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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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SOL Ranger
Imperial Armed Forces
#1141 - 2013-08-09 01:15:29 UTC
Absolution:
Amarr Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Armor Resistances
10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use
Command Ships skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire
10%(+5) bonus Medium Energy Turret damage
3% bonus to strength of Armored Warfare and Information Warfare links
Fixed Bonus:
Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules

...

10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use

...

Give us proper bonuses on Amarr laser ships, like so:

10% bonus Medium Energy Turret optimal range
(was 10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use)


And then introduce a new skill Controlled Energy Bursts(5x), the skill reduces capacitor use by Energy Turrets by 10% per level, requires Controlled Bursts V.

Please, it is needed.

The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
Eldrith Jhandar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1142 - 2013-08-09 01:17:08 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
Help the EOS for goodness sake!!!! What kind of bonuses are those anyway?


To be fair the eos is much better than what's live right now. The live eos is just an abortion of bonuses.



I'd rather see the eos with the current bonus layout and give it the slot you unjustly robbed of it, you take a slot away but give double 10% damage bonuses to other cs's
And then move a slot from the high to a mid
So with the same bonuses the eos will have instead of 4 guns 6/4/6
Have it a 5/5/7 with 4 guns

Would lead to a much more interesting and balanced ship and not gimping it with an oddball rep bonus and hp bonus
7 lows will give it a fairly strong passive tank if that is your goal and allowing a decent active tank with drone damage mods to make use of its drones (which have only one standard damage bonus, as compared to the other cs's extra strong bonuses)
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1143 - 2013-08-09 01:31:36 UTC
Eldrith Jhandar wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
Help the EOS for goodness sake!!!! What kind of bonuses are those anyway?


To be fair the eos is much better than what's live right now. The live eos is just an abortion of bonuses.



I'd rather see the eos with the current bonus layout and give it the slot you unjustly robbed of it, you take a slot away but give double 10% damage bonuses to other cs's


Have you ever used the live eos? Have you seen anyone use the live eos?
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#1144 - 2013-08-09 02:44:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Eldrith Jhandar wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
Help the EOS for goodness sake!!!! What kind of bonuses are those anyway?


To be fair the eos is much better than what's live right now. The live eos is just an abortion of bonuses.



I'd rather see the eos with the current bonus layout and give it the slot you unjustly robbed of it, you take a slot away but give double 10% damage bonuses to other cs's


Have you ever used the live eos? Have you seen anyone use the live eos?


Believe it or not, but this balance pass goes a bit beyond simply "improving" ships, it's intent is "balance".

The suggestion proposed by elrith was to return an unjustly removed slot from the eos, while retaining the current bonuses proposed for 1.1.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1145 - 2013-08-09 02:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ersahi Kir
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Believe it or not, but this balance pass goes a bit beyond simply "improving" ships, it's intent is "balance".


...which means that a bad ship, such as the live eos, would get improved yes?

Unless you're using the trickle down theory of ship balancing that is.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#1146 - 2013-08-09 02:57:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Believe it or not, but this balance pass goes a bit beyond simply "improving" ships, it's intent is "balance".


...which means that a bad ship, such as the live eos, would get improved yes?


While a balance pass towards the EOS most certainly is manifested in the improvement of said ship, a simple improvement does not necessary make it balanced. The loss of a slot in comparison to other ships justified by a larger drone bay and drone bonuses is not applicable here because the weapon bonuses on ships of comparison(other commands) are far more potent that seen on most other classes of ships in which the loss of a slot on a drone ship is acceptable. If anything, the suggestion is avoiding the "trickle down/up" balancing style you are referring to.

Also, your facetious comment is heavily missing the point raised by myself and Eldrith.

BTW, if I'm drawing an incorrect strawman on your point please let me know. At this point I hardly can tell what your actual stance is in regards to what's being discussed, jabby 1 liners generally don't convey a complete opinion.
Rain6638
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1147 - 2013-08-09 03:06:52 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Have you ever used the live eos? Have you seen anyone use the live eos?

to support your point, yeah, i used an eos but only because it was the fleet version with the bonuses to info

[ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1148 - 2013-08-09 05:57:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
SOL Ranger wrote:
Absolution:
Amarr Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Armor Resistances
10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use
Command Ships skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire
10%(+5) bonus Medium Energy Turret damage
3% bonus to strength of Armored Warfare and Information Warfare links
Fixed Bonus:
Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules

...

10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use

...

Give us proper bonuses on Amarr laser ships, like so:

10% bonus Medium Energy Turret optimal range
(was 10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use)


And then introduce a new skill Controlled Energy Bursts(5x), the skill reduces capacitor use by Energy Turrets by 10% per level, requires Controlled Bursts V.

Please, it is needed.


I got a better Idea!

Skillname: Trolololo Amarr

-25% Cap Use for all Amarr Ships per Level and 50% more Tracking, Range or Damage if the Laser Crystal does need it.




... Please we dont need Special Race Skills...

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Battlingbean
Wings of the Dark Portal
#1149 - 2013-08-09 06:07:04 UTC
Armor tanked Nighthawk anyone?
Rain6638
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1150 - 2013-08-09 06:12:42 UTC
dual tanked

it all makes sense now

[ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337
Twikki
The Rusty Muskets
#1151 - 2013-08-09 07:51:16 UTC
Not sure if it has been said all ready, way to many posts to read.

What the chances of getting missle speed bonus and travel time on the nighthawk similar to that of the cerb.

Then at least the HAM's wont be as restricted.

Failing that to the same bonus as the damnation, after all caldari is meant to be the main missile race.

While you are at it give the drake a little buff also, with similar bonus. it could use a little love with all the nerfs you gave it.

Also going back to the guy that suggested a skill to reduce capcitor use on laser's, i strongly agree to this cap use is terrible on lasers.

Would train that to rank 5 asap!!
Mag's
Azn Empire
#1152 - 2013-08-09 08:12:18 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Eldrith Jhandar wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
Andy Landen wrote:
Help the EOS for goodness sake!!!! What kind of bonuses are those anyway?


To be fair the eos is much better than what's live right now. The live eos is just an abortion of bonuses.



I'd rather see the eos with the current bonus layout and give it the slot you unjustly robbed of it, you take a slot away but give double 10% damage bonuses to other cs's


Have you ever used the live eos? Have you seen anyone use the live eos?


Believe it or not, but this balance pass goes a bit beyond simply "improving" ships, it's intent is "balance".

The suggestion proposed by elrith was to return an unjustly removed slot from the eos, while retaining the current bonuses proposed for 1.1.
|I agree. Maybe they could return the missing slot to the lows, giving the EOS a better tank than the Astarte. Give it a reason to be used again.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Dysgenesis
Dhoomcats
#1153 - 2013-08-09 09:09:37 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
Believe it or not, but this balance pass goes a bit beyond simply "improving" ships, it's intent is "balance".



I think people should always bear this in mind. Having advocated a Damnation equivalent shield buffer brick I would also nerf the HP bonus down to 5% per level.
FleetAdmiralHarper
Kitchen Sink Kapitals
#1154 - 2013-08-09 10:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: FleetAdmiralHarper
Battlingbean wrote:
Armor tanked Nighthawk anyone?


all you people bitching about the nighthawks low slots are r3tarded.. the low slots on that ship should always be, dc2, bcu2x3 powerdiag 2.

have you noticed it has less powergrid then a ferox?? it cant fit sh1t, i needs that low slot for a power module.

UHH DURRRRRRR

if you dont know what your talking about then please dont speak.. i dont wanna see fozzie listen to you numb nuts who have never used the ship, or made a fit with it, and break it even more, when its so close to being usable.
it just needs to keep the launcher, (that he wants to remove this update) and it will be good.

ITS FINE THE WAY IT IS, IT NEEDS TO HAVE 5 LOWS, SHUT UP ALL OF YOU!! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ GAHH im out of here, *slams door*

thats what a rage quit looks like kids ^
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#1155 - 2013-08-09 10:13:19 UTC
Eldrith Jhandar wrote:
6/5/7 would make it quite interesting and unique without changing the bonuses(which would make it something special and different than any of the other drone boats, so please don't change the bonuses just the slots)

So you want a drone platform to have more slots than its gun counterparts? Deimos, Eos and Astarte are all capable of 1k+ tanks with six lows, want to take a guess what it would be called if it had seven .. give you a hint: rhymes with token.

Proposed Eos (Heavy drone brawler) does less damage than the Astarte but it will positively murderize any size ship where the Astarte will have to get tricky to wreck frigates and some cruisers. And of course you have the whole "free highs + full damage" that is drone platforms so you can go full link and not lose any damage.

If only the Damnation had the fleet + solo + small + medium gang potential of the Eos Sad
SOL Ranger wrote:
Give us proper bonuses on Amarr laser ships, like so:

10% bonus Medium Energy Turret optimal range
(was 10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use)


And then introduce a new skill Controlled Energy Bursts(5x), the skill reduces capacitor use by Energy Turrets by 10% per level, requires Controlled Bursts V.

Please, it is needed.

Oh God, not range .. with Scorch in game it is utterly useless on a ~200k EHP ship .. you have ample time to close distance. Lasers have range, what they need is application, the 7.5% tracking from the Navy Harb would fit a lot better especially considering the only three mids which exclude the use of a web.

Cap can be sorted by upping either size/recharge or doubling the benefit of Controlled Bursts, sure it would help hybrid users as well but since they all have more mids and similar base cap numbers it will be the proverbial drop in a bucket. Good idea to move the cap deficit to skills though, hadn't thought of that.
raawe
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1156 - 2013-08-09 11:40:57 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
SOL Ranger wrote:
Absolution:
Amarr Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Armor Resistances
10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use
Command Ships skill bonuses:
5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire
10%(+5) bonus Medium Energy Turret damage
3% bonus to strength of Armored Warfare and Information Warfare links
Fixed Bonus:
Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules

...

10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use

...

Give us proper bonuses on Amarr laser ships, like so:

10% bonus Medium Energy Turret optimal range
(was 10% bonus Medium Energy Turret capacitor use)


And then introduce a new skill Controlled Energy Bursts(5x), the skill reduces capacitor use by Energy Turrets by 10% per level, requires Controlled Bursts V.

Please, it is needed.


I got a better Idea!

Skillname: Trolololo Amarr

-25% Cap Use for all Amarr Ships per Level and 50% more Tracking, Range or Damage if the Laser Crystal does need it.




... Please we dont need Special Race Skills...


Actually almost ALL laser amarr ships have one bonus less then ship of the same class from different race, it's absurd. Oh you will say now but lazors can instant swap ammo big optimal bla bla i don't care. The point is we need fitting bonus to make them usable and then we lack one normal bonus. And don't get me started on fixed damage type we can't do nothing about. I wonder how many people would go mad when suddenly all hybrid weapons would need bonus like that instead of +X% damage or something similar. CCP should make some fixes to lasers, while used on amarr ships to use less cap or some special bonus on hulls. Anyone watched alliance tournament. There was like 5 lasers altogether, i wonder why....
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#1157 - 2013-08-09 12:31:02 UTC
I wonder how badly the cap would be without the -10% cap usage per level?

My absolution has 3min 20sec of cap with the MWD on (faction mwd) and is cap stable without it. I'm buffer fit, so no armor repairer. Of course, i have almost perfect cap skill (only need lv5 for mwd cap usage) and gunnery skill.

I'm pretty sure removing the -10% cap usage per level would make amarr ship even more vulnerable to neuting AND hurts a lot newer players who don't have good skill in cap. Just look at the abaddon for PVE. Cap is often a problem for noobs. I'm flying a nightmare and god, how many time i have read it was short on cap, when me and older players with better skill don't seem to have one.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#1158 - 2013-08-09 12:39:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
I am flying all T2 Amarr Ships myself and i dont need that many cap. Hell if you cant kill him in 5 minutes anyway your ******, end of the Story.

Yeah ok, ok, i can accept you dont like the horrific Ship Bonus for Cap, but then they need another drawback to suffer and which one should it be?

Range? Already bad without Scourge.
Tracking? Already bad within specific ranges.
Damage? LOL yeah Damage and Laser in one Word, nice try.

So whats left? I can live with harsh cap managment. But not with the drawbacks above.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Mr Doctor
Therapy.
Brave Collective
#1159 - 2013-08-09 12:54:17 UTC
Oh boo f**king hoo. Change race if you hate them so, Amarr are brilliant.... and you know what so are the other 3 races. I hate this trend of "my races ships arent all powerful there for my race sucks and needs a buff". Every race is great at different things and bad at different things, its called balance.

Oh and I quite like the new Eos, it could be hella scary in small gang/solo work.
sten mattson
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#1160 - 2013-08-09 12:56:09 UTC
bloodknight2 wrote:
I wonder how badly the cap would be without the -10% cap usage per level?

My absolution has 3min 20sec of cap with the MWD on (faction mwd) and is cap stable without it. I'm buffer fit, so no armor repairer. Of course, i have almost perfect cap skill (only need lv5 for mwd cap usage) and gunnery skill.

I'm pretty sure removing the -10% cap usage per level would make amarr ship even more vulnerable to neuting AND hurts a lot newer players who don't have good skill in cap. Just look at the abaddon for PVE. Cap is often a problem for noobs. I'm flying a nightmare and god, how many time i have read it was short on cap, when me and older players with better skill don't seem to have one.


have you tryed flying the maller without a cap booster?

lemme give you a hint: you MWD towards your target to get point for about 3 cycles , then you have less than a minute to kill him with your lazers before you run out of cap. even a small neut you halve that time.

ok i might be exagerating , but thats how it feels when fighting against ships that dont use cap for anything else than tackle and neuts (flabbers , ruptures ect).

the lack of cap bonus on t1/navy/t2 BCs isnt really felt because of their massive capacitors (almost twice as big as t1 cruisers) and their use of medium lazers. imho the ony ones suffering are the t1/navy cruisers , the baddon and apoc and the punisher (since the rebalance).

IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!