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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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Author
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#761 - 2013-08-04 19:42:36 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
I'm confused, so you wanted to make it so each faction would have one ship bonused with each of their weapon systems....yet...

The turret ships now HAVE to fit launchers if they want to reclaim any of their lost DPS from the loss of their BONUSED weapon system...that just doesn't make sense. I don't want to be force to fly dual weapon ships because you (CCP) think "effective turrets" is the same as actual turrets.


What i find odd is that they think navy should have an extra slot when these CS need that extra high so they wouldn't need to remove so many turrets/launchers.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Swiftus Mahyisti
The Crusty Sock Club
#762 - 2013-08-04 20:05:34 UTC
Well the changes look great to me!! For fleet boosts its pretty clear that the damnation will till rein king, but I think people are under estimating the use of info links in a large scale fleet battle, just a thought though...

On the flip side two the Eos and Astarte, I really like the changes, but to compensate for the new brutix, and removal of the turrets from the astarte, and the lack of a gun damage bonus on the eos, I would love to see a +1 low added, will make them be able to field a respectable tank in a fleet environment and still be able to do considerable dps. The t2 version of the brutix, should at least share a similar slot layout.. Just a thought! Smile

(Perhaps a bigger drone bay as well, 325m3 would allow two flights of heavy drones and them utility lights and what not)
Sarkelias Anophius
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#763 - 2013-08-04 20:13:24 UTC
FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:
Sarkelias Anophius wrote:
So what's up with people calling the Foz cancer and telling him to kill himself? Is that what this thread is about?

For the rest of those whining and crying, change is usually good, and most of these ships suck **** right now. They may need fixing later and the way they get used may change, but for christs sake, calm down. 90% of these changes are good and warranted; at least things are happening.

Good god.

Also, looking forward to ratting in my Eos, and owning an Absolution but never flying it.


get out of here obvious troll. these are BAD changes. or do you think people rage on forums for just the fun of it?.... actually don't answer that.. but i can assure you THIS ISNT ONE OF THOSE TIMES.


I'm not inclined to believe you have the slightest clue what you're talking about, since you don't state facts and don't use grammar. So I'm an incidental troll at best, legitimately confused by the ramblings of what for all intents and purposes appear to be people that fly around in hisec and have never done anything interesting.

Also I think people rage on forums because they're incapable of calm, intelligent discourse. I am continually confirmed in this belief.

As a final point, these changes did not break further anything that was already broken, and in fact improved a large number of things; so these are good changes.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#764 - 2013-08-04 20:14:55 UTC
Harvey James wrote:


What i find odd is that they think navy should have an extra slot when these CS need that extra high so they wouldn't need to remove so many turrets/launchers.


Well if we are being honest here, the Navy BCs actually have 2 more slots than the commands. Rigs are most certainly considered slots Big smile

But I do agree, command total slot number should be normalized with their parent t1.
I'm Down
Perkone
Caldari State
#765 - 2013-08-04 20:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: I'm Down
You guys need to understand, the devs have absolutely no clear vision of what is needed, nor what they want to do about it. Instead, they want to rush through changes that make little to no sense (hacs & commands) and promise us they'll watch them perform terribly and tweak later just so they can provide maximum "content" every patch. It's literally the Obama Care of Eve the way the push through this crap without any thought.

What's most amazing is that they explicitly said Commands need a lot more survivability last year.... and look at the total fail they provided.

Commands should be one of the few ship classes in game that are pretty easy to fit however desired, have silly tank, and some sort of legitimate role outside of bonuses so that more than 5 of them in fleet doesn't somehow defeat the purpose of having them in the first place.

I'd actually be totally fine with the damage they project not changing (with the exception of the NH) if they would just add some constructive ways to make these ship actually useful.


What's hilarious is that they could do some unique defensive things for the active tankers like a role bonus to fit larger repairers with reduced capacitor and fitting needs... thus making them super strong local tanks. People might actually care about the local repairs much more if they would do such a thing.

They could also inflate their actual HP bases significantly so that these things would be solid bricks...and they could easily do t with an active module that boost resist and regen effects while turning off logistics support (a mechanic they already have in game with HICs) Personally, I think a 1-2 minute timer with an non-stacking big resist boosting modifier could be the key... It basically becomes a mini siege style platform where the ship gains massive defense, but loses all support abilities from a fleet. If they had to take it further, It could also prevent any ECM effects meaning the ship would lose the ability to tackle, web, etc... allowing the opponents free movement and attack for the duration..

Something so simple like that would help to fix the majority of issues with commands.
Sigras
Conglomo
#766 - 2013-08-04 20:16:33 UTC
FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:
@ Sigras
i dont care about +10% damage to 1 damn missile type. everyone knows that in actual combat there are times where you need to fire the other types of missiles.
so boosting the specific faction is pointless. it makes the ship weaker, as does taking away a launcher, are you going to fire kinetic at someone with a 85% resist??? or are you going to hit their hole be it, em, explosive or thermal at say 45%?

well you're obviously ********, so you probably will try to make the square fit through the circle hole, and hit kin... but the rest of us arent like you.

this is HURTING the ship and dps,. NOT HELPING.

Please show me the idiots you are fighting that leave such a massive disparity in resists, or are you just assuming everyone fits ships like you do?

The only ships you might be gimped against are T2 gallente ships . . . because so many of those are awesome.
Sarkelias Anophius
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#767 - 2013-08-04 20:19:38 UTC
Sigras wrote:
FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:
@ Sigras
i dont care about +10% damage to 1 damn missile type. everyone knows that in actual combat there are times where you need to fire the other types of missiles.
so boosting the specific faction is pointless. it makes the ship weaker, as does taking away a launcher, are you going to fire kinetic at someone with a 85% resist??? or are you going to hit their hole be it, em, explosive or thermal at say 45%?

well you're obviously ********, so you probably will try to make the square fit through the circle hole, and hit kin... but the rest of us arent like you.

this is HURTING the ship and dps,. NOT HELPING.

Please show me the idiots you are fighting that leave such a massive disparity in resists, or are you just assuming everyone fits ships like you do?

The only ships you might be gimped against are T2 gallente ships . . . because so many of those are awesome.


I know, it's so funny that t2 minmatar has a giant kin hole. Shame no one flies them.
Oh wait...
I'm Down
Perkone
Caldari State
#768 - 2013-08-04 20:20:42 UTC
It would also be really cool if command ships were the primary link for communications within a fleet. In other words, if you were missing a squad command ship... your squad would have diminished broadcasting abilities for targets and repairs...

This way, attacking enemies command ships could actually cripple fleet communications.
Swiftus Mahyisti
The Crusty Sock Club
#769 - 2013-08-04 20:23:31 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
It would also be really cool if command ships were the primary link for communications within a fleet. In other words, if you were missing a squad command ship... your squad would have diminished broadcasting abilities for targets and repairs...

This way, attacking enemies command ships could actually cripple fleet communications.



But this wont happen sooo, yeah would be cool, would change everything to do with fleets, so cool sure, likely to changes, no.
Sigras
Conglomo
#770 - 2013-08-04 20:35:26 UTC
FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:
eve is the faggoty wow, cod or world of tanks of space games XD. its to easy, slow, takes to long to do anything fun, and the worst offense of all is its boring.

well scratch that the worst is ccp raping **** every time your 14 hours from the ship, then moving it back a month, then saying 2 weeks later.. oh yeah were raping your ship again.

the worst part, this is like the 19th time this has happened to me in the last year. if this launcher change is made to the nighthawk im done with you ccp.

TL;DR
WAH WAH WAH I WANT INSTANT GRATIFICATION, AND I DONT READ DEV BLOGS OR WARNINGS IN ADVANCE THAT CHANGES ARE COMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111ONEONE

CCP is the most forthcoming about future changes of any game development company out there. It isnt THEIR fault that YOU fail to read the information they provide.
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#771 - 2013-08-04 20:39:18 UTC
Sigras wrote:


CCP is the most forthcoming about future changes of any game development company out there.


Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.

Izi55IzI
Partizanski odred Slovenije
#772 - 2013-08-04 20:57:26 UTC
-50 cpu on the sleipnir is way too much


Also why are you making both ships do the same thing? Clearly you need a different set of skills to fly field command or fleet command ships
Gallurtha
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#773 - 2013-08-04 20:58:58 UTC
The dronebay on Eos is ******** small. It should have WAY bigger bay, or ishtarlike bonus to it.
Perihelion Olenard
#774 - 2013-08-04 21:05:39 UTC
Izi55IzI wrote:
...

Also why are you making both ships do the same thing? Clearly you need a different set of skills to fly field command or fleet command ships

There will be no field or fleet command ship anymore. Their skill requirements are now the same.
Battlingbean
Wings of the Dark Portal
#775 - 2013-08-04 21:37:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Battlingbean
I like the changes more or less. However, the nighthawk's slot layout is strange for a Caldari missile ship. Should be more like 7/6/4 or even 7/7/3 to make it more in line with ships like Hawk or Raven.
Sigras
Conglomo
#776 - 2013-08-04 21:48:28 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
It would also be really cool if command ships were the primary link for communications within a fleet. In other words, if you were missing a squad command ship... your squad would have diminished broadcasting abilities for targets and repairs...

This way, attacking enemies command ships could actually cripple fleet communications.

This goes along with my idea of a specialized fleet command ship that would be ideal for fleet commanders to fly. Something with a massive tank and a bonus to targeting range / being unjammable / number of targets locked, so he can broadcast targets and keep tabs on people everywhere on grid. At the cost of all damage output. This ship would have no damage output and very few utility slots making it only attractive to fleet commanders.

It occurs to me that this ship might not be very fun to fly, but fleet commanders already have enough to do, so that doesnt really matter.

My Earlier Suggestion

Damnation:
Amarr Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Armor Resistances
+5 max locked targets per level
Command Ships skill bonuses:
10% bonus to all Armor hitpoints
3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored and Information Warfare Links per level

Role Bonus: Immune to Electronic Sensor Effects (E-war, Sensor Dampening, remote sensor boosting), Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 6 H (-1), 3 M (-1), 8 L (+2) , 0 turrets (-4), 0 Launchers (-5)
Fittings: 1200(-390) PWG, 500(+25) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3500(+37) / 6000(+1395) / 4300(-24)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 70 / 87.5
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 62.5 / 80
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3375 / 750s / 4.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 (-30) / 0.7(-0.004) / 11500000 (+1000000) / 18.18s(+5.0)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 (-25) / 0 (-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 150km (+100) / 210 / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 22 Radar (+6)
Signature radius: 265
Cargo capacity: 645

The bonuses on the EOS would look similar:
EOS:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Armor Resistances
+5 max locked targets per level
Command Ships skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Repair Effects (both incoming and local)
3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored and Skirmish Warfare Links per level

Role Bonus: Immune to Electronic Sensor Effects (E-war, Sensor Dampening, remote sensor boosting), Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules

Thoughts?
Heribeck Weathers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#777 - 2013-08-04 22:22:30 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I'm Down wrote:
It would also be really cool if command ships were the primary link for communications within a fleet. In other words, if you were missing a squad command ship... your squad would have diminished broadcasting abilities for targets and repairs...

This way, attacking enemies command ships could actually cripple fleet communications.

This goes along with my idea of a specialized fleet command ship that would be ideal for fleet commanders to fly. Something with a massive tank and a bonus to targeting range / being unjammable / number of targets locked, so he can broadcast targets and keep tabs on people everywhere on grid. At the cost of all damage output. This ship would have no damage output and very few utility slots making it only attractive to fleet commanders.

It occurs to me that this ship might not be very fun to fly, but fleet commanders already have enough to do, so that doesnt really matter.

My Earlier Suggestion

Stuff



No, just no
Doed
Tyrfing Industries
#778 - 2013-08-04 22:29:17 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I'm Down wrote:
It would also be really cool if command ships were the primary link for communications within a fleet. In other words, if you were missing a squad command ship... your squad would have diminished broadcasting abilities for targets and repairs...

This way, attacking enemies command ships could actually cripple fleet communications.

This goes along with my idea of a specialized fleet command ship that would be ideal for fleet commanders to fly. Something with a massive tank and a bonus to targeting range / being unjammable / number of targets locked, so he can broadcast targets and keep tabs on people everywhere on grid. At the cost of all damage output. This ship would have no damage output and very few utility slots making it only attractive to fleet commanders.

It occurs to me that this ship might not be very fun to fly, but fleet commanders already have enough to do, so that doesnt really matter.

My Earlier Suggestion

Damnation:
Amarr Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Armor Resistances
+5 max locked targets per level
Command Ships skill bonuses:
10% bonus to all Armor hitpoints
3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored and Information Warfare Links per level

Role Bonus: Immune to Electronic Sensor Effects (E-war, Sensor Dampening, remote sensor boosting), Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules

Slot layout: 6 H (-1), 3 M (-1), 8 L (+2) , 0 turrets (-4), 0 Launchers (-5)
Fittings: 1200(-390) PWG, 500(+25) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3500(+37) / 6000(+1395) / 4300(-24)
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 70 / 87.5
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 62.5 / 80
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 3375 / 750s / 4.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120 (-30) / 0.7(-0.004) / 11500000 (+1000000) / 18.18s(+5.0)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 (-25) / 0 (-25)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 150km (+100) / 210 / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 22 Radar (+6)
Signature radius: 265
Cargo capacity: 645

The bonuses on the EOS would look similar:
EOS:
Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonuses:
4% bonus to all Armor Resistances
+5 max locked targets per level
Command Ships skill bonuses:
7.5% bonus to Repair Effects (both incoming and local)
3% bonus to effectiveness of Armored and Skirmish Warfare Links per level

Role Bonus: Immune to Electronic Sensor Effects (E-war, Sensor Dampening, remote sensor boosting), Can fit up to three Warfare Link modules

Thoughts?


This is amog the worst ideas I've ever seen on these forums, sorry.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#779 - 2013-08-04 22:57:04 UTC
fozzie just tell us what the Nighthawk is for?

it will be beautiful, but what does it mean?? (ooo double rainbow!)
Sigras
Conglomo
#780 - 2013-08-04 23:00:46 UTC
Doed wrote:
This is amog the worst ideas I've ever seen on these forums, sorry.

Its helpful to give your opinion, its more helpful to say why that is your opinion