Player Features and Ideas Discussion

At worst one loses a Level 5 that takes all of 4 days to retrain as Subsystems are a rank 1 skill. So what ?

And it's chance based, so it doesn't even necessarily happen.

Does this really take a 4 page Thread to grasp the concept ?

I currently have no issue with the SP loss associated with T3's as currently they are overpowered and the SP loss goes a little way to balancing there power.

(I did say little )

The reason I ask is that from what I have read so far it does seem that the T3 line is going to be changed (noticed I didn't say nerfed :)), so if they are changed and are no longer the overpowered ships they are now, is the SP loss still necessary?

For example if (and I hope this does come true) the T3 line up is changed so they sit between T1 and T2.. i.e better the T1 ships and multi-rolled but not better then the specialized T2 variants, then should they keep the SP loss?

No, at least if the power status of T3's stays such. It's the trade off for extra training over specialized ships and get something a bit good at everything but once all combined make it a very strong ship, sometimes far too strong but because of stupid mechanics and not the ship itself.

Loosing SP sucks but is also an important factor of choice, if you want that bit extra tank that extra rig slot good mobility and an overall better ship, then you have to give something in return on top of the extra skills training: SP is a good compromise, nothing to fuss about 5 days at worst and 3 at best.

However if they get the nerfhammer you can expect instead of fixing bad mechanics (OGB and oversize modules fittings) then they need to loose that drawback or they will simply not be worth flying at all, if they will ever be for many years to come after bad rebalance about to hit them hard.

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

I didn't even bother flying my Tengu or Loki until they were all at level 5 anyway.

There are only a few class indexed items in the game. Spec breakers, MJDs, DCUs, etc.

Everything else is fair game.

You ever roll a 100mn Tengu? or Scimi? Try it, then tell me how op it is when you lose it. They aren't all that are they are EXTREMELY difficult to fly, one screw up and that 100mn booster just turned against you as the ship every so slowly gets back up to speed.

HAC firepower, negative. Drake firepower maybe, unless that is you are spending another 200 mil on clones after fitting a pair or deadspace x-large ASBs.....and I would love to see the fit that allows a 100mn booster after that, even using a SS100mn AB, I can't imagine how you would jam that all on.



OGBs are the only reason that small gangs can take on the blob, the blob can protect its command ships if you are going 5 on 20 guess who doesn't have enough logi to protect its most valuable asset. You anti-OGB whiners are shooting yourselves in the foot. I usually roll in packs, so well have the boosters, and the logi to back them up regardless.

Will you?




Oversize modes are used on EVERY SINGLE SHIP CLASS All of them. I have a Hawk with a medium ASBs, X-large boosters have been used on battleships forever, EVERY armor cruiser uses a 1600mm plate, 100mn scimis have been used in the past

Its not an issue, and its far from unique to T3s.

There is no restriction on using capital reps on a BS hull, other than them taking 10 times the grid that a battleship has available.....HOWEVER you can easily fit a 1600 plate on basic T1 cruiser this is by design.

My point being, this is a bad design. As bad as OGB, and seems a lot of players agree on this.

I'm still trying to figure how to fit a large armor rep on my proteus and make it worth, still can't. I know you'll tell me I'm unskilled and don't understand a crap about this game but you're not getting my point: bad designs need to be overhaul to something consistent putting players skill and tactical choices on the scene, not the whatever current pownmobile because of silly mechanics and bad designs.

So what you are going to limit ALL cruiser class hulls to 800? Have fun with 15k eHP cruisers, they just became useless. The T1 frigs down to what? Maybe a 200mm

....and the shield tankers LOL, without being able to oversize the extenders no shield ship wold be able to tank a drone. Much less 5 of them for any amount of time.

Remember ship health was already buffed once.

Would you like a global damage reduction to go with that, because everything is going to get alpha'd with your system.

No they will not become useless, they would be in their right spot for a better balance system and no they would not get ONLY 15K EHP.
Without even trying hard Zealot with 800mm T2 plate DCU II 2 hardeners gets already 32.5K EHP vs omnidmg and you have 3 low slots left to pimp the crap out of lasers.
Add 2 T1 trimarks and it gets 40.2K EHP vs omnidmg with 78.8-75.1-68.1-83 before fleet boosts, ad an extra ANP and you're still left with 2 lows to pimp dps adding extra EHP (50.2K before fleet boosts which is already huge for a cruiser).

I'm aware fleets are all about bazillions of EHP with crappy dps per ship because numbers it's all it matters, CCP is aware of that too so if instead of crappy balances they started to fix modules size to ships they could actually make proper balances regarding ships base EHP and resistances without fearing at some point players would come with obvious cookie cutter or overtank fits.




Shield tanking is about bursting amirite? - I'm sure you can plug a fit on EFT/Pyfa and figure the same numbers I did on Zealot.
And I'm actually about to see drones killing that fast the shield tanker unless it's an afk one or unable to kill drones with his own or his guns.

In the end this changes would bring a much better balance including smaller groups to hurt larger ones if instead of going through bazillions of EHP they had the choice of bringing the right ships comp vs the larger fleet.
Choices should have to be made from all sides and not the current one where everything is about the larger number in fleet and larger EHP buffers.



At all, if something I'm all for more gank less tank, modules size restriction would force players to make real important choices from fittings to which ship undock with instead of the current meta. Numbers would still have the upper hand and more ships destruction can't be bad for the game.

More gank less tank, we have already super caps and sov structures idiocy of HP numbers no need to continue this hilarious bad design with smaller ships or at least make it differently than current lol'ish ones.