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What class of combat anomaly tends to be more profitable than running Lvl 4 missions?
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Operator XIII
My Tax Shelter
#1 - 2013-08-07 19:16:06 UTC
Wondering if anyone has found a general cutoff point at which you make more money off of clearing anomalies than you could off running a typical Lvl 4 mission.

For example, I would assume that Hi-sec anomalies (class 1-4) are never more profitable than Lvl 4 missions, as they don't spawn BS's. Correct? But what about things when you start talking about Low-sec anomalies?

Just wondering how to maximize my time for profit.
Heavensend
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-08-07 19:46:19 UTC
If i do my missions with cherry picking i get around 100-130m ISK/h. 3k ISK/LP.
Long time ago i lived in 0.0 but i guess flying anos will not bring much more income.
Most money per/h i made with clearing 6/10 DEDs. But i mostly had really luck with drops.
Flying 4s with the right Ship and good skills is very profitable but very very boring
Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
#3 - 2013-08-07 19:52:50 UTC
Operator XIII wrote:
Wondering if anyone has found a general cutoff point at which you make more money off of clearing anomalies than you could off running a typical Lvl 4 mission.

For example, I would assume that Hi-sec anomalies (class 1-4) are never more profitable than Lvl 4 missions, as they don't spawn BS's. Correct? But what about things when you start talking about Low-sec anomalies?

Just wondering how to maximize my time for profit.


High sec anomalies are never going to be more profitable than level 4's, even if you pick up a 300 million ISK module once or twice a week.

Simply because you can't control the anomalies, everything about the distribution and rewards are unpredictable.

level 4's are fairly predictable, and if you run your missions in places with multiple level 4 agents, you can knock out the higher-grossing missions more often with a little juggling.

The benefit of anomalies are if you are willing to venture into low sec or null, either to chase down escalations or tackle the harder sites. With more reward comes more risk of losing your ship, compared to never having any real risk in a level 4 if you respect the triggers.

My advice is to do both... if you are missioning and an anomaly pops up nearby, go clear it out and go back to missioning.
Holgrak Blacksmith
Prophets of Motav
#4 - 2013-08-07 20:25:18 UTC
Gianath wrote:
Operator XIII wrote:
Wondering if anyone has found a general cutoff point at which you make more money off of clearing anomalies than you could off running a typical Lvl 4 mission.

For example, I would assume that Hi-sec anomalies (class 1-4) are never more profitable than Lvl 4 missions, as they don't spawn BS's. Correct? But what about things when you start talking about Low-sec anomalies?

Just wondering how to maximize my time for profit.


High sec anomalies are never going to be more profitable than level 4's, even if you pick up a 300 million ISK module once or twice a week.

Simply because you can't control the anomalies, everything about the distribution and rewards are unpredictable.

level 4's are fairly predictable, and if you run your missions in places with multiple level 4 agents, you can knock out the higher-grossing missions more often with a little juggling.

The benefit of anomalies are if you are willing to venture into low sec or null, either to chase down escalations or tackle the harder sites. With more reward comes more risk of losing your ship, compared to never having any real risk in a level 4 if you respect the triggers.

My advice is to do both... if you are missioning and an anomaly pops up nearby, go clear it out and go back to missioning.


Errr what?

In null the same anoms spawn constantly and are dependent on the mili level of the system. Having done both I find regular null sec anoms to be far more profitable, even at mili lvl 4. Scannable combat sites in null make lvl 4 missions seem like making isk by mining in a venture.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#5 - 2013-08-07 20:43:56 UTC
Lowsec anomalies are not worth it. The lowsec DED sites however can be fun.

If you want to run Anomalies in 0.0 you really want to be in a SOV holding Alliance.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
exxon halliburton
i'm from the government and i'm here to help
#6 - 2013-08-08 05:05:23 UTC
Heavensend wrote:
If i do my missions with cherry picking i get around 100-130m ISK/h. 3k ISK/LP.


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/I-dont-believe-you.gif

try half that
CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#7 - 2013-08-08 05:44:29 UTC
Null sec in a Sov controlling Alliance is the better answer for your question I think.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#8 - 2013-08-08 05:52:55 UTC
exxon halliburton wrote:
Heavensend wrote:
If i do my missions with cherry picking i get around 100-130m ISK/h. 3k ISK/LP.


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/I-dont-believe-you.gif

try half that


He gave the basis for his number - 3k isk/lp. I have a list of missions that do over 65mil/isk hr (in space including average number of jumps and warps from the station) in a plain t1 dominix based on 1k isk/lp, from a 0.7 agent, with imperfect payout skills, which is sufficiently long that I could reject all other missions and keep the agent standing under control.

So you either need to reject or accept his figures based on whether or not you can accept, prove or disprove 3k isk/lp.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#9 - 2013-08-08 06:02:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Quote:
In null the same anoms spawn constantly and are dependent on the mili level of the system. Having done both I find regular null sec anoms to be far more profitable, even at mili lvl 4. Scannable combat sites in null make lvl 4 missions seem like making isk by mining in a venture.


I've made 350 mil an hour in my Venture.

Quote:
try half that


Lol. 65 mil is kinda lowballin it, sorry to burst your warp bubble. Maybe in a Maelstrom or something.

As far as the OP's question goes...
Quote:

High sec anomalies are never going to be more profitable than level 4's, even if you pick up a 300 million ISK module once or twice a week.


This ^^

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Steve Spooner
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-08-08 06:54:42 UTC
I nabbed 1 bill in loot in about an hour split between me and another person. So for 1 hours of work in nullsec combat 7/10 and 8/10 I got this month's PLEX down in a hour. With proper system upgrades this increases to a more regular thing and more iskies.
Operator XIII
My Tax Shelter
#11 - 2013-08-08 14:13:23 UTC
My god I really need to find a Null-sec corp who will let me in on these PvE opportunities during PvP downtime... I find PvE with a risk of PvP very fun and rewarding ;) glutton for punishment...
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#12 - 2013-08-08 17:20:19 UTC
exxon halliburton wrote:
Heavensend wrote:
If i do my missions with cherry picking i get around 100-130m ISK/h. 3k ISK/LP.


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/I-dont-believe-you.gif

try half that

You can get about 60k LP in one hour in a 0.5 system with a Machariel.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
Nambu
Two Dogs Operations
#13 - 2013-08-09 15:34:35 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
exxon halliburton wrote:
Heavensend wrote:
If i do my missions with cherry picking i get around 100-130m ISK/h. 3k ISK/LP.


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/I-dont-believe-you.gif

try half that

You can get about 60k LP in one hour in a 0.5 system with a Machariel.


Some quick back of the napkin math says that that is only in perfect conditions.
Say you get 6k LP per mission, which you won't and even if you did, it would not be every mission. That would be 10 missions in 1 hour, which would be 6 minutes a mission. 6 minute missions are possible, but consistantly I strongly doubt it. As well, the sorts of missions that would approach 6k LP dont tend to be 6 minute missions.

More problems with the assetion: Assume you could get 60k LP in an hour. Say you get 1.1k/LP on all 60k, so 66mil. You spend much more than an hour, converting, moving and selling those LP goods. You did not earn that 66mil in 1 hour, you earned it in 1hr + all the time you spend moving your LP goods.

Lastly anyone claiming a reliable figure much above 1.1k/LP is either:
a) high
b) someone can't do math
c) running pirate missions
d) running SoE missions

See: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/lpstore/ I used the Forge, and buy orders, as using sell orders further dilutes the isk/h argument.

Null sec runners get null sec rewards, so c is fine. D is an exception as for the time Sisters probing gear is hot (but cooling) and there is only one high sec source for SoE L4s (hint why is Osmon so busy). Right now SoE tops out at 1.9k/LP. If you are getting 3k/LP outside of null/SoE lp then its case b, and your client cant do math and is a useful sucker.

I don't dispute that 60mil/hr or slightly more is possible in L4s, just somepeoples absurd LP claims to make their totals.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#14 - 2013-08-09 16:43:51 UTC
Nambu wrote:
l0rd carlos wrote:
exxon halliburton wrote:
Heavensend wrote:
If i do my missions with cherry picking i get around 100-130m ISK/h. 3k ISK/LP.


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/I-dont-believe-you.gif

try half that

You can get about 60k LP in one hour in a 0.5 system with a Machariel.


Some quick back of the napkin math says that that is only in perfect conditions.
Say you get 6k LP per mission, which you won't and even if you did, it would not be every mission. That would be 10 missions in 1 hour, which would be 6 minutes a mission. 6 minute missions are possible, but consistantly I strongly doubt it. As well, the sorts of missions that would approach 6k LP dont tend to be 6 minute missions.

More problems with the assetion: Assume you could get 60k LP in an hour. Say you get 1.1k/LP on all 60k, so 66mil. You spend much more than an hour, converting, moving and selling those LP goods. You did not earn that 66mil in 1 hour, you earned it in 1hr + all the time you spend moving your LP goods.

Lastly anyone claiming a reliable figure much above 1.1k/LP is either:
a) high
b) someone can't do math
c) running pirate missions
d) running SoE missions

See: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/lpstore/ I used the Forge, and buy orders, as using sell orders further dilutes the isk/h argument.

Null sec runners get null sec rewards, so c is fine. D is an exception as for the time Sisters probing gear is hot (but cooling) and there is only one high sec source for SoE L4s (hint why is Osmon so busy). Right now SoE tops out at 1.9k/LP. If you are getting 3k/LP outside of null/SoE lp then its case b, and your client cant do math and is a useful sucker.

I don't dispute that 60mil/hr or slightly more is possible in L4s, just somepeoples absurd LP claims to make their totals.

Sorry, I just looked it up again, it was 50k LP/h and not 60k LP/h
You can see the statistk of the Machariel Pilot here in the spoiler. 38/81 means he got the mision 81 times, but only accepted it 38 times.


You pick the missions you want and blitzt them. recons 1/3 can be done in 3 minutes, from acception the mission to getting the reward.

1,1k ISK/lp is really, reaaaally low. I wrote my own ISK/lp calculation tool (in java) before fuzzy released his. And I also did help fuzzy to make his better. Yes, it's a normals highsec mission agent. I also did doublecheck everything in a spreadsheet.
You can get the most ISK/lp out of buying the tags cheap.

No, you don't need to spend an hour hauling the LP stuff around. Just make a transport contract, it cost almost nothing. Under 20mil per 1 bil.

It's not nice that you Insult me :(

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
stoicfaux
#15 - 2013-08-09 17:13:02 UTC
Nambu wrote:

Some quick back of the napkin math says that that is only in perfect conditions.
Say you get 6k LP per mission, which you won't and even if you did, it would not be every mission. That would be 10 missions in 1 hour, which would be 6 minutes a mission. 6 minute missions are possible, but consistantly I strongly doubt it. As well, the sorts of missions that would approach 6k LP dont tend to be 6 minute missions.

You can cherry-pick missions by declining them more than once every four hours by relying on your *faction* standings to get access to the agent.

Also, read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3197863#post3197863


Quote:
More problems with the assetion: Assume you could get 60k LP in an hour. Say you get 1.1k/LP on all 60k, so 66mil. You spend much more than an hour, converting, moving and selling those LP goods. You did not earn that 66mil in 1 hour, you earned it in 1hr + all the time you spend moving your LP goods.

Valid point. It's fairer to say that you can generate X isk/hour in potential isk and/or assets. While it would be nice to get it all immediately in liquid isk, you will need some time to convert that LP to isk. However, a lot of the LP to ISK work can be done afk via courier contracts and market orders.

Quote:
Lastly anyone claiming a reliable figure much above 1.1k/LP is either:
a) high
b) someone can't do math
c) running pirate missions
d) running SoE missions

Or they know something you don't. And you don't. Big smile

Quote:
See: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/lpstore/ I used the Forge, and buy orders, as using sell orders further dilutes the isk/h argument.

It's incomplete (one major gap that I can see so far,) which is why you don't know something.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#16 - 2013-08-09 17:42:18 UTC
Operator XIII wrote:
Wondering if anyone has found a general cutoff point at which you make more money off of clearing anomalies than you could off running a typical Lvl 4 mission.

For example, I would assume that Hi-sec anomalies (class 1-4) are never more profitable than Lvl 4 missions, as they don't spawn BS's. Correct? But what about things when you start talking about Low-sec anomalies?

Just wondering how to maximize my time for profit.


Wow, what a massive derail your thread took lol.

To actually answer your question:

If you have an upgraded system and a ship that can apply damage well (machariel up close, Navy raven, Tech1 typhoon etc etc), the bottom line "profitable" anomalies in terms of isk per tick and per hour are the "named" rally points of each race ie Serpentis Forsaken Rally Point, Sansha Forsaken Rally Point ect ect.

"Normal" hubs (Guristas Hub, Serpentis hub ect) are slightly less isk than the named rally points. "Named" hubs (like Guristas Forsaken Hub. Serpentis Forlorn Hub,), Havens and Sancutms if run correctly are better isk per hour than the vast majority of high sec level 4 missions.

Anything that says "Hidden" sucks donkey balls no matter what it is lol.

The anoms below the named rally points (like regular rally point, dens, and such) are not as good isk as you can make in high sec lvl 4s.
Nambu
Two Dogs Operations
#17 - 2013-08-09 17:46:03 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Nambu wrote:

Some quick back of the napkin math says that that is only in perfect conditions.
Say you get 6k LP per mission, which you won't and even if you did, it would not be every mission. That would be 10 missions in 1 hour, which would be 6 minutes a mission. 6 minute missions are possible, but consistantly I strongly doubt it. As well, the sorts of missions that would approach 6k LP dont tend to be 6 minute missions.

You can cherry-pick missions by declining them more than once every four hours by relying on your *faction* standings to get access to the agent.

Also, read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3197863#post3197863


Quote:
More problems with the assetion: Assume you could get 60k LP in an hour. Say you get 1.1k/LP on all 60k, so 66mil. You spend much more than an hour, converting, moving and selling those LP goods. You did not earn that 66mil in 1 hour, you earned it in 1hr + all the time you spend moving your LP goods.

Valid point. It's fairer to say that you can generate X isk/hour in potential isk and/or assets. While it would be nice to get it all immediately in liquid isk, you will need some time to convert that LP to isk. However, a lot of the LP to ISK work can be done afk via courier contracts and market orders.

Quote:
Lastly anyone claiming a reliable figure much above 1.1k/LP is either:
a) high
b) someone can't do math
c) running pirate missions
d) running SoE missions

Or they know something you don't. And you don't. Big smile

Quote:
See: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/lpstore/ I used the Forge, and buy orders, as using sell orders further dilutes the isk/h argument.

It's incomplete (one major gap that I can see so far,) which is why you don't know something.


You aren't talking CONCORD LP are you, thats incursion and not mission related.
I am not trying to be belligerant. But short of a magic corp that has a whole set of unique rewards, or a set of uniquely unerpriced rewards, I dont see how you're assertation supports reliable 3k/lp conversion (outside of the exceptions I gave). And it would have to be a set as otherwise you would flood the market with any significant cash out. So if there is the magic corp out there that I don't know, I guess I don't know it.

As far as the declining thing, what other missions can you blitz in 3 minutes (calos's assertation) and get 3k lp. I think his 4 examples (recon 1,2,3, special delivery) pay just under 3k with maxed skills (i do not have maxed but extrapolating from the lp I get). I actually do blitz those when I get them so I understand the tactic, I just don't know how many other missions I see regularly that I could add to that list so that I am not completely tanking my corp standing.

As to carlos' point of getting tags and such for the cheap. That dosen't actually increase your isk/lp ratio. Well it does, but at an exactly equal cost to your isk/tag ratio. Tags have a market value that is independent of what you pay for them. If you get them cheap, they are still worth the higher amount, and if you don't count the market value in your calculations, then you are shorting yourself the difference between what you paid and just selling the tags on the market rather than cashing them in. Which is ~amazingly~ exaclty the additional margin you are adding to your isk/lp conversion.

I guess my whole point is that assertations over say 60~80mio/hr are complete pie in the sky, sure its mathematically possible, and maybe you can hit it once in a while, but I doubt you can sustain it for any length of time.
stoicfaux
#18 - 2013-08-09 18:59:08 UTC
Nambu wrote:

You aren't talking CONCORD LP are you, thats incursion and not mission related.

No, not concord LP. Level 4 mission lp.

Quote:
I am not trying to be belligerant. But short of a magic corp that has a whole set of unique rewards, or a set of uniquely unerpriced rewards, I dont see how you're assertation supports reliable 3k/lp conversion (outside of the exceptions I gave).

Your assertion was anything higher than 1.1k isk/lp is insane. 2k is still easy for the items I checked. I can't speak for 3k+.

Quote:
As far as the declining thing, what other missions can you blitz in 3 minutes (calos's assertation) and get 3k lp.

LP per minute is more important. If you want to build 100M isk of LP per hour, then
* @ 1,000isk/LP: you need to earn 1,667 LP per minute.
* @ 2,000isk/LP: you need to earn 833 LP per minute.
* @ 3,000isk/LP: you need to earn 555 LP per minute.


Quote:
As to carlos' point of getting tags and such for the cheap. That dosen't actually increase your isk/lp ratio. Well it does, but at an exactly equal cost to your isk/tag ratio. Tags have a market value that is independent of what you pay for them. If you get them cheap, they are still worth the higher amount, and if you don't count the market value in your calculations, then you are shorting yourself the difference between what you paid and just selling the tags on the market rather than cashing them in. Which is ~amazingly~ exaclty the additional margin you are adding to your isk/lp conversion.

I understand. I look at the conversion rate using buy, sell, and average of buy+sell orders. I also take quantities available into consideration when picking prices. All three cases were above 2k for the items I checked. The variance between buy/sell orders wasn't great.

Quote:
I guess my whole point is that assertations over say 60~80mio/hr are complete pie in the sky, sure its mathematically possible, and maybe you can hit it once in a while, but I doubt you can sustain it for any length of time.

Again, the site you referenced is missing an entire category of items. It's one of the reasons why you can't see 2k+ conversion rates or X million isk in assets generated per hour.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#19 - 2013-08-09 19:47:44 UTC
Nambu wrote:

As far as the declining thing, what other missions can you blitz in 3 minutes (calos's assertation) and get 3k lp. I think his 4 examples (recon 1,2,3, special delivery) pay just under 3k with maxed skills (i do not have maxed but extrapolating from the lp I get). I actually do blitz those when I get them so I understand the tactic, I just don't know how many other missions I see regularly that I could add to that list so that I am not completely tanking my corp standing.

recon I with IV skill in a 0.7 system allready gets 5000 LP, I don't have any record of 0.5 system with all V skill. 3k LP sounds like a 1.0 system.
Nambu wrote:

Tags have a market value that is independent of what you pay for them. .

What i meant was, I buy the tags with buy orders, and sell the LP stuff with Sell Order. That way I can get 2000 to 4000 ISK/lp items in highsec.

If you just buy tags from other people sell order and sell your Items to other people buy order, you get waaaaaaay les ISK/lp. It's not magic.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-08-09 21:28:59 UTC  |  Edited by: The Spod
ISK/h of nullsec anoms is much better scalable than L4's by the number of alts you have, something to keep in mind for those with alts.

For example running hub+ anoms with 4 sniper dominixes each in their individual anom is probably much better isk/h than you would get multiboxing 4 mission chars due to travel and docking time.