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6VDT Battle article on Discovery Channel's news site
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Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2013-07-30 17:21:52 UTC
This is why CCP should spend more time developing nullsec. No one is going to write articles in the mainstream press about some guy's level 4 mission and these acres of free advertising brings players to EVE.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2013-07-30 17:47:52 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
'twas on BBC news as well. Shame TIDI spoilt it

I love it when dumb pubbies who never experienced a pre-TiDi fleet fight ***** about TiDi.

TiDi saved this fight, and is the only reason we could have a fight that epic. The 20+ minutes it was taking me to lock with my oneiros is an acceptable price to pay to be able to do something that great.


Like the people on grid in that battle are the only ones affected by it? (It's a pain in the ass trying to leech some kills a few systems away =P).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2013-07-30 17:50:50 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
'twas on BBC news as well. Shame TIDI spoilt it


What?

Without tidi there wouldn't have been a battle this size at all.



New elitist club called "The TiDI Club"? Only members allowed, all others turned away at gate based on a first come first serve basis!

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2013-07-30 17:53:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Some people here are not making the difference in between "TiDi made it possible" which is an absolute truth, and how fun such fight is under these conditions.
…and some people seem to think that there is an objective and universal truth about what is “fun”.


You hit on one of my pet peeves. I hate that too. I've been in huge fleet flights pre and post TiDi and I've enjoyed them for the most part. My 1st Day in Raiden i found myself in a low sec battle and got my name on 70+ killmails (2 solo kills, top damage or final blow on 6 or 7 others).

I know people who play other games , they come to work and ask me why I play EVE Online "when it's so unfun". So I explain (the bloody obvious) that what's fun for me and what's fun for them are different things. Then I get IN EVE and have gotten the same things from actual EVE players (ie "why are you doing so much ratting, aren't you rich by now?", or "don't you get tired of exploring, come kill real people with me" lol).

Frankly, it's a bit annoying that some people can't grasp the idea that fun subjective.



I understand that point, but there comes to question the level of "fun" to be had watching a progress bar on a webpage take 15 minutes to load when all you have is dialup when you get accustomed to pages loading while on a broadband connection. There literally is no skill at that point, because you simply cannot choose your reactions 20 minutes later.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#45 - 2013-07-30 17:54:32 UTC
Doris Dents wrote:
This is why CCP should spend more time developing nullsec. No one is going to write articles in the mainstream press about some guy's level 4 mission and these acres of free advertising brings players to EVE.

But they need people to be running l4s because they also pay subscriptions. And without miners, where would your ships be then, eh?

Checkmate nullsec zealot

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2013-07-30 17:56:02 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:
[

Okay normally I'd agree with people saying whats fun or not but you can't exactly tell me sitting there for 20 mins to do certain things is "fun". I'd go more with the whole thing as being "cool" seeing 4000 players in one area.



When you have people saying they are using TiDi to play on their alts to handle their administrative stuff (mining, pi, moving around, doing missions etc) because of the time allowed for the next tidi cycle....

Well, tidi can't be all that much "fun".

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-07-30 17:58:33 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Jonathan Peak wrote:
Probably the best we can legitimately say is a 4000+ player battle would be more fun in normal time than it is in major TiDi. Clearly it'd be no mean feat to implement, of course, but perhaps someday...

Yes, that's what we said about 1500 man battles in the past.

Soon, it will be wow, we had 6000 people in soul-crushing TiDi, can't we do better?



Imagine the stability of having the ability to have multiple fights of 2,000 at the same time, not just in one system because of all the planning needed to be done at the cost of CCP's servers.

For the low low price of 15 bil isk I will allow rental time slots of "my" Jita server to be used for your fights. Otherwise, it's "reserved" thanks.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#48 - 2013-07-30 18:02:10 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Like the people on grid in that battle are the only ones affected by it? (It's a pain in the ass trying to leech some kills a few systems away =P).
You know that being “a few systems away” has nothing to do with it, right, and that, when on a dedicated node, it does indeed not affect anyone outside the battle?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#49 - 2013-07-30 19:04:37 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:



I understand that point, but there comes to question the level of "fun" to be had watching a progress bar on a webpage take 15 minutes to load when all you have is dialup when you get accustomed to pages loading while on a broadband connection. There literally is no skill at that point, because you simply cannot choose your reactions 20 minutes later.


The underlined part is important, because it shows what you value (and that then suggests what you find "fun").

In the same situation, I'm enjoying myself more because with things all slowed down, I've got time to gawk at things, setting my camera to different ships to see how it looks from a different perspective, making suggesting on comms or in fleet chat (boy do the FCs love that lol, I did to when I used to FC ...not ...Twisted ) etc etc. It's not the same as watching a progress bar on a web page, it's actually engaging to me, were as to others, not so much.


Look at it this way. You like EVE online. Most people don't (or wouldn't even if exposed to it). Look at all the people who have trials but not subbed, i'd bet real money the number of people who tried EVE and didn't like it is higher than the current subscription base lol. Are they right and EVE online is "not fun", or are you right, EVE is fun and they''re just dumb?

Answer: C. Different people find different things enjoyable. More people Like WoW than EvE, that statement means nothing about the qualities of either game.

(Crap, I said Wow, Ace Spawn in 5...4...3..)

Every personality test I've taken asks a question like "which would you rather do, go to a concert or stay at home and read a book". I'm the stay at home and read a book guy (although nowadays, "book" means "play EvE and or other...adult activities using the internet as a medium....sorry, TMI?). Nothing wrong with a good concert with some friends or something similar to that, but most of the time, I'd prefer quiet company of a few friends, or spending time alone doing something I like.

My Sister is the opposite, and thinks I'm crazy, sitting in a room alone for 10 minutes would drive her bonkers, which is why her husband thinks she is crazy lol.

Like Tippia says, there is no universal "Fun" constant. Hell, i honest to god know people who find MINING to be fun, as in "they actually enjoy the act of mining" (i mean, how F'd up is that Cool) .
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#50 - 2013-07-30 23:06:42 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Murk Paradox]
Hell, i honest to god know people who find MINING to be fun, as in "they actually enjoy the act of mining" (i mean, how F'd up is that Cool) .

You may wish to report these people to the FBI as dangerous wackjobs. They are obviously a danger to society.

Seriously, tho, this whole post is accurate. I love big fleet fights, and I don't particularly like what feels twitch based with small gang fights. I have been killed before I knew what was happening in both types, and at least in a big fight, I get to see a much more impressive fight unfolding around me.

I also enjoy shooting red crosses, so there is that.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#51 - 2013-07-30 23:40:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
'twas on BBC news as well. Shame TIDI spoilt it

I love it when dumb pubbies who never experienced a pre-TiDi fleet fight ***** about TiDi.

TiDi saved this fight, and is the only reason we could have a fight that epic. The 20+ minutes it was taking me to lock with my oneiros is an acceptable price to pay to be able to do something that great.


a fight that epic
20 minutes to lock a target
choose one.

The way derps get impressed by numbers and are prepared to toss quality for quantity is kinda tragic.
Now when a bunch of WH dwellers drop into null in faction cruisers, logi, ecm and a couple T3s, get stuck in a dead end pipe and decide to fight their way out, that makes a 40 v 40ish fight epic.
Blobs, meta, tidi and game crushing crowds? You HAVE to be some kind of masochist.



What you describe as "epic" most of us describe as "Tuesday night".

Was the battle in question slow paced? Yep.

Did it change the face of the EVE universe as we know it? Yep.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2013-08-02 11:04:28 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
'twas on BBC news as well. Shame TIDI spoilt it

I love it when dumb pubbies who never experienced a pre-TiDi fleet fight ***** about TiDi.

TiDi saved this fight, and is the only reason we could have a fight that epic. The 20+ minutes it was taking me to lock with my oneiros is an acceptable price to pay to be able to do something that great.


a fight that epic
20 minutes to lock a target
choose one.

The way derps get impressed by numbers and are prepared to toss quality for quantity is kinda tragic.
Now when a bunch of WH dwellers drop into null in faction cruisers, logi, ecm and a couple T3s, get stuck in a dead end pipe and decide to fight their way out, that makes a 40 v 40ish fight epic.
Blobs, meta, tidi and game crushing crowds? You HAVE to be some kind of masochist.



What you describe as "epic" most of us describe as "Tuesday night".

Was the battle in question slow paced? Yep.

Did it change the face of the EVE universe as we know it? Yep.



The person i quoted said it was epic, my post implied that epic has the life sucked right out of it by the game wheezing under the pressure.
I log on for fun, primarily, my need for e-significance just isn't so crippling or massive that i'm willing to sit through hours of nothing to feed it. Anyone who jumps in saying it fits their idea of fun has to be crazy. The fact it used to be less fun is likewise irrelevant.
But hey if you like doing things in droves then good for you, don't let me or common sense stop you. If a big crowd lends meaning to something for you, and being in that crowd makes standing around feel worthwhile, i'm happy for you no troll.
I've been doing the odd massive fleet engagement at odd hours for about a year and a half now, think i'll give em a miss in future.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#53 - 2013-08-05 17:34:07 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:

The person i quoted said it was epic, my post implied that epic has the life sucked right out of it by the game wheezing under the pressure.
I log on for fun, primarily, my need for e-significance just isn't so crippling or massive that i'm willing to sit through hours of nothing to feed it. Anyone who jumps in saying it fits their idea of fun has to be crazy. The fact it used to be less fun is likewise irrelevant.
But hey if you like doing things in droves then good for you, don't let me or common sense stop you. If a big crowd lends meaning to something for you, and being in that crowd makes standing around feel worthwhile, i'm happy for you no troll.
I've been doing the odd massive fleet engagement at odd hours for about a year and a half now, think i'll give em a miss in future.


It is also possible that people do things in droves because they are fun. As we have not determined which is the causation, the logic can easily go both ways.

Maybe you are crazy for not doing the thing that thousands of people are wanting to do?

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#54 - 2013-08-05 17:58:19 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:


The person i quoted said it was epic, my post implied that epic has the life sucked right out of it by the game wheezing under the pressure.
I log on for fun, primarily, my need for e-significance just isn't so crippling or massive that i'm willing to sit through hours of nothing to feed it. Anyone who jumps in saying it fits their idea of fun has to be crazy. The fact it used to be less fun is likewise irrelevant.
But hey if you like doing things in droves then good for you, don't let me or common sense stop you. If a big crowd lends meaning to something for you, and being in that crowd makes standing around feel worthwhile, i'm happy for you no troll.
I've been doing the odd massive fleet engagement at odd hours for about a year and a half now, think i'll give em a miss in future.





Your inability to understand that people are different from you shows that, if something is lacking, it's lacking on your end. It's usually that way.

You don't see "blobbers" saying "look at those small gang idiots, fighting in such small numbers with no TiDi, they must be crazy". Nor do you see them limiting themselves to -only- huge fleets but rather partaking in all kinds of pvp, (even solo for some).

If you don't like big fleet fights, don't fly in big fleets. But also don't pretend you're sane while those of us who don't feel need to trumpet out "elite small gang imaginary space ship skills" are somehow crazy. You're playing the same video game the rest of us are.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#55 - 2013-08-05 18:02:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:

The person i quoted said it was epic, my post implied that epic has the life sucked right out of it by the game wheezing under the pressure.
I log on for fun, primarily, my need for e-significance just isn't so crippling or massive that i'm willing to sit through hours of nothing to feed it. Anyone who jumps in saying it fits their idea of fun has to be crazy. The fact it used to be less fun is likewise irrelevant.
But hey if you like doing things in droves then good for you, don't let me or common sense stop you. If a big crowd lends meaning to something for you, and being in that crowd makes standing around feel worthwhile, i'm happy for you no troll.
I've been doing the odd massive fleet engagement at odd hours for about a year and a half now, think i'll give em a miss in future.


It is also possible that people do things in droves because they are fun. As we have not determined which is the causation, the logic can easily go both ways.

Maybe you are crazy for not doing the thing that thousands of people are wanting to do?



I think you hit on the "anti-blobbers" main point of failure. They tend to be small gang and solo pvp types, and enjoy displays of "skill". They don't understand that some of us don't care about such peacock displays of "skill" like they do. Small gang pvp is great, but after it's over, it's over. It's why (when i do feel like some pvp) I tend to fleet up for "strategic" ops more, while not so often for the "just for fun" roams and such.

Speaking for myself I very much prefer to be a part of an epic big fleet struggle , the results of which actually MEAN something in the game universe (like when i was there for the fall of C-J6 which had been the long time home system of Red Alliance, back when i was in Atlas). For folks like us it isn't about "Hey, I clicked orbit better than that other guy" it's about "I was there to witness imaginary space-history" lol.

The above is impossible to explain to narrow minded folk.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#56 - 2013-08-05 21:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:

The person i quoted said it was epic, my post implied that epic has the life sucked right out of it by the game wheezing under the pressure.
I log on for fun, primarily, my need for e-significance just isn't so crippling or massive that i'm willing to sit through hours of nothing to feed it. Anyone who jumps in saying it fits their idea of fun has to be crazy. The fact it used to be less fun is likewise irrelevant.
But hey if you like doing things in droves then good for you, don't let me or common sense stop you. If a big crowd lends meaning to something for you, and being in that crowd makes standing around feel worthwhile, i'm happy for you no troll.
I've been doing the odd massive fleet engagement at odd hours for about a year and a half now, think i'll give em a miss in future.


It is also possible that people do things in droves because they are fun. As we have not determined which is the causation, the logic can easily go both ways.

Maybe you are crazy for not doing the thing that thousands of people are wanting to do?



I think you hit on the "anti-blobbers" main point of failure. They tend to be small gang and solo pvp types, and enjoy displays of "skill". They don't understand that some of us don't care about such peacock displays of "skill" like they do. Small gang pvp is great, but after it's over, it's over. It's why (when i do feel like some pvp) I tend to fleet up for "strategic" ops more, while not so often for the "just for fun" roams and such.

Speaking for myself I very much prefer to be a part of an epic big fleet struggle , the results of which actually MEAN something in the game universe (like when i was there for the fall of C-J6 which had been the long time home system of Red Alliance, back when i was in Atlas). For folks like us it isn't about "Hey, I clicked orbit better than that other guy" it's about "I was there to witness imaginary space-history" lol.

The above is impossible to explain to narrow minded folk.

Gladiators vs. Soldiers.

Really, that's what we're talking about. Gladiators are fine, and will almost always beat your typical Soldiers in 1 v. 1, or small gang v. small gang (Unless they come up gainst SpecOps, in which case they're totally dead). But Gladiators don't take and hold territory. Soldiers do.

Why?
It's about focus.
Gladiators focus on individual skills, and they try to perform their combat in venues, places, and situations where their individual skills can be made to shine - Individual prowess is how they make their reputation and income. Reputation *matters* to them.
Soldiers, on the other hand, aren't as interested in how an individual performs - they care more about how the *team* performs - and not just today, but next week, and next year. Reputation is much less important to a Soldier than is efficiency, discipline, and staying power. Soldiers can lose fight after fight, but still win the overall war because they keep coming back (The American way of war Blink ) and can sustain the pressure as long as they can sustain the will to keep the pressure up.

Nothing wrong with being a Gladiator.
Nothing wrong with being a Soldier.
Some few can even manage to straddle the both (SpecOps).
But don't confuse them, and what they do - they're fundamentally different beasts, and complaing that Soldiers fight like Soldiers is silly - what else *would* they do..?! Likewise, the other way 'round.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2013-08-05 23:11:26 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:


But hey if you like doing things in droves then good for you, don't let me or common sense stop you. If a big crowd lends meaning to something for you, and being in that crowd makes standing around feel worthwhile, i'm happy for you no troll.
I've been doing the odd massive fleet engagement at odd hours for about a year and a half now, think i'll give em a miss in future.


It is also possible that people do things in droves because they are fun. As we have not determined which is the causation, the logic can easily go both ways.

Maybe you are crazy for not doing the thing that thousands of people are wanting to do?



...

... Soldiers can lose fight after fight, but still win the overall war because they keep coming back (The American way of war Blink ) and can sustain the pressure as long as they can sustain the will to keep the pressure up.

...


Yeah look i bolded the important bit of my post which kinda makes the responses to it unnecessary.
Also, i try never to mention real life war tactics or quote SunTzu because it leaves me open to sectarian babytalk that ruins my spaecships enjoyment.
For instance: you say the American way of war is to keep coming back, then someone with a different view starts sperging about how for the last 150 years the USA can't find an opponent with a tenth it's strength, starts every war it's ever been in only when they can tell it can't lose it and only if it's against friendless losers already depleted by sanctions/embargo/fighting. Then everybody gets all hot n buttherted and the contribution to my day drops right down the toilet.

Sitting on a Titan for 40 minutes, then watching hardly anything happen for four hours because you're more of a TEAM PLAYER?
Ever get the feeling you've been had?



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#58 - 2013-08-06 15:22:59 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:

Ever get the feeling you've been had?


Thus quoth every soldier, ever.
P
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