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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1181 - 2013-08-09 17:35:29 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Heribeck Weathers wrote:


Interestingly enough Gallente used to be almost as slow as amarr but have recently been getting speed buff in large propotions brining them closer to mimatar lvls, greatly reducing their disadvantage for getting in close, especialy when they only usualy have to burn say 15-25k to get a scram on where they then have an overwhelming dps advantage even if 30% of their tank is already gone. Not saying thsi is bad but just that amarr could overcome some of their weakness eventualy.



Yes, this was a most welcome change. Prior to this, Gallente were the worst and most underused PVP ships in the game, bar none.

The speed increase has also incidentally affected Amarr ships because of the new honeycombing skill and the fact that active armour tanking rigs now nerf powergrid rather than speed.

I know, I know... no-one active armour tanks (except me in a hyperion because I like a challenge). But that's perhaps being solved by the new buffs to local reppers. We'll see.


I wouldnt say that, i fly dule rep SFIs, dule rep + plate prophecys, and Dule Rep Thorax's quite often. their speeds are amazing and they have the magical 4 mids i belive needed to active armor tank, unfortunatly most amarr boats dont have this. Over all I think if amarr got a nice sig decrease across the board it would help out their playstyle much in the same way speed helped Galent in their roll.
Eldrith Jhandar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1182 - 2013-08-09 17:41:56 UTC
Heribeck Weathers wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Heribeck Weathers wrote:


Interestingly enough Gallente used to be almost as slow as amarr but have recently been getting speed buff in large propotions brining them closer to mimatar lvls, greatly reducing their disadvantage for getting in close, especialy when they only usualy have to burn say 15-25k to get a scram on where they then have an overwhelming dps advantage even if 30% of their tank is already gone. Not saying thsi is bad but just that amarr could overcome some of their weakness eventualy.



Yes, this was a most welcome change. Prior to this, Gallente were the worst and most underused PVP ships in the game, bar none.

The speed increase has also incidentally affected Amarr ships because of the new honeycombing skill and the fact that active armour tanking rigs now nerf powergrid rather than speed.

I know, I know... no-one active armour tanks (except me in a hyperion because I like a challenge). But that's perhaps being solved by the new buffs to local reppers. We'll see.


I wouldnt say that, i fly dule rep SFIs, dule rep + plate prophecys, and Dule Rep Thorax's quite often. their speeds are amazing and they have the magical 4 mids i belive needed to active armor tank, unfortunatly most amarr boats dont have this. Over all I think if amarr got a nice sig decrease across the board it would help out their playstyle much in the same way speed helped Galent in their roll.



A cruiser might be ok active tanking with 4 mids but with a bc I just don't think it's nearly as viable with only 4, I think 5 is the magic number for an active tanked large ship
Just look at the myrm and Hyperion, 5/6 and 5/7 reapectcely
Sigras
Conglomo
#1183 - 2013-08-09 18:26:08 UTC
DAE want actual dedicated command ships and not super HACs?
Fal Dara
Vortex Command Corporation
The Divine Warriors
#1184 - 2013-08-09 18:56:53 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
:Edit: Updates posted on August 7th :Edit:


Astarte:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
7.5%(+2.5) bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness
Command Ships skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret rate of fire (was 5% damage)
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff
3% bonus to strength of Armored Warfare and Skirmish Warfare links
Fixed Bonus:
Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H, 4 M, 6 L, 5 turrets (-2), 2 launchers (+2)
Fittings: 1350 PWG (-100), 440 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3400(-444) / 4900(+576) / 5000(+195)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60(+10) / 85(+7.5) / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 67.5(+8.13) / 83.75(+8.13) / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3000(+187.5) / 667s(+41.7) / 4.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 155 / 0.7(+0.03) / 12300000 (-950000) / 11.94s (-0.34)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km (+20) / 200 / 8(+1)
Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric (+5)
Signature radius: 300
Cargo capacity: 400


As some one who flies this ship often, i am OUTRAGED!

I realize that you likley moved the ship's 7 guns down to 5 because you think the bonuses make up for it (they DONT!), or that the hybrid changes will make up for it--THEY DONT.

Give it atleast 6 turrets, it's a command ship, not a cruiser!

and MISSILE launchers on a gallente ship? are you on drugs? No gallente in their right mind will ever train missiles!

The powergrid nerf doesnt bother me too much, There have been times that if i were to fit a plate i would NEED that 100, but it's not that bad. i see you want to keep it 'glass cannon' ....

only you're taking out the cannon part too!

SOLUTION

6 turrets.

5% Rof bonus instead of 7.5% (these things are cap hungry mothers, RoF bonus is a direct nerf)

lose the launchers. compleatly.

change the falloff bonus to tracking (like navy brute) 3% per level (to offset the tracking nerf you had in mind for rails).

..........................

I dont know what on earth you're thinking, but a command ship needs to be powerful, useful..

not nerfed beyond all reason, given an extra and useless weapons system, RoF bonused to finish off its cap (which was bad to start), gah!

i would even live with 25mb drone badnwidth on top of ALL the rest of that, for the rest of what i suggested.

... and i love drones.

PLEASE consider this for the astarte.

SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#1185 - 2013-08-09 19:08:42 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:

Sry for breaking your Little Amarrian Heart...
*words*


I'm Gallente, specialized in projectiles and capless weapons mostly, Minmatar hulls, my connection to Amarr in general is about as heart warming as my connection to you, which your continued poor behaviour guarantees.
I occasionally fly other ships and I like things balanced, as opposed to your agenda where you want lasers to stay the second rate weapon system it is at the moment; Spouting in essence "lasers are fine" doesn't cut it because that is just a lie and anyone with a moderately objective view can see that.


Soon you'll be telling me base HML damage isn't too low, blaster damage isn't too high and the talos is fine with drones and tracking for its intended role as well... yeah no, when **** stinks I point where it is so CCP can hopefully pick it up, if you want to pretend it smells like roses whilst dancing on the turds that is all on you pal but you'll be dancing alone.

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1186 - 2013-08-09 19:11:04 UTC
Heribeck Weathers wrote:

I wouldnt say that, i fly dule rep SFIs, dule rep + plate prophecys, and Dule Rep Thorax's quite often. their speeds are amazing and they have the magical 4 mids i belive needed to active armor tank, unfortunatly most amarr boats dont have this. Over all I think if amarr got a nice sig decrease across the board it would help out their playstyle much in the same way speed helped Galent in their roll.


To be honest, and a little off topic, in my view armour reppers need to consume 10% less cap. That would allow you to run 2 with 1 cap booster, finally making 3-mid ships viable for armour tanking and allowing a 5-mid ship to fit something useful like tracking computers, target painters, ecm, or even a drone navigation mod.

Perhaps then you'd even see the proteus' active tanking subsystem used in pvp in the same way the tengu's is.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1187 - 2013-08-09 19:23:30 UTC
SOL Ranger wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:

Sry for breaking your Little Amarrian Heart...
*words*


I'm Gallente, specialized in projectiles and capless weapons mostly, Minmatar hulls, my connection to Amarr in general is about as heart warming as my connection to you, which your continued poor behaviour guarantees.
I occasionally fly other ships and I like things balanced, as opposed to your agenda where you want lasers to stay the second rate weapon system it is at the moment; Spouting in essence "lasers are fine" doesn't cut it because that is just a lie and anyone with a moderately objective view can see that.


Soon you'll be telling me base HML damage isn't too low, blaster damage isn't too high and the talos is fine with drones and tracking for its intended role as well... yeah no, when **** stinks I point where it is so CCP can hopefully pick it up, if you want to pretend it smells like roses whilst dancing on the turds that is all on you pal but you'll be dancing alone.


Geeze, whats your problem, just get over it if you cant handle another opinion.

Its just isnt right to pervert the difference between each races with skills to make them all equal.

Laser without cap problems would be just like Hybrid, if this is your Goal, go ahead, ruin the game. As CCP had not taken enough of the Old Spirit of Eve throught all the rebalancing already, no just for the sake of it make them equal!


Oh, my bad i am the Troll here, i forgot...


Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1188 - 2013-08-09 19:43:03 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Heribeck Weathers wrote:

I wouldnt say that, i fly dule rep SFIs, dule rep + plate prophecys, and Dule Rep Thorax's quite often. their speeds are amazing and they have the magical 4 mids i belive needed to active armor tank, unfortunatly most amarr boats dont have this. Over all I think if amarr got a nice sig decrease across the board it would help out their playstyle much in the same way speed helped Galent in their roll.


To be honest, and a little off topic, in my view armour reppers need to consume 10% less cap. That would allow you to run 2 with 1 cap booster, finally making 3-mid ships viable for armour tanking and allowing a 5-mid ship to fit something useful like tracking computers, target painters, ecm, or even a drone navigation mod.

Perhaps then you'd even see the proteus' active tanking subsystem used in pvp in the same way the tengu's is.


I agree especialy since it usualy takes two reps ro equal out to a shield tank. would be nice to see dule rep Abso's more often.
SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#1189 - 2013-08-09 19:55:32 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:


I got a better Idea!

Skillname: Trolololo Amarr

-25% Cap Use for all Amarr Ships per Level and 50% more Tracking, Range or Damage if the Laser Crystal does need it.

... Please we dont need Special Race Skills...



You seriously believe anyone will take you seriously after starting like that, that is not an opinion piece, that is trolling.


Quote:
Geeze, whats your problem, just get over it if you cant handle another opinion.

Its just isnt right to pervert the difference between each races with skills to make them all equal.

Laser without cap problems would be just like Hybrid, if this is your Goal, go ahead, ruin the game. As CCP had not taken enough of the Old Spirit of Eve throught all the rebalancing already, no just for the sake of it make them equal!

Oh, my bad i am the Troll here, i forgot...



Lasers would still have cap problems after a 50% reduction, do you even fly Amarr at all?
You say the 50% cap reduction is perverting the difference of races, so every ship with 4 turrets or capacitor use reduction with lasers is perverted?
Seriously man, you're stuck in some kind of principled limbo where you refuse to look at the facts and throw hyperbole around like it's the only thing you know.

Now you play the victim and moan about being unjustly labelled a troll and a condescending one you are, you do not discuss the topic, you spout vague principled phrases which are largely unfounded in the big picture of current state of affairs facts and think you've somehow shown some kind of evidence that refutes mine and many others claims on lasers being too reliant on capacitor.

Try to not respond to my posts as you will have nothing useful to bring to them, next time you initiate a discussion try not to be a jackass from the start and it will probably serve you better.

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
Rain6638
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1190 - 2013-08-09 20:54:54 UTC
give the nighthawk torps. then i'll be happy

[ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337
VanKenMar
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1191 - 2013-08-09 22:20:47 UTC
Good to see how Eve is changing, but I grow old and my beloved Phantasm is still in the Ice Age! Dont care about Command ships, this is not my fairy tale so far, small scale pvp can be enough exciting without changes of the Command ships. But for the All Gods of Salvaging and Loot please do some upgrades to Phantasm!
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1192 - 2013-08-09 22:40:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Fal Dara wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
:Edit: Updates posted on August 7th :Edit:


Astarte:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
7.5%(+2.5) bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness
Command Ships skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret rate of fire (was 5% damage)
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff
3% bonus to strength of Armored Warfare and Skirmish Warfare links
Fixed Bonus:
Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H, 4 M, 6 L, 5 turrets (-2), 2 launchers (+2)
Fittings: 1350 PWG (-100), 440 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3400(-444) / 4900(+576) / 5000(+195)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60(+10) / 85(+7.5) / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 67.5(+8.13) / 83.75(+8.13) / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3000(+187.5) / 667s(+41.7) / 4.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 155 / 0.7(+0.03) / 12300000 (-950000) / 11.94s (-0.34)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km (+20) / 200 / 8(+1)
Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric (+5)
Signature radius: 300
Cargo capacity: 400


As some one who flies this ship often, i am OUTRAGED!

I realize that you likley moved the ship's 7 guns down to 5 because you think the bonuses make up for it (they DONT!), or that the hybrid changes will make up for it--THEY DONT.

Give it atleast 6 turrets, it's a command ship, not a cruiser!

and MISSILE launchers on a gallente ship? are you on drugs? No gallente in their right mind will ever train missiles!

The powergrid nerf doesnt bother me too much, There have been times that if i were to fit a plate i would NEED that 100, but it's not that bad. i see you want to keep it 'glass cannon' ....

only you're taking out the cannon part too!

SOLUTION

6 turrets.

5% Rof bonus instead of 7.5% (these things are cap hungry mothers, RoF bonus is a direct nerf)

lose the launchers. compleatly.

change the falloff bonus to tracking (like navy brute) 3% per level (to offset the tracking nerf you had in mind for rails).

..........................

I dont know what on earth you're thinking, but a command ship needs to be powerful, useful..

not nerfed beyond all reason, given an extra and useless weapons system, RoF bonused to finish off its cap (which was bad to start), gah!

i would even live with 25mb drone badnwidth on top of ALL the rest of that, for the rest of what i suggested.

... and i love drones.

PLEASE consider this for the astarte.


Before raging, do the math. Number of effective turrats IS going up at max skills, though only slightly as the buff in 1 damage bonus and the conversion and buff to ROF on the other bonus more than make up the difference in turret count. Cap is only 1 effective turret higher than before, which is manageable and the rail tracking nerf is intended to partly offset the DPS boost. In the end that's a considerable increase in rail damage.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1193 - 2013-08-09 23:16:01 UTC
VanKenMar wrote:
Good to see how Eve is changing, but I grow old and my beloved Phantasm is still in the Ice Age! Dont care about Command ships, this is not my fairy tale so far, small scale pvp can be enough exciting without changes of the Command ships. But for the All Gods of Salvaging and Loot please do some upgrades to Phantasm!


I agree with you. I have played with the new navy cruisers on SiSi and they pretty much always own a phantasm.

That doesn't seem right to me.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1194 - 2013-08-10 00:03:36 UTC
Heribeck Weathers wrote:
...I wouldnt say that, i fly dule rep SFIs, dule rep + plate prophecys, and Dule Rep Thorax's quite often. their speeds are amazing and they have the magical 4 mids i belive needed to active armor tank, unfortunatly most amarr boats dont have this. Over all I think if amarr got a nice sig decrease across the board it would help out their playstyle much in the same way speed helped Galent in their roll.

Four mids and low sigs are all fine suggestions, but if you really want to help Amarr then have the lasers output warrant the cap drain instead of those silly LED flashlights they get for the cap investment.

Buff lasers to a point where they out-damage the Old Testament God (ie. post patch Gallente! Smile) by a healthy margin but suck so much cap that injector is needed beyond the 60-90s mark and introduce the high tracking 3rd pulses in M/L sizes .. gives you flavour, usefulness, vulnerability etc. all in one go.
Works for blobs as cap can be outsourced in the form of Guardians, works for solo/small-gang where injectors are often added anyway to run SAAR's/neuts and it even works for PvE where damage = tank so one can throw in more relays and such to get the 5-6min cap needed for most missions/spawns.

The lack of flavour is what gets me the most. Previous racially restricted bonuses are scattered all over the place and ship lines seem to be geared towards offering all options within each race so that one need never cross-train for anything
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1195 - 2013-08-10 00:15:45 UTC
wait a minute, only a few months ago the general advice was "if you want to pvp in battleships, use amarr". Before that it was "only use minmatar". And suddenly lazorz suck? Come come. You just need to control your engagements with good tactics. Get range, keep range, use ewar (such as tracking disruptors and neuts) to keep others from attacking you.

Lasers have a place - good tracking, range and full damage all the way out.

Autocannons are very good for skirmishing but only apply toothpick damage at scorch range.

Blasters, well... if you're close enough to use blasters, you *have* to win. Because there is no way you're going to extract yourself if it's going wrong. No way in hell. You're absolutely f*cking committed. That's a hell of a price to pay for all the damage they do.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1196 - 2013-08-10 00:41:56 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
wait a minute, only a few months ago the general advice was "if you want to pvp in battleships, use amarr". Before that it was "only use minmatar". And suddenly lazorz suck? Come come. You just need to control your engagements with good tactics. Get range, keep range, use ewar (such as tracking disruptors and neuts) to keep others from attacking you.

Lasers have a place - good tracking, range and full damage all the way out.

Autocannons are very good for skirmishing but only apply toothpick damage at scorch range.

Blasters, well... if you're close enough to use blasters, you *have* to win. Because there is no way you're going to extract yourself if it's going wrong. No way in hell. You're absolutely f*cking committed. That's a hell of a price to pay for all the damage they do.


Lasers are utter ****.


Scorch is completely amazing.

They even out. Unless you can't use scorch, then lasers suck.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1197 - 2013-08-10 01:15:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Voith wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
wait a minute, only a few months ago the general advice was "if you want to pvp in battleships, use amarr". Before that it was "only use minmatar". And suddenly lazorz suck? Come come. You just need to control your engagements with good tactics. Get range, keep range, use ewar (such as tracking disruptors and neuts) to keep others from attacking you.

Lasers have a place - good tracking, range and full damage all the way out.

Autocannons are very good for skirmishing but only apply toothpick damage at scorch range.

Blasters, well... if you're close enough to use blasters, you *have* to win. Because there is no way you're going to extract yourself if it's going wrong. No way in hell. You're absolutely f*cking committed. That's a hell of a price to pay for all the damage they do.


Lasers are utter ****.


Scorch is completely amazing.

They even out. Unless you can't use scorch, then lasers suck.

Each weapon system has its strong points and it drawbacks.

in order of best base stats comparing large Blasters, AC, and Lasers (left - best, right - worst):

Damage modifier: Blasters, Lasers, Autocannons

Range: (combined optimal/falloff): Lasers, Autocannons, Blasters

Tracking: Blasters, Autocannons, Lasers

Capacitor Friendly: Autocannons, Lasers, Blasters

Reload Time: Lasers, Blasters, Autocannons

lets use a point system to accumulate a score shall we? (3 point for best, 2 for second, 1 for worst)

Blasters = 10

Lasers = 9

Autocannons = 9

Puts blasters in the lead by 1 point with autocannons and lasers tied. Seems pretty fair to me.

And before anyone mentions ammo i will say i didnt include them because the bonuses damage they produce dont always match up with other weapon systems. if it turns out the ammo is what needs to be fixed talk about that.
Sigras
Conglomo
#1198 - 2013-08-10 05:18:04 UTC
Fal Dara wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
:Edit: Updates posted on August 7th :Edit:


Astarte:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
7.5%(+2.5) bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness
Command Ships skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret rate of fire (was 5% damage)
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff
3% bonus to strength of Armored Warfare and Skirmish Warfare links
Fixed Bonus:
Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules
Slot layout: 7 H, 4 M, 6 L, 5 turrets (-2), 2 launchers (+2)
Fittings: 1350 PWG (-100), 440 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3400(-444) / 4900(+576) / 5000(+195)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 60(+10) / 85(+7.5) / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 67.5(+8.13) / 83.75(+8.13) / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3000(+187.5) / 667s(+41.7) / 4.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 155 / 0.7(+0.03) / 12300000 (-950000) / 11.94s (-0.34)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75(+25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km (+20) / 200 / 8(+1)
Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric (+5)
Signature radius: 300
Cargo capacity: 400


As some one who flies this ship often, i am OUTRAGED!

I realize that you likley moved the ship's 7 guns down to 5 because you think the bonuses make up for it (they DONT!), or that the hybrid changes will make up for it--THEY DONT.

Give it atleast 6 turrets, it's a command ship, not a cruiser!

and MISSILE launchers on a gallente ship? are you on drugs? No gallente in their right mind will ever train missiles!

The powergrid nerf doesnt bother me too much, There have been times that if i were to fit a plate i would NEED that 100, but it's not that bad. i see you want to keep it 'glass cannon' ....

only you're taking out the cannon part too!

SOLUTION

6 turrets.

5% Rof bonus instead of 7.5% (these things are cap hungry mothers, RoF bonus is a direct nerf)

lose the launchers. compleatly.

change the falloff bonus to tracking (like navy brute) 3% per level (to offset the tracking nerf you had in mind for rails).

..........................

I dont know what on earth you're thinking, but a command ship needs to be powerful, useful..

not nerfed beyond all reason, given an extra and useless weapons system, RoF bonused to finish off its cap (which was bad to start), gah!

i would even live with 25mb drone badnwidth on top of ALL the rest of that, for the rest of what i suggested.

... and i love drones.

PLEASE consider this for the astarte.

In what way do the bonuses not make up for the loss of turrets? In the way where it does more damage now than before? or in the way where it takes less ammo now than before?

If you want to be taken seriously i suggest you not post things that make you sound like an idiot.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1199 - 2013-08-10 05:34:07 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Voith wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
wait a minute, only a few months ago the general advice was "if you want to pvp in battleships, use amarr". Before that it was "only use minmatar". And suddenly lazorz suck? Come come. You just need to control your engagements with good tactics. Get range, keep range, use ewar (such as tracking disruptors and neuts) to keep others from attacking you.

Lasers have a place - good tracking, range and full damage all the way out.

Autocannons are very good for skirmishing but only apply toothpick damage at scorch range.

Blasters, well... if you're close enough to use blasters, you *have* to win. Because there is no way you're going to extract yourself if it's going wrong. No way in hell. You're absolutely f*cking committed. That's a hell of a price to pay for all the damage they do.


Lasers are utter ****.


Scorch is completely amazing.

They even out. Unless you can't use scorch, then lasers suck.

Each weapon system has its strong points and it drawbacks.

in order of best base stats comparing large Blasters, AC, and Lasers (left - best, right - worst):

Damage modifier: Blasters, Lasers, Autocannons

Range: (combined optimal/falloff): Lasers, Autocannons, Blasters

Tracking: Blasters, Autocannons, Lasers

Capacitor Friendly: Autocannons, Lasers, Blasters

Reload Time: Lasers, Blasters, Autocannons

lets use a point system to accumulate a score shall we? (3 point for best, 2 for second, 1 for worst)

Blasters = 10

Lasers = 9

Autocannons = 9

Puts blasters in the lead by 1 point with autocannons and lasers tied. Seems pretty fair to me.

And before anyone mentions ammo i will say i didnt include them because the bonuses damage they produce dont always match up with other weapon systems. if it turns out the ammo is what needs to be fixed talk about that.


^This and yeah Ammo need some Balance the closecombat turrets are fine.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1200 - 2013-08-10 08:00:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
Rowells wrote:
in order of best base stats comparing large Blasters, AC, and Lasers (left - best, right - worst): ...

Decent enough spin attempt, but you overvalue reload time and neglected to include fittings, tiericide has made most equal size ships fittings almost the same with variances based on amount of mids and tank type mostly.

Damage modifer: Blasters <22%> Lasers <3%> Auto

Range: (combined optimal/2xfalloff): Autos <8%> Lasers <47%> Blasters

Tracking: Blasters <14%> Autocannons <30%> Lasers

Capacitor Friendly: Autos --- Blasters <316%> Lasers (NB: Even after hull bonus of -50% lasers are worse!)

Fitting ((cpu+grid)/2): Autos <23%> Blasters <10%> Lasers

Reload Time: Irrelevant as laser swap only really changes range and not damage (no uses all the above standard ammos except for beams), so is never actually (ab)used as speeds have been equalized somewhat. Scorch and MF, chosen before a fight in most cases .. but if you must include it then add 3 to Lasers, 2 to Blasters and 1 to Autos.

Blasters = 13
Lasers = 7
Autocannons = 12

See what happen when you twist it ever so slightly and refrain from spreading disinformation (blasters worse on cap than lasers, thats a new one! Smile). Lasers and Autos have a single point up in the air from range dependent on whether you use 1x or 2x falloff and completely ignore TE's effect, but it does not impact the otherwise very clear picture: Lasers are one adjustment behind the others.
It makes sense given that projectiles had a major revamp, kicking off Winmatar and Blasters recently got a minor revamp/tweak.