Noone ansewerd my inicial post. Pretty hilarious....like i was the one to get !

A) english?
B) what was the point of the original post? you were kinda all over the place
Mekkimaru
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2013-08-14 04:36:32 UTC
ok, ill bite some more

Caesarion Prime wrote:

I am for faster skilltimes for new Players ! In fact give new players 10mil SP to allocate.


new players already get something to help them out, don't they get some crazy implants or whatever? (haven't made a new character recently but I'm sure I've read somewhere that they do)

also, i guess 10 mil SP can be argued for, but really it doesn't take long to be able to do things without having 10mil to allocate right off the bat, i sure as hell didn't, yet I'm still here

Caesarion Prime wrote:

You're not? Are you for removing the Bazaar then?

No ? Hypocrite !


don't care about the bazaar, as was stated in the thread, no point in buying a character that can fly anything if you yourself are clueless. no opinion on bazaar


Caesarion Prime wrote:

I am for gaining SP in Missions. Remove Missions where you can buy stuff and complete the mission.
Exploits you say? Well, Developers get money each month to work on this game and remove exploits/ ban exploiters.


terrible idea. SP for kills = grindy MMO. grind reminds me of Silkroad (coincidentally needed to farm SP there too) bad memories

also what if I'm with friends? say 1 rat gives 3 SP, but there are 4 in fleet, would each member get 3? or do they get 3SP / 4 members? what if a fleet of 256 accidentally kills a rat? what then?

hint: grind =/= good game usually

SP for kills will (i hope) never be implemented

Caesarion Prime wrote:

Pay to win : Go against one enemy ! He loses Ships you lose Ships.......who has the most ships wins. You can buy Ships with Plex can't you?
The counterargument is = You can't buy better ships ! Yeah....true. But if you get podded and buy the same ship against ur enemy and kill him...he ran out of isk...you buy plex as long as you want...he loses = Pay2Win and Pay2Play.


lol. pay to win. if you want pay to win go play Granado Espada or literally one of 99.9% of "Free to play" games

pay to win is never a good thing, makes things unfair, and no amount of "hur dur i have money so i should be better" will change that

i can also say these things because i myself have been a pay to win scrub before

Caesarion Prime wrote:

Edit: Also a question. 500k Subs and 50k people online at peaks? Better not play. Yeah playing a game is overrated. Especially in a game.


this happens in literally every single game ever. look at WoW, look at LoL, literally look at any game.

the subscriptions/registered accounts will always be higher than the active, some people (as you really should do) move on and play games they like

there are also these strange things called timezones, so the 50k active at one point of the day are not the same 50k active on another part of the day (you know, with the exception of people who dont sleep/play for long times)

"What you don't get is that EvE is the most handholding, casual game ever. It is like farmville. No competition for people that want to put time in it. EvE is the most casual game of all times." - Caesarion Prime 2013
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2013-08-14 04:38:43 UTC
Short Stack122 wrote:
Caesarion Prime wrote:
Short Stack122 wrote:
What i fell like im trying to talk to


Noone ansewerd my inicial post. Pretty hilarious....like i was the one to get !

A) english?
B) what was the point of the original post? you were kinda all over the place


Something about something. That is as far as I managed to decipher.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2013-08-14 04:53:47 UTC
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#87 - 2013-08-14 05:10:17 UTC
Mekkimaru wrote:
no point in buying a character that can fly anything if you yourself are clueless.
Haven't you heard? If you don't know everything there is to know about flying your ship after listening to people explaining it for 2 hours, you're really bad.

Who put the goat in there?
Yaturi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2013-08-14 06:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Yaturi
Caesarion Prime wrote:
I am for faster skilltimes for new Players ! In fact give new players 10mil SP to allocate.

You're not? Are you for removing the Bazaar then?

No ? Hypocrite !

I am for gaining SP in Missions. Remove Missions where you can buy stuff and complete the mission.
Exploits you say? Well, Developers get money each month to work on this game and remove exploits/ ban exploiters.

Remove Bazaar. Bazaar is the only Reason that this pain in the ars skill system even exists. GIVE US MONEY GOD DAMN IT !
Money can buy you a propper skilled Char.

All you long time players have nothing to say about that? My guess is, that those who disagree with a new system for new players are those who sell chars on the bazaar.

Pay to win : Go against one enemy ! He loses Ships you lose Ships.......who has the most ships wins. You can buy Ships with Plex can't you?
The counterargument is = You can't buy better ships ! Yeah....true. But if you get podded and buy the same ship against ur enemy and kill him...he ran out of isk...you buy plex as long as you want...he loses = Pay2Win and Pay2Play.

Ur turn

Edit: Also a question. 500k Subs and 50k people online at peaks? Better not play. Yeah playing a game is overrated. Especially in a game.


No to removing Bazaar and no to 10 mil newbie pool for the following reasons:

Eve is a game about strategy. Buying a char is a good option as it provides new emergent gameplay to the player for an un-refundable price. Much like how one chooses to commit sp to a certain ship class, it is a choice that has lasting consequences. You can call it pay to play but in the end it is just another form of this strategy. It is very much a part of EVE's style of gameplay.

A new char starts out with 56 thousand skill points and a rookie ship because that is base template to which this game starts you out as. There were hurdles in the past in the form of learning skills and there are still hurdles to overcome (looking at you learning implants) to make this an easier game for the casual player. However, giving new players 10 million skill points would cause a mass confusion for them. Just think about how many would biomass and roll their chars over and over to never quite be satisfied with them. It would take forever for new players to get comfortable with the game. You need to LEARN how to play the game first, and that is why you start from the bottom and work your way up, rookie ship and all. Its called paying your dues.

For the 500k question, you gotta understand the age target group is for mature players. Most of which don't have hours on end available to play a mmo, much less one with the complexity and depth of this game. Those numbers reflect that.

My own suggestions on the topic:

Take a look at Tippia's signature. She has painstakingly created a noob skill plan that can aid even the most bewildered noob. This is something that CCP should introduce to the game with the same amount of detail as she put in it, clone sp amounts and all. This type of base advice is what is lacking for the newb, as certificates are currently only specific gap bridges. There needs to be broader ones than just the soildier and special forces certificates, much broader imo.
Tyrton
Imbecile MIiss Managment and Disasters
Intergalactic Interstellar Interns
#89 - 2013-08-14 10:23:40 UTC
Caesarion Prime wrote:
Short Stack122 wrote:
Caesarion Prime wrote:
SmilingVagrant wrote:
This is a very poorly written OP, but no I'd have no inherent problem with giving new players a cache of about 10m SP to play with. I also think the stupid newbie frigates should be done away with and a basic but functional T1/Civilian module tackle frigate should be the starting point.


What kind of starting point do you mean? New players want to do all that low sec Crap and have no chance to get to the Fun till they have 2 years of training.


just saying, even though i know you'll ignore me and call me one of the ignorant masses, im a 6ish month old player with roughly 7m SP. i have earned every one of them and have had times where the long training was hard to deal with. but instead of doing like you have and turning off the game to let the skills que, i decided that my time would be better spent LEARNING how to use the new skills and mods i can then use.

your problem is that you seem to assume that you are going to know the "proper" way to use the new gear and skills you have acquired off the bat, that you would be able to jump into a Titan class ship tomorrow and fly it perfectly and better than 90% of the players here already. sorry that that is not anywhere near true.

im currently part of a Null alliance because i actually took the time to learn about the guys i wanted to join, talked to them even though i didnt meet all of the requirements that they wanted and joined up. i run fast tackle and scout for them in my "noob" frig most of the days that i have time, and i am learning new things every time i go out.

this obsession with "2 years of sp's" just to have fun is FAR from accurate in the sense of actually finding fun, i would love to have the sp to be able to fly a titan, but i dont need to fly one to have fun playing the game.

SS out


Never said i wanna sit in a titan...not even in a battleship.....but when i see oh bc 2 months to sit in...i have the money well i better go offline for 3 months now befor i can fly that ****.
No fun to me. And in high sec..........wow boredom.

I hope you agtree that in high the very aim of a new player is lvl 4 missions.....yeah lvl 3 no way...i go afk 2 months to make lvl 3
And no chance to gain SP by doing missions. Wtf ?




Someone correct me if I am wrong ... but don't you have to build rep towards corp/faction before lvl 3 agent talks to you..


That 3 months of offline you will want it back.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-08-14 12:25:49 UTC
Caesarion Prime wrote:
I am for faster skilltimes for new Players ! In fact give new players 10mil SP to allocate.



This statement is bad in so many ways especially since you're a <1mo toon. Of course you're going to feel this way. What you really want is more activities you can participate in. Nothing wrong here. But if you're expecting to compete with people who have trained their toons for years then your expectations are like crazy, yo!

Don't ban me, bro!
Dorrann
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2013-08-14 12:30:45 UTC
Its funny, I can see where he is coming from, but by the time he's posted twice I find myself more willing to pull my own toenails off with pliers that defend him.

EVE is VERY confusing for new players, tonnes of skills, no clearly defined "path" to follow, every poor choice having unalterable consequences. Its a hard game.

Giving away SPs to new toons wont change that.
They tried having a certain amount of differentiation in starting skills at character creation when they first launched and that wasnt any better.

EVE is hard to get a grip on and even harder to master. Its what makes it EVE.

Would I like to see the entry point for new customers be a little more friendly ? Yes.

Do I agree with the OPs rabid Mouth-Foaming Rant ? Nope, cant say that I do.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-08-14 12:41:33 UTC
500k subscriptions...

50k on *THIS* server at a time. Serenity runs about 17k or so - roughly 1/3rd the population (Chinese server).

When around half here are alt accounts, it's still not bad but don't get too carried away by the numbers.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#93 - 2013-08-14 12:49:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Caesarion Prime wrote:
I am for faster skilltimes for new Players ! In fact give new players 10mil SP to allocate.
You're not? Are you for removing the Bazaar then?
No ? Hypocrite !
What's hypocritical about not wanting to throw new players into the deep end when they have no clue about what to do, and at the same time letting people exchange spent game time with each other?

Quote:
I am for gaining SP in Missions. Remove Missions where you can buy stuff and complete the mission.
Exploits you say?
No, no-one is saying (or is ever going to say) exploits about that one. They're going to say “grind to progress”, which is much much worse.

Quote:
Remove Bazaar. Bazaar is the only Reason that this pain in the ars skill system even exists.
No. The reason this skill system exists is because it's far superior to pretty much all other systems out there. It lets you play the game rather than grind for progression and waste time on irrelevant nonsense. The Bazaar exists for the same reason PLEX exists: to allow players to exchange game time with each other, which is another way of shooting grind-to-progress in the gut and leave it to meet as painful an end as it has come to deserve.

The beauty of it all is that it does this while not creating any kind of P2W scheme: no money can be spent on getting things that can't be had through normal gameplay, because all you ever do is trade game time — time that is required to create those things using normal gameplay.

This should neatly explain to you why no-one has anything to say on the matter (except the odd new player who incorrectly assumes that EVE is grind-ot-progress, or that it has P2W, or, hell, that SP even matters in the end): because it's a spectacularly good system that almost completely removes any gap between old and new players; that annihilates the “catching up” problem other systems create; and that kills progression grinding dead (deservedly painfully).

Quote:
Pay to win : Go against one enemy ! He loses Ships you lose Ships.......who has the most ships wins. You can buy Ships with Plex can't you?
No, you can't. You can only buy ships with ISK, and having more ships does not guarantee any kind of win. At most, it builds a foundation for a greater loss. And since you can win just the same, irrespective of whether you pay or not, it never even comes close to P2W.

Quote:
Also a question. 500k Subs and 50k people online at peaks?
Yes? 10% active at peak hours is spectacularly high. Had it just been evenly distributed across all time-zones, and had there been a 100% log-in rate every day, it would be a constant 20k…
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#94 - 2013-08-14 13:05:44 UTC
Caesarion Prime wrote:
All you long time players have nothing to say about that? My guess is, that those who disagree with a new system for new players are those who sell chars on the bazaar.

Incorrect, but carry on with your little fantasy.

You're entertaining the bitter-vets.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Robbin Sund
#95 - 2013-08-14 13:10:14 UTC
Either the people that reply to this guy is bored or...bored.


I mean, you cant be this stupid/tunnelvisioned.. or wait people can. : D
Props for those who keep this topic alive/making him reply, its a good laugh.


If he dont reveal himself as a master-troller soon I will get a bit afraid.

One way trip! Why dont you drive?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2013-08-14 13:12:40 UTC
Robbin Sund wrote:
Either the people that reply to this guy is bored or...bored.

I mean, you cant be this stupid/tunnelvisioned.. or wait people can. : D
Props for those who keep this topic alive/making him reply, its a good laugh.

If he dont reveal himself as a master-troller soon I will get a bit afraid.

…and then there's Poe's Law, so you might as well treat it as a proxy for the real thing regardless.
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#97 - 2013-08-14 13:15:30 UTC
Sorry to bring up WoW and what not: But what you're (OP) expecting is very reminiscent of a player that is brand new in WoW that wants all the best PvP gear and to be able to immediately run level 90 incursions... (Sorry I don't play WoW but I think it goes upto level 90 now?)

You're arguing that it's not fun that a new player cannot match up with the longer playing player base. That's is exactly the same in ANY game that you play. The longer you have played a game, the better (usually) you are at said game. The better equipment you (usually) have access too.

What you're doing is complaining that you are a self entitled little child who want's what everyone else wants, but is throwing a hissy fit because mummy won't let him have ice cream like all the other children.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2013-08-14 13:22:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
ISDs should start issueing ban recommodations against people who only open threads
because they can't cope with their emotional instability.

Too many new threads seem to be created by people who do not care about what others have to say
and just want to rage irrationally about whatever they can't cope with.

We should start asking direct questions, instead of trying to argue or reason.
Argumentation leads nowhere in these cases, because people don't want to argue or learn something.

"This is my opinion. What i am saying, based on the information i have, is logical and therefore correct!"

More and more people ignore the possibility that they lack information and thus have an opinion not
reflecting actual reality, because they are stuck in the belief that whatever feels right or seems logical
MUST therefore be right and reflect reality... thus everybody else is wrong or a troll.

One way to educate, or outright beat, these people is to keep asking the proper questions
which lead to the actual issue within such a person.

Although this approach actually works in 90% of the time
(with different outcomes in the persons POV, but the end usually is silence)
trying is completely futile, because too many other people (respondants in a thread)
suffer the same fate as said OPs and thus keep firing up the nonsensical bullshit some call discussions.

There's more, but it's pointless. If even ONE of you realises the sillyness of what you are doing though,
then i'll consider it a personal success.

People need to realise that the hatred will not only go on,
but also increase, because haters are spoiled by the ability to speak up freely.

The only way to declare peace is to make them go away.
Either through silent opposition, or by force... and in Eve i have learned that
the use of force silences even the biggest haters, because it either makes
them realize the consequences of their actions... or they leave defeated.
Robbin Sund
#99 - 2013-08-14 13:26:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Robbin Sund wrote:
Either the people that reply to this guy is bored or...bored.

I mean, you cant be this stupid/tunnelvisioned.. or wait people can. : D
Props for those who keep this topic alive/making him reply, its a good laugh.

If he dont reveal himself as a master-troller soon I will get a bit afraid.

…and then there's Poe's Law, so you might as well treat it as a proxy for the real thing regardless.



Either way its a good read during work. ;)
*starts to wiki upp Poe's Law*

One way trip! Why dont you drive?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#100 - 2013-08-14 13:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
OP - Everyone started out the same way, in fact when I was a newbie, it was much worse than it is now. Essentially what you want is to be able to jump straight though to mid game, and skip the beginning. That's just not how it works bud.

If you don't like the way it works, then perhaps EVE is not the game for you. Neither the community nor CCP has any problem saying goodbye to players that simply want to play WoW in space. The whole idea behind the time based system is to make you have to think about what you are training, why you are training it and to put more focus on personal skill than in game SP. That's not for everyone, and that's OK, but that's the way it's likely to stay.

EDIT: Oh and if you are staying offline you are doing it wrong. Maybe if you did what you needed to learn how to fly ships, and build up isk, you'd realise you could afford to buy a half decent character from the bazaar without having to pay real world cash to get plex in a fairly short amount of time.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.