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[Odyssey 1.1] Dominix bonus change

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2013-08-09 01:54:38 UTC
uyguhb wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Roime wrote:
Lic Tarek wrote:
The tank has always been solid on this ship but the DPS was always abysmal


If by "abysmal" you mean the highest dps of any T1 subcap, then yes.

I have to agree "Abysmal"=1500 DPS with its current iteration in a lolgank shield tanked fit.

The navy version will get up to 1700 DPs and have better tank.


and a typhoon cant get that?

I suppose it is possible but you won't like what you need to do it, you are looking at 4 BCUs, 3 DDAs, 4 Ogre IIs, and high damage torpedoes. Your Mids would need to be a microwarpdrive, 2x TP, and 2x SW to catch and apply and damage to your target.
As probably a fitting rig or two.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2013-08-09 01:55:32 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
What feedback where they getting to start? Where were the countless topics saying "OMFG DAT DOMI TOO GOOD NERF IT NAO!!!111"

Who asked them to make this change? Especially when there have been countless topics to do something about the ability to AFK while cloaked, Logi UI issues and lack of Killboard, Drone UI, etc..

We were idiots when we thought the first nerf to the Drake was going to be anything but a long line of blame the Drake for everything. And now we want the Domi to be that again? I think not. Stop the nerf to an already balanced ship now and it won't be further nerfed later.

This is an unwanted, pointless change that further punishes those who bother to train to actually fly these ships. On a ship that is already balanced.

It is a complete waste of development resources when far more important changes need the time now.

Make up your mind, do you really think this is taking any real time or not? Do you also think that rewriting of cloaking mechanics or reworking the UI falls under the same devs? Keep in mind that if those aren't what they do then no amount of task they work on will bring those things closer or push them farther from being complete. No matter how important, it needs to be in the hands of devs which work with those mechanics, not the balance devs.

Also your logic regarding the nerf fails. A ship can't be effectively used as a balancing scapegoat unless there is an abundance of negative feedback. But as you point out that isn't the case. That makes the domi a terrible candidate as a target for new nerfs for any conceivable purpose other than genuine balance passes.
Alghara
Les chevaliers de l'ordre
Goonswarm Federation
#163 - 2013-08-09 02:15:46 UTC
good new
but drone assist must be also nerfed.
uyguhb
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#164 - 2013-08-09 02:27:24 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
We are going to put a small change in for 1.1:

Dominix's drone tracking and optimal range bonus lowered from 10% per level to 7.5% per level.

This brings the bonus in line with all other damage application bonuses we give, such as turret tracking bonuses or missile explosion velocity/radius bonuses. The Dominix hasn't been oppressively powerful but it is extremely strong and there is no need for the over-allocation with regards to this bonus.

In case some of you think this is a reaction to the way the Domi performed in the alliance tournament, I can tell you that we will never make balance decisions based on that environment. The tournament certainly highlighted the strengths of sentry drones and damps, which are both powerful on TQ as well, but it removed many of their drawbacks and so it is not an effective way to assess balance or power in normal EVE.


FINALLY, F*CK YES

I can't tell you HOW many times I have been 1 or 2 shotted by Domis when I'm in a 7km/s frig with max transversal. This OP bonus will finally make it so frigate pilots are viable if a Dominix is on field.

EDIT: lol @ all the butthurt domi pilots who are sad that they won't get easy kills

Sentry drones can't be tracking disrupted, this ship was completely OP before this nerf


actually the drones can be tracking disrupted and sentries cant hit small ships orbiting the sentries close range. which allows the sentry drones to be killed.
uyguhb
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2013-08-09 02:29:03 UTC
just leave the optimal range alone. nerf the tracking so people will stop using it as an excuse for them being bad pilots.
Groggmite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2013-08-09 02:34:11 UTC
Boo for this idea. I left eve when you nerfed my primary sniper ship the Tempest for 3 years. Now i return and find the Domi an excellent sniper ship with sentry drones. This is not a easy ship to fly because sentry drones have drawbacks: YOU CAN'T MOVE them. So you are a sitting duck.

Why is an Ishtar having cruiser speed with all kinds of drone bonuses and resists? ishtars have multiple roles. So do other battleships. Domis have one role, a sniper ship. So don't nerf a ship that has a limited role. Lets all fly Ishtars so you can nerf them instead. :) Leave the Dominix alone.
uyguhb
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#167 - 2013-08-09 02:37:17 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
uyguhb wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Roime wrote:
Lic Tarek wrote:
The tank has always been solid on this ship but the DPS was always abysmal


If by "abysmal" you mean the highest dps of any T1 subcap, then yes.

I have to agree "Abysmal"=1500 DPS with its current iteration in a lolgank shield tanked fit.

The navy version will get up to 1700 DPs and have better tank.


and a typhoon cant get that?

I suppose it is possible but you won't like what you need to do it, you are looking at 4 BCUs, 3 DDAs, 4 Ogre IIs, and high damage torpedoes. Your Mids would need to be a microwarpdrive, 2x TP, and 2x SW to catch and apply and damage to your target.
As probably a fitting rig or two.

you cant try to use on paper dps then throw in things like TP's mwd.... same for a domi....a shield tanked domi or sin with just damage mods is not overpowered at all. high damage with a very short range against big targets? sure but ehp is still garbage
Javon Bars
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#168 - 2013-08-09 03:06:26 UTC
This is a welcome change, it doesn't change domi fleets much though but I understand that nerfing the drone assist mechanic on subcaps should be part of a drone change on a wider scale.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#169 - 2013-08-09 03:51:17 UTC
It's not terrible, but of all the problems drones have, the only thing getting fixed is the one thing they are finally doing well?

Can we at least consider a speed bonus added to the tracking/range bonus in the name of drone damage application?
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#170 - 2013-08-09 04:03:52 UTC
Bigg Gun wrote:
fuсk you - it's a carrier - it should be good at hitting everything. The one BS that's not afraid of smaller ships . In fact all BS's should get a drone bonus just for being slow and fat. I can just imagine: 50% to speed and tracking of drones for all BS's - that intie will think twice before trying to sink my BS.


And this is what's wrong with the world. Everybody wants a solo pwnmobile that can win against everything but overwhelming odds. No paper, we just want rocks.
I for one am happy. The tracking is nasty on these things, and the damage and projection is fantastic. It's like lasers if you couldn't damp them, couldn't TD them (unless you have 5 for each ship, and they don't use cap all and have better tracking, all in exchange for being immovable and destructible... all in all I think it's pretty fair, and that's with the nerf.
yafes han
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#171 - 2013-08-09 04:26:43 UTC
Domi nerf was pretty much expected but this nerf train should not touch drone asist at all. Drone asist is one of the few ways to deal with blobs, guess who would benefit from such a nerf.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#172 - 2013-08-09 05:22:29 UTC
maCH'EttE wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
We are going to put a small change in for 1.1:

Dominix's drone tracking and optimal range bonus lowered from 10% per level to 7.5% per level.

This brings the bonus in line with all other damage application bonuses we give, such as turret tracking bonuses or missile explosion velocity/radius bonuses. The Dominix hasn't been oppressively powerful but it is extremely strong and there is no need for the over-allocation with regards to this bonus.

In case some of you think this is a reaction to the way the Domi performed in the alliance tournament, I can tell you that we will never make balance decisions based on that environment. The tournament certainly highlighted the strengths of sentry drones and damps, which are both powerful on TQ as well, but it removed many of their drawbacks and so it is not an effective way to assess balance or power in normal EVE.

Dont you guys test this cr__ before putting it out and than having the smart idea that is OP and than changing it again.
Its nice to see my montly money going to good work.


You sound like some grumpy taxpayer. Not every instance can be tested for.
Daisai
Daisai Investments.
#173 - 2013-08-09 05:48:40 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
We are going to put a small change in for 1.1:

Dominix's drone tracking and optimal range bonus lowered from 10% per level to 7.5% per level.

This brings the bonus in line with all other damage application bonuses we give, such as turret tracking bonuses or missile explosion velocity/radius bonuses. The Dominix hasn't been oppressively powerful but it is extremely strong and there is no need for the over-allocation with regards to this bonus.

In case some of you think this is a reaction to the way the Domi performed in the alliance tournament, I can tell you that we will never make balance decisions based on that environment. The tournament certainly highlighted the strengths of sentry drones and damps, which are both powerful on TQ as well, but it removed many of their drawbacks and so it is not an effective way to assess balance or power in normal EVE.


Right.. not changing this after the "tournament"..
You just didn't know its optimal range and tracking before it was used there and also never knew what remote sensor damps did.
Like no one has ever used the dominix in fleets before this "tournamant".

Not like this was tested on the sisi before the buff to the dominix went to TQ.
Louis Robichaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2013-08-09 06:00:12 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Bigg Gun wrote:
fuсk you - it's a carrier - it should be good at hitting everything. The one BS that's not afraid of smaller ships . In fact all BS's should get a drone bonus just for being slow and fat. I can just imagine: 50% to speed and tracking of drones for all BS's - that intie will think twice before trying to sink my BS.


And this is what's wrong with the world. Everybody wants a solo pwnmobile that can win against everything but overwhelming odds. No paper, we just want rocks.
I for one am happy. The tracking is nasty on these things, and the damage and projection is fantastic. It's like lasers if you couldn't damp them, couldn't TD them (unless you have 5 for each ship, and they don't use cap all and have better tracking, all in exchange for being immovable and destructible... all in all I think it's pretty fair, and that's with the nerf.


Being immobile is a pretty freaking big drawback.

I do agree on the desire for a "I win!!!" ship to be ridiculous though. I guess I just don't agree the nerf was needed, but I'm thankful it's a small one

I blog a bit http://hspew.blogspot.ca
Bill Saisima
Doomheim
#175 - 2013-08-09 08:45:56 UTC
Damn, I knew goons are good at social engineering but didn't think they can manipulate CCP so quickly.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#176 - 2013-08-09 09:01:36 UTC
You are in State War Academy, you don't even know that "goons" means. Go rescue the damsel or whatever it is that you npc corp failures do all day and keep your ******** views in your retardchat.



.
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2013-08-09 09:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: The Spod
Not fully thought out, as the sentry bonuses are rather streamlined.

Dominix is a battleship, give it a suitable niche.
Ishtar is a cruiser, give it a suitable niche.

Dominix: 15% heavy and sentry drone damage per level, 10% range per level. Hard hitting, slow tracking drone battleship that needs to fit range links to snipe.
Ishtar: 7,5% all drone damage per level, 10% tracking and speed per level. Fast tracking drone hac.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#178 - 2013-08-09 09:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Irya Boone
Yep dominix is a BS with no ewar bonus , and it's a drone Boat and heavy really heavy drone boat.

Give the domi the proper bonus.

Drone speed , optimal Range ,damage bonuses

and why not for a change , have Really Big Bonus to Ewar drones ( because except for ecm drones , people don't really use TD or SD drones )


Nerf sentries if you want .. but let the other drones

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#179 - 2013-08-09 09:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Irya Boone wrote:
and why not for a change a Really Big Bonus to Ewar drones ( because except for ecm drones , people don't really use TD or SD drones )


Someone didn't watch AT it seems. That neut drone cloud was brilliant. Big smile
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#180 - 2013-08-09 09:27:29 UTC
Gwen Ambraelle wrote:

Sentry Drones have enough disadvantages as it is, the 10% bonus was the only thing that made them worthwhile.

Sentries can be shot, turrets cannot.
Sentries can't move, turrets can.
Sentries can't be overheated, turrets can.
Drone interface is awful.



well, i was using sentry domi long before everyone was flying it(back then ppl mostly used heavies) and i stil fly it ... when i first saw those changes to optimal and tracking i was like: "oh wow, this ship was op and now it will be even more op" (though not many ppl flew it)
so this reduction of late is quite ok imho, even though i might not like it i definitely agree with it (yes i dont like that everyone is flying my favourite ship now)

while you listed some cons of sentries i would add some pros aswell:

you cant jamm those (not even talking about other ew) ... once they are out and locked on right target, you dont care about ew and the rest, if you are in gang, you can assist them to someone who isnt jammed for retargeting - easy
you can assist them, you cant do this with guns
you can unload them for example on gate and fly 100km away to be out of danger andstill be effective(not needed with those optimals now though)
no need for ammo + no reload delay, though they have some delay before first shot


im not saying sentries dont have cons but i think its good to mention pros aswell to stay objective here


main problem for me is, ccp are giving bonuses for drones to other races aswell (show me lasers on gallente ships)
bonuses for drones should stay mostly for gallente, but now is too late i think and ccp probably know better what their are doing (atleast i hope so a little bit), bad thing for me is that ccp are giving everything to all races, but thats for other thread