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Ceberus is the new Talwar: Post 1.1 Fit Discussion

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masternerdguy
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-08-04 04:41:29 UTC
The Talwar can perma-run a 1MN MWD giving it obscene mobility. It also has a nice bonus to MWD sig penalty so that it can take advantage of this mobility without having the sig of a carrier.

The Cerb is getting a similar bonus in 1.1, and combined with the general fixes to the ship I think that this will basically be the HAC version of the Talwar.

Even if the MWD needs cap injection it will be impressive, and I can see swarms of Cerbs the same way we see swarms of Talwars, and they will fly in much the same way.

Thoughts?

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Whitehound
#2 - 2013-08-04 05:01:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
It is a bit early for a "Post 1.1" discussion. Maybe you mean "Pre 1.1". See also Test Server Feedback.

Not sure about the MWD. It would only give it a huge signature and at what speed? Unless it gets a sig reduction bonus might it be just as likely to be flown with an AB similar to AHACs or 100MN Tengus.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3 - 2013-08-04 07:40:51 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Unless it gets a sig reduction bonus

I guess you haven't been keeping up with things.

Oh god.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#4 - 2013-08-04 08:52:02 UTC
The only people who are going to put an AB on the Cerb are PvEers.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#5 - 2013-08-04 09:14:59 UTC
I'd put a ab on one, that said the talwar sucks, is mobility is utter crap the only thing it had going for it is alpha but arty thrasher outperforms it there.
Whitehound
#6 - 2013-08-04 10:20:38 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Unless it gets a sig reduction bonus

I guess you haven't been keeping up with things.

The changes are not yet final.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#7 - 2013-08-04 11:11:10 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The only people who are going to put an AB on the Cerb are PvEers.



[Cerberus, Cerb 1.1 Odd]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Reactor Control Unit II

100MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile

Medium Auxiliary Thrusters II
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters II



Fits easy with Odyssey 1.1.
Capstable with hardeners off, 2 minutes of caplife with hardeners on with CURRENT capacitor stats. Will be even better with 1.1.
50K EHP heated.
1289m/s with CURRENT mobility. A lot faster with 1.1.
282 DPS with Caldari Navy Scourge over 94.9 km. Light Missiles. You know, like, 280 of these dps will get applied onto anything.
160m Signature.
Tech II rigs? Tech II rigs.


New substitute for Drake / Tengu blobs?

Maybe.


We will see.
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-08-04 11:53:14 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
I'd put a ab on one, that said the talwar sucks, is mobility is utter crap the only thing it had going for it is alpha but arty thrasher outperforms it there.


Arty Thrashers can't alpha out to 60km and die even more easily.

Also Whitehound is functionally impaired and will tell you to put an AB on everything.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#9 - 2013-08-04 11:55:53 UTC
No point in shooting to 60km, cant point there (talking about pvp that requires skill, not blobwarfare), at 20km a arty thrasher usually outalphas a talwar due to damage application of lmls vs moving targets.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-08-04 16:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Onictus
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
No point in shooting to 60km, cant point there (talking about pvp that requires skill, not blobwarfare), at 20km a arty thrasher usually outalphas a talwar due to damage application of lmls vs moving targets.


We don't all live in low, Talwar is kind of a beast for what it is. The thing slings light missiles an impressive range while being able to smoke most cruisers not called Vagabond.

Oh yeah and on Topic

....the RLM Cerb may be pretty amusing.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
#11 - 2013-08-04 16:40:33 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The only people who are going to put an AB on the Cerb are PvEers.



[Cerberus, Cerb 1.1 Odd]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Reactor Control Unit II

100MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile

Medium Auxiliary Thrusters II
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters II



Fits easy with Odyssey 1.1.
Capstable with hardeners off, 2 minutes of caplife with hardeners on with CURRENT capacitor stats. Will be even better with 1.1.
50K EHP heated.
1289m/s with CURRENT mobility. A lot faster with 1.1.
282 DPS with Caldari Navy Scourge over 94.9 km. Light Missiles. You know, like, 280 of these dps will get applied onto anything.
160m Signature.
Tech II rigs? Tech II rigs.


New substitute for Drake / Tengu blobs?

Maybe.


We will see.

*casually copies fit to notepad*

That is pure evil Twisted

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#12 - 2013-08-04 16:55:24 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
No point in shooting to 60km, cant point there (talking about pvp that requires skill, not blobwarfare), at 20km a arty thrasher usually outalphas a talwar due to damage application of lmls vs moving targets.


Just because it's not the same way you pvp it doesn't mean it's wrong. Look at the PIZZA killboard (assuming it doesn't give you eye cancer from its color scheme) and you will see they use 10 - 20 man talwar gangs with bomber support to great success.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-08-04 18:21:21 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The only people who are going to put an AB on the Cerb are PvEers.



[Cerberus, Cerb 1.1 Odd]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Reactor Control Unit II

100MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile

Medium Auxiliary Thrusters II
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters II



Fits easy with Odyssey 1.1.
Capstable with hardeners off, 2 minutes of caplife with hardeners on with CURRENT capacitor stats. Will be even better with 1.1.
50K EHP heated.
1289m/s with CURRENT mobility. A lot faster with 1.1.
282 DPS with Caldari Navy Scourge over 94.9 km. Light Missiles. You know, like, 280 of these dps will get applied onto anything.
160m Signature.
Tech II rigs? Tech II rigs.


New substitute for Drake / Tengu blobs?

Maybe.


We will see.


If you're going to fit RLMs on it why not just use an XLASB and a MWD to actually take advantage of the sig bonus?
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#14 - 2013-08-04 18:52:52 UTC
Because the fit i designed wasn't supposed for solo or smallscale, but for the faggottry that is missile-spam-blob. At first Drakes were doing this with their cheap pricetag, good tank and low skillpoint requirement. Then Tengus did it more efficiently. Both got the Heavy Missile Nerfbat and can do this only at 70km now.

This thing brings back those glorious days with similar damage application, burning at 90-100km with a 100mn AB that will continue to propell them even if someone lands a scram.

And an XLASB is contraproductive if you want to get logilove.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-08-04 18:58:54 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Because the fit i designed wasn't supposed for solo or smallscale, but for the faggottry that is missile-spam-blob. At first Drakes were doing this with their cheap pricetag, good tank and low skillpoint requirement. Then Tengus did it more efficiently. Both got the Heavy Missile Nerfbat and can do this only at 70km now.

This thing brings back those glorious days with similar damage application, burning at 90-100km with a 100mn AB that will continue to propell them even if someone lands a scram.

And an XLASB is contraproductive if you want to get logilove.



Except that it won't work now.

1200m/s with TECH TWO navigation rigs is unacceptable, you are still going to get run down by battleships, and you the one place you don't want to be is on the receiving end of large turrets at their chosen range. Sig only gets you so far, a couple target painters and it doesn't matter how small you sig is, you are going to get blapped.

That being said that isn't a terrible build for an anti-tackle support boat.......no way in hell I would use T2 rigs, but that is the general idea.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#16 - 2013-08-04 19:01:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrias Bizniz
If you only informed yourself slightly better. Those rigs usually cost 8-11m, but someone bought up all the cheap stuff in Jita.
You know, same pricetag like medium ancillary current router I.

Also, the speed you are looking at right now is with the CURRENT mobility stats the cerberus has. it will get +45m/s basespeed with the patch that will enable this fitting grid, cpu and hardpointwise.



Edit: All the things you stated above would also apply to Battleships blapping Tengublobs. Most of the time it was vice versa though.
Whitehound
#17 - 2013-08-04 19:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Onictus wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Because the fit i designed wasn't supposed for solo or smallscale, but for the faggottry that is missile-spam-blob. At first Drakes were doing this with their cheap pricetag, good tank and low skillpoint requirement. Then Tengus did it more efficiently. Both got the Heavy Missile Nerfbat and can do this only at 70km now.

This thing brings back those glorious days with similar damage application, burning at 90-100km with a 100mn AB that will continue to propell them even if someone lands a scram.

And an XLASB is contraproductive if you want to get logilove.



Except that it won't work now.

1200m/s with TECH TWO navigation rigs is unacceptable, you are still going to get run down by battleships, and you the one place you don't want to be is on the receiving end of large turrets at their chosen range. Sig only gets you so far, a couple target painters and it doesn't matter how small you sig is, you are going to get blapped.

That being said that isn't a terrible build for an anti-tackle support boat.......no way in hell I would use T2 rigs, but that is the general idea.

While you only bring a counter to a counter does this not mean it does not work. There is always a counter to a doctrine and 100MN Tengus and AB AHACs were a counter to other fleet doctrines, too.

The currently proposed 50% signature reduction bonus is nice, but not as strong as the one on the Interceptors and will leave the Cerebus with a 400m signature radius. It is also supposed to get 20% more speed, which could put it ahead of MWD battleships when fitted with 100MN AB leaving it open as an alternative, and having variety is good.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-08-04 19:17:23 UTC
Am I the only one thoroughly disgusted by how basically all PvP is degenerating into figuring out what blob composition you need to insta-pop your targets at the greatest possible range? Your Cerb with RLMs does half the damage HMLs used to do, oh well, I guess that means we just need to make our blob twice the size!
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-08-04 21:12:43 UTC
You should cry about it
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#20 - 2013-08-04 21:26:41 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
Xequecal wrote:
Am I the only one thoroughly disgusted by how basically all PvP is degenerating into figuring out what blob composition you need to insta-pop your targets at the greatest possible range? Your Cerb with RLMs does half the damage HMLs used to do, oh well, I guess that means we just need to make our blob twice the size!


Not really, a rlml cerb puts out 450dps with these changes, 450dps that is perfectly applied at everything bar frigates, and with a ammo change even frigs get hit perfectly.

With new links supporting it you are looking at 100k ehp (with heat), 450m sig, 2150m/s mwd speed, 450dps that hits all non frigs for full damage (cant stress this enough, a hml drake does in reality way less vs non bs targets, even prenerf).

Thats ab zealot dps with a better tank, quite a fearsome beast.

And for the loss of 1 ballistic control system you can fit a 100mn ab, leaving the cerb at a 1700m/s preheat ab speed with loki links, providing some real nice speed/sig tank.


But then, caracal does nearly the same for a whole less isk, and training for a cerb takes forever so i dont think we will see many cerb fleets.
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