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FIRE AT WILL!!!
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Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#1 - 2013-08-07 16:55:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Dragon Outlaw
Fire at will!, Free Fire! Guns are green!! This is something you usually hear at the end of a fleet fight when your team is obviously winning. I don’t know about you guys, but I get all excited when the FC gives us the free fire order.

Usually, if you are an obedient fleet member, you shoot what your FC is telling you to shoot. That is how big fights happen. You lock the targets your FC broadcasts, you press F1, ship dies, you shoot the next broadcast. Simple and efficient!

But what if…the ability to broadcast targets was removed from the game? What if your overview would no longer show the identity of the persons flying the ships that appears in it (only ship type, distance, speed, transversal, etc)? How would fleet fights be? Now I know some will say, this would surely split DPS and logi ships would have an easy time keeping the fight in a stable state. So what if broadcasting for reps would also be removed? Now I can see other folks say, hey those N3 dudes assign their sentries to the FC (or a trigger) so there could still be a way to concentrate dps. OK!! Lets remove drone assists from the game now.

There you go. Fleet fight could become…a multitude of smaller fights…a REAL brawlfest... right from the start!!

Wouldn’t that be awesome? Or would there be something broken somewhere?

( This being said I am not asking CCP to do this cause I know it would never happen but, this was sort of my expectation when I decided to load this game to my computer 3 years ago. As a single pilot, I really though fleet fights was more challenging to what we see today (lock broadcast and press F1 or just assign sentries). )
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#2 - 2013-08-07 17:15:18 UTC
Do 'What if" posts really belong in F&I?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Silent Rambo
Orion Positronics
#3 - 2013-08-07 17:49:31 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Do 'What if" posts really belong in F&I?


Are you ****-ing stupid?

You really think someone would do that? Just log into EvE and tell lies?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#4 - 2013-08-07 17:59:29 UTC
That would be the part where "Ideas Discussion" enters into things.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#5 - 2013-08-07 18:39:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
Nice idea but due to the nature of the beast, people will always figure out a way of firing at the same person because it's the most efficient way to kill the opposing fleet.

For example, ship type and range.

The counter for that is take away range but then what good would the overview be? Cov ops scouts and bombers would be screwed without range on the overview, just as an example.

As you say, it'll never happen. Mainly because unfortunately it's impractical due to the limitations that would be required severely impairing other aspects of the game.
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#6 - 2013-08-07 18:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Dragon Outlaw
Tchulen wrote:
Nice idea but due to the nature of the beast, people will always figure out a way of firing at the same person because it's the most efficient way to kill the opposing fleet.

For example, ship type and range.

The counter for that is take away range but then what good would the overview be? Cov ops scouts and bombers would be screwed without range on the overview, just as an example.

As you say, it'll never happen. Mainly because unfortunately it's impractical due to the limitations that would be required severely impairing other aspects of the game.


Thanks...like you say, there would surely be some creative people who would find ways to primary a target.

But by the way, I did not mean to say to remove the range of the ships listed in your overview. Just the identities of the people who are in the listed ships. You would only see ship types, range, speed, transversal, etc...but not the names of thee toons. (Basicly, one column of the overview disapears)
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#7 - 2013-08-07 19:10:33 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Nice idea but due to the nature of the beast, people will always figure out a way of firing at the same person because it's the most efficient way to kill the opposing fleet.


Try its the ONLY way to kill the opposing fleet. Most ships in EVE can fit a tank that will enable it to kill a ship before it goes down its self.
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#8 - 2013-08-07 19:33:29 UTC
Blastil wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Nice idea but due to the nature of the beast, people will always figure out a way of firing at the same person because it's the most efficient way to kill the opposing fleet.


Try its the ONLY way to kill the opposing fleet. Most ships in EVE can fit a tank that will enable it to kill a ship before it goes down its self.


So ships would still be dying! I think what you are trying to say is that fleet fights would last longer. Which would be more fun no?
Marcus Harikari
#9 - 2013-08-07 19:47:15 UTC
what if guns were just turned off altogether in EVE and big fleet blob fights just turned into a giant carebear hug-orgy? Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smile
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#10 - 2013-08-07 20:32:23 UTC
Marcus Harikari wrote:
what if guns were just turned off altogether in EVE and big fleet blob fights just turned into a giant carebear hug-orgy? Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smile


I guess High sec miners and JF pilots would love your suggestion! Roll
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-08-07 20:39:19 UTC
What if you could right click on your guns and "assist" your FC like drones?

Roll

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2013-08-07 21:06:18 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
What if you could right click on your guns and "assist" your FC like drones?

Roll

That's a little too easy. And the opposite direction this post proposed.
Blastil
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#13 - 2013-08-07 23:02:23 UTC
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Blastil wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Nice idea but due to the nature of the beast, people will always figure out a way of firing at the same person because it's the most efficient way to kill the opposing fleet.


Try its the ONLY way to kill the opposing fleet. Most ships in EVE can fit a tank that will enable it to kill a ship before it goes down its self.


So ships would still be dying! I think what you are trying to say is that fleet fights would last longer. Which would be more fun no?


No, it would make fleet fights larger than 10 guys entirely impossible, since logistics ships would have the advantage of broadcasts and watch lists, whereas DPS ships don't.
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#14 - 2013-08-08 00:31:24 UTC
Blastil wrote:
Dragon Outlaw wrote:
Blastil wrote:
Tchulen wrote:
Nice idea but due to the nature of the beast, people will always figure out a way of firing at the same person because it's the most efficient way to kill the opposing fleet.


Try its the ONLY way to kill the opposing fleet. Most ships in EVE can fit a tank that will enable it to kill a ship before it goes down its self.


So ships would still be dying! I think what you are trying to say is that fleet fights would last longer. Which would be more fun no?


No, it would make fleet fights larger than 10 guys entirely impossible, since logistics ships would have the advantage of broadcasts and watch lists, whereas DPS ships don't.


Like I said above, broadcasts for reps would not exist anymore. And if WLs remains to big of a problem, then the WL capacity could be lowered.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#15 - 2013-08-09 16:02:15 UTC
At some point, if you pull the supporting aspects that make large fleet engagements practical, won't the large fleet engagements stop happening?

At some point, the size of the fleet becomes a liability, only useful for giving more targets to a smaller fleet.

The smaller fleet would zip in, target only the ships they could quickly pop, and leave.
Without coordination, the larger fleet would have no advantage due to size.
Many pilots with missiles won't even bother trying to lock, figuring a bunch of blaster boats will kill targets before they can launch.

A squad of AFs, using warp ins provided by a CovOps, would be a nightmare to them.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#16 - 2013-08-09 16:42:40 UTC
logistics would have a huge advantage in this since people would just lock up friendly logistics once they started taking damage if there was no way to broadcast and removing the notification that you're being locked is even more unrealistic as you'd never know who was shooting you
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-08-09 17:04:03 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
What if you could right click on your guns and "assist" your FC like drones?

Roll

That's a little too easy. And the opposite direction this post proposed.



Drones assist mechanic is by far bad than be able to self rep with your drones.

Not being able to assist drones to FC and actually shoot primaries like every other gun would buy as much time other weapons do to catch reps and so on.
Self rep with your own drones is not even close to be game breaking because they can be destroyed rep little amounts and meanwhile you're using them you're not doing any or little dps.

Maybe I misunderstood your point but this is my opinion about drone boats and drones mechanics.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#18 - 2013-08-09 19:08:44 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
At some point, if you pull the supporting aspects that make large fleet engagements practical, won't the large fleet engagements stop happening?

At some point, the size of the fleet becomes a liability, only useful for giving more targets to a smaller fleet.

The smaller fleet would zip in, target only the ships they could quickly pop, and leave.
Without coordination, the larger fleet would have no advantage due to size.
Many pilots with missiles won't even bother trying to lock, figuring a bunch of blaster boats will kill targets before they can launch.

A squad of AFs, using warp ins provided by a CovOps, would be a nightmare to them.


Minutemen style engagments like you are desrcibing would still need to GTFO quickly (dont forget, hostile ships would still appear on everyone`s overview) when coming close to a larger group like you are describing. Specially if they are fitted with turrets that can shoot at Medium and LR. But yeah, missile boats would have a disadvantage.

You are right in what you say but, but this can already happen. How many times have you seen fleet members shoot an hostile ship that has not been broadcasted by the FC? I see it all the time!!

My idea is to make fleet fights last longer and at the same time, provide more "freedom" to fleet members. When you compare this to being an F1 monkey or even worst, assigning sentries to a trigger, I think my suggestion would bring way more fun!! Dont forget that, the only reason why we can focus fire in Eve, is because there is no "line of sight" concept in the game. In most large engagements, the ships at the back of the fleet would hit friendlies before hitting any ennemy ships. So removing focus fire would only bring things back into balance in my opinion.

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#19 - 2013-08-09 19:15:08 UTC
Now I have visions of smart bombing disco geddons, and similar, showing up.

No lock time needed, land at spotter location, trigger blast, warp to BM that is in line with previous heading....

Dumb luck required, sure, but still sounds fun.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#20 - 2013-08-09 19:58:07 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Now I have visions of smart bombing disco geddons, and similar, showing up.

No lock time needed, land at spotter location, trigger blast, warp to BM that is in line with previous heading....

Dumb luck required, sure, but still sounds fun.


F**** YEAH MAN!! Bring it on!!