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Public Service Announcement concerning wormhole data and relic sites [Sisi now updated]

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-08-08 11:31:41 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hello fair wormholers.

We've got a PSA for you all and I would appreciate it if you spread the word among your fellow frontierspeople.

With the new scatter mechanics introduced in Odyssey, if someone loots a scatter container and does not have enough space in their cargo hold to fit the result, their attempt to loot will be unsuccessful.

We have been noticing a lot of these unsuccessful loot attempts in wormhole space, and believe that it is mainly occurring with ancient relics contained in wormhole data and relic sites. The sleeper hull relics are especially tricky as their 100m3 size means you need a significant amount of free cargo room to pick them up.

We believe that this contributes to some of the reports from wormholers that they are seeing fewer hull sections dropping (although it isn't the only cause). We are continuing to investigate the other causes and will hopefully find a solution soon.

We are investigating ways to make this interaction between the scatter containers and your free cargo space more intuitive and easier to manage, but in the meantime we strongly advise those people looting wormhole relic and data sites (especially the talocan ships) to ensure that they have plenty of free cargo space.

TL:DR When you're looting scatter containers in wormhole space, have plenty of free cargo space available or you'll miss out on the high volume stuff.

:Update August 23rd: Another significant issue with talocan drops has been identified and fixed.
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Team Kuromaku has identified and fixed a problem that was preventing the hull sections from dropping in many cases. The fix will be deployed in Odyssey 1.1 and is on Sisi now if you want to investigate for yourselves and let us know what you think.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-08-08 11:35:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Why don't you just make the scatter loot, when looted, just drop to cargo cans when there isn't enough cargo space? That way if there isn't enough space, the players can always come back after offloading?

Don't ban me, bro!
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2013-08-08 11:45:38 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Why don't you just make the scatter loot, when looted, just drop to cargo cans when there isn't enough cargo space? That way if there isn't enough space, the players can always come back after offloading?


That is one of the things we're considering yes.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-08-08 12:05:08 UTC
This explains a lot, thanks for the PSA.

Now fix SMA drops too!
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#5 - 2013-08-08 13:50:16 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello fair wormholers.

We've got a PSA for you all and I would appreciate it if you spread the word among your fellow frontierspeople.

With the new scatter mechanics introduced in Odyssey, if someone loots a scatter container and does not have enough space in their cargo hold to fit the result, their attempt to loot will be unsuccessful.

We have been noticing a lot of these unsuccessful loot attempts in wormhole space, and believe that it is mainly occurring with ancient relics contained in wormhole data and relic sites. The sleeper hull relics are especially tricky as their 100m3 size means you need a significant amount of free cargo room to pick them up.

We believe that this explains the reports from some wormholers that they are seeing fewer hull sections dropping. Hull sections are actually appearing in the scatter containers twice as often as they appeared in the containers pre-Odyssey, but many people attempting to loot them are doing so with less than 100m3 of free cargo bay.

We are investigating ways to make this interaction between the scatter containers and your free cargo space more intuitive and easier to manage, but in the meantime we strongly advise those people looting wormhole relic and data sites (especially the talocan ships) to ensure that they have plenty of free cargo space.

TL:DR When you're looting scatter containers in wormhole space, have plenty of free cargo space available or you'll miss out on the high volume stuff.
Why not just remove the loot scatter mechanic altogether? It's not fun nor compelling. The containers have already been parsed out and ranked. It seriously feels like a penalty to a "successful" hack, which is ostensibly where the game play is in hacking. When hacking is successful, open a loot window. Problem solved.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-08-08 14:01:57 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Why not just remove the loot scatter mechanic altogether? It's not fun nor compelling. The containers have already been parsed out and ranked. It seriously feels like a penalty to a "successful" hack, which is ostensibly where the game play is in hacking. When hacking is successful, open a loot window. Problem solved.



Because reasons.

CCP Fozzie moves in mysterious ways at times.


@Fozzie: Does this essentially mean in addition to the sleeper guards, hacking mini-game, and loot scatter that we should also be bringing some number of dedicated haulers?
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-08-08 14:16:45 UTC
Best solution: remove scatter mechanics.
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2013-08-08 14:24:15 UTC
+1 FOR scattering mechanic. It makes a nice extra challenge and considering how much isk a person can make from the loot, I feel that it is quite appropriate for there to be another level of difficulty involved.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-08-08 14:49:10 UTC
+1

Thank you fozzie for looking into this.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#10 - 2013-08-08 14:59:02 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
+1 FOR scattering mechanic. It makes a nice extra challenge and considering how much isk a person can make from the loot, I feel that it is quite appropriate for there to be another level of difficulty involved.
Well, considering the penalty for 2 failed hacks in a row on most hacks is that the container explodes and you get nothing, why should there be an additional penalty phase when you actually succeed at hacking?

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Pannax Ni
Pinch n' Plex
#11 - 2013-08-08 15:19:34 UTC
Why is the cargo holds of T2 covert op ships smaller than their T1 counterpart?
B aalzamon
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-08-08 15:46:51 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Well, considering the penalty for 2 failed hacks in a row on most hacks is that the container explodes and you get nothing, why should there be an additional penalty phase when you actually succeed at hacking?


Confirming you have never tried hacking a can in w-space. For a member of SSC, you really should look into w-space a little more often before posting about it on the forums. W-Space cans do not explode when you fail hacking, regardless of how many times you fail.

-B aalzamon
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-08-08 16:27:49 UTC
B aalzamon wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Well, considering the penalty for 2 failed hacks in a row on most hacks is that the container explodes and you get nothing, why should there be an additional penalty phase when you actually succeed at hacking?


Confirming you have never tried hacking a can in w-space. For a member of SSC, you really should look into w-space a little more often before posting about it on the forums. W-Space cans do not explode when you fail hacking, regardless of how many times you fail.

-B aalzamon


Actually members of larger, pvp oriented alliance tend to run Sleeper Sites far less than most of w-space residents.
Tetsedah Izuto
Deadspace Exploration.
#14 - 2013-08-08 16:39:53 UTC
Actually Fozzie, in regards to Abandon Talocan wrecks in Server Banks, many members of my corp cargo scan the wrecks and it shows nothing in them (When they themselves have enough room for them). Upon looting them, all scatter containers are collected without missing a single one. And the only loot that is given is Carbon and Etc. try it out for yourself if you'd like, I hope this can get fixed soon.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#15 - 2013-08-08 16:46:21 UTC
B aalzamon wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Well, considering the penalty for 2 failed hacks in a row on most hacks is that the container explodes and you get nothing, why should there be an additional penalty phase when you actually succeed at hacking?


Confirming you have never tried hacking a can in w-space. For a member of SSC, you really should look into w-space a little more often before posting about it on the forums. W-Space cans do not explode when you fail hacking, regardless of how many times you fail.

-B aalzamon
Confirming that you cannot read. If you had actually read my comment, you'd have seen that I mentioned "on most hacks." Surprising, I know, that perhaps I was referring to the scattering mechanic on the whole. L2R.

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Nopeaus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-08-08 16:46:23 UTC
Does this go along with cargo-scanning the cans before hand and seeing no Hull sections because the game is sensing you don't have enough cargo space so its not "spawning" the hull sections in the can when you cargo scan it? It seems a lot of the time, just cargo scanning all the cans before hand with an empty cargo-hold we don't see any hull-sections.
Tiger Armani
End-Game
#17 - 2013-08-08 16:59:38 UTC
Pannax Ni wrote:
Why is the cargo holds of T2 covert op ships smaller than their T1 counterpart?


Basically this. You give covops the virus bonus, when in reality, we should have freighter sized hacking ship to gather all this garbage we are getting.

If you want to keep the minigame, atleast remove the scattering and just give all stuff in a container.
Benny Therios
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-08-08 17:09:44 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
Why not just remove the loot scatter mechanic altogether? It's not fun nor compelling. The containers have already been parsed out and ranked. It seriously feels like a penalty to a "successful" hack, which is ostensibly where the game play is in hacking. When hacking is successful, open a loot window. Problem solved.



I've been out on a few hacking trips purely to gather loot. As a team, we drew in more loot that my hacker friend would've done solo. So not only is it making team efforts and social hacking more viable and productive, it also means that those running in groups are no longer disadvantaged by the fact that loot had to be split.

+1 scattering
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#19 - 2013-08-08 18:56:36 UTC
I cannot speak for all sites, but the talocans inside of C5 sites don't have hull sections. period. it isn't a lack of space, or what not they are simply not there. we have over 100 Server banks so far, with 0 yielding any hull sections

Event Organizer of EVE North East
Maikyo Night
Deadspace Exploration.
#20 - 2013-08-08 19:10:37 UTC
You very clearly have not actually tested this on Tranquility. If you would actually take the time and run a Server Bank (C5 Site) you would see that the Hull Sections aren't even being populated in the cargo scan list...as in They are not there at all and the loot cans reflect the same conclusion...and this is without missing a Single Can.

The whole not enough space may very well apply to some. But myself and the vast majority of my corp use cargo expanded T3's as well as Nocti to run our Data and Relic sites. On every occasion since the last "fix" we have come up empty handed hull section wise...with an EMPTY cargohold. And we ALWAYS start with the talocan as its the most important.

Please actually run a site, don't just check a log that says its working as intended. Because we assure you its not!

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello fair wormholers.

We've got a PSA for you all and I would appreciate it if you spread the word among your fellow frontierspeople.

With the new scatter mechanics introduced in Odyssey, if someone loots a scatter container and does not have enough space in their cargo hold to fit the result, their attempt to loot will be unsuccessful.

We have been noticing a lot of these unsuccessful loot attempts in wormhole space, and believe that it is mainly occurring with ancient relics contained in wormhole data and relic sites. The sleeper hull relics are especially tricky as their 100m3 size means you need a significant amount of free cargo room to pick them up.

We believe that this explains the reports from some wormholers that they are seeing fewer hull sections dropping. Hull sections are actually appearing in the scatter containers twice as often as they appeared in the containers pre-Odyssey, but many people attempting to loot them are doing so with less than 100m3 of free cargo bay.

We are investigating ways to make this interaction between the scatter containers and your free cargo space more intuitive and easier to manage, but in the meantime we strongly advise those people looting wormhole relic and data sites (especially the talocan ships) to ensure that they have plenty of free cargo space.

TL:DR When you're looting scatter containers in wormhole space, have plenty of free cargo space available or you'll miss out on the high volume stuff.
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