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Is Scamming Killing The Future Of Eve?
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Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2011-11-11 02:13:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Diosas wrote:
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Dyner wrote:
The answer is Yes and No

Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential.


no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game.



is there evidence of this? or just assumptions?


lol youre trolling right?

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/12/biggest-eve-online-scam-ever-recorded-nets-over-a-trillion-isk/

cause things like that, or knowing you CAN, you have the FREEDOM to do things like that in a game is a DRAW not a negative. Might as well ask the same question for espionage.


Uh-huh .. and that trilion of isk has been scammed from few weeks old character at recruite chanell ?

Honestly i dont see reason for or against such rule. It doesnt really matter.
Only thing it can provoke is pointless/repetitive work for GMs to sort all those who start playing this game and somehow find out that they have been scamed and its somehow tied to some text nobody ever reads and they can petition it and hope to get other answer than Sh1t happens get over it. HTFU o guess it was or is..

probably wrong thread, got it mixed up.. My apology
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#62 - 2011-11-11 02:14:34 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Diosas wrote:
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Dyner wrote:
The answer is Yes and No

Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential.


no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game.



is there evidence of this? or just assumptions?



I read that story about the Great Scam years ago and it was the memory of it, coupled with the few news stories of similar events on gaming sites and forums, that made me install this game and subscribe for 12 months in a blind leap of faith.


Me too but it was GHSC

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#63 - 2011-11-11 02:34:42 UTC
Back in the day reputation meant something. Scamming was an interesting aspect of the game. Now, with the proliferation of alts you have every Tom, **** and Harry endlessly doing the same tired old scams. It's not surprising that the game looks like a worthless cesspool to many prospective new players. Make no mistake about it, that is Eve's reputation. I try to explain that there's so much more to the game, but new players just see the garbage and decide the game isn't their cup of tea.

No good deed goes unpunished
Fix Lag
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2011-11-11 02:36:50 UTC
Yeah I understand it's hard to sell Eve to your friends when CCP lets it turn into a piece of **** by not releasing an expansion for two years

CCP mostly sucks at their job, but Veritas is a pretty cool dude.
Dyner
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2011-11-11 02:37:41 UTC
Maxpie wrote:
Back in the day reputation meant something. Scamming was an interesting aspect of the game. Now, with the proliferation of alts you have every Tom, **** and Harry endlessly doing the same tired old scams. It's not surprising that the game looks like a worthless cesspool to many prospective new players. Make no mistake about it, that is Eve's reputation. I try to explain that there's so much more to the game, but new players just see the garbage and decide the game isn't their cup of tea.



Can only scam the willing.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#66 - 2011-11-11 02:37:50 UTC
wait... this is EVE... Its THE leet of the leet hardcore games. I thought we didnt WANT every "Tom **** and Harry" here

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Zions Child
Higashikata Industries
#67 - 2011-11-11 02:38:30 UTC
You know why I didn't read the OP? Because if you think scamming is killing EVE, you're killing EVE. **** off.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2011-11-11 02:43:34 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Not to drop names or anything, but there is a certain Star Wars-themed MMO that is debuting soon that might be more up your alley if an experience closer to World of Warcraft than EVE Online is what you prefer. There is also a Star Trek-themed MMO, and I am sure if you look that you could find many other examples of the "standard" MMO fare, set in space. What differentiates EVE Online from other MMOs isn't so much that it's set in space, since as I said that niche has been trespassed by other MMOs by now, but that there is a certain type of laissez-faire and dystopian Wild West feel to it that invites you in with promises of the ability to do stuff that matters in the only way that truly can matter—by having a real and lasting effect on other players.

bolded, itlicized, and underlined whats important...

if CCP ever makes a second MMO, it should be a firefly MMO.
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#69 - 2011-11-11 02:48:20 UTC
Future ? What Future ?
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#70 - 2011-11-11 03:42:40 UTC
Big Bad Mofo wrote:
[...]very rarely you see point and click games or those adventure games etc all a big thing in the past but not really anymore.[...]


Oooohohoho... but i beg to differe...

You, kind sir, obvioulsy know nothing about PnC games and their popularity.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2011-11-11 03:51:29 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Future ? What Future ?


The one we're living in right now.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Gealla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2011-11-11 03:54:06 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Diosas wrote:
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Dyner wrote:
The answer is Yes and No

Yes, scamming prevents the game from reaching it's Player Base potential.


no cause really BIG scams BRING ppl into the game.



is there evidence of this? or just assumptions?


lol youre trolling right?

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/08/12/biggest-eve-online-scam-ever-recorded-nets-over-a-trillion-isk/

cause things like that, or knowing you CAN, you have the FREEDOM to do things like that in a game is a DRAW not a negative. Might as well ask the same question for espionage.



A good scam will have more victims than scammers, or else the money just isn't there (obviously excluding 1 on 1 scams) so even though brilliant scams will attract scammers to the game, they will deter a significantly higher number of victims from ever playing (i think this is the point some are trying to make)

And yes I think it is assumption based on personal experiences, folks that like to scam probably know and associate with others of the same ilk. Those that don't, won't....personally i've been in different corps with hundreds of different players and only a small % were into scamming in a big way, so there must be something else that attracts people to this game.....
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2011-11-11 04:18:11 UTC
I will say that over the past month I have noticed a, no hyperbole, shocking amount of people that manage to play this game for a substantial period without understanding some of its defining features like scamming and ganking. I am against changing any mechanics to help better protect people, but perhaps CCP is failing to inform people of some of the aspects of the game they are signing up to play.

I fully embrace the darker side of Eve, yet I might be upset if I somehow managed to accumulate something worth losing without understanding that it can be lost.

Normally I'd say it's just stupid people being stupid, but the general discourse on the forums lately has made me think that perhaps this is a serious problem with how the game is being marketed now.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2011-11-11 04:25:18 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
I will say that over the past month I have noticed a, no hyperbole, shocking amount of people that manage to play this game for a substantial period without understanding some of its defining features like scamming and ganking. I am against changing any mechanics to help better protect people, but perhaps CCP is failing to inform people of some of the aspects of the game they are signing up to play.

I fully embrace the darker side of Eve, yet I might be upset if I somehow managed to accumulate something worth losing without understanding that it can be lost.

Normally I'd say it's just stupid people being stupid, but the general discourse on the forums lately has made me think that perhaps this is a serious problem with how the game is being marketed now.



The only way for that to happen is to play EVE as a single player game for years. I have no idea how they manage this.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#75 - 2011-11-11 04:40:01 UTC
A well executed scam is a thing of beauty. A true artist can pull a perfect scam and write up an entertaining story about it for all to read.

Over the years I have enjoyed reading about (and even participating in) some of these masterful feats of legerdemain.

On the other hand running a scambot in Jita local is just plain annoying and should be cracked down on. Seriously, there needs to be a line between scamming and sheer stupid pissing people off. It's about the greater good. Sure fleece the stupid. It's how we teach them. But some of you people think you can do any stupid thing you want and it's fine just because.

Well it's not fine, imo. Push it and CCP will shut you down. Hard. It's happened before. It's happening now. And it will happen in the future.

Stop being so selfish and arrogant and start playing the game like you care about it.

Mr Epeen Cool
Admiral Ripstar
Semi Supervillains
#76 - 2011-11-11 04:47:44 UTC
The solution to all Eve's problems. Make Tranq. like SiSi. We could blow ships up all day. Have epic battles without worry of loss ships or isk. Undock 1000's of Titans just to watch them blow up.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2011-11-11 04:51:04 UTC
You, sir, do not deserve the name BIG BAD MOFO. You are anything but, carebear. :)
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2011-11-11 04:52:54 UTC
Admiral Ripstar wrote:
The solution to all Eve's problems. Make Tranq. like SiSi. We could blow ships up all day. Have epic battles without worry of loss ships or isk. Undock 1000's of Titans just to watch them blow up.



And consequently, make everything meaningless.

Have you never played a single player game with cheat codes on?

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Shawn Pierce
Live For This
#79 - 2011-11-11 05:00:10 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
I will say that over the past month I have noticed a, no hyperbole, shocking amount of people that manage to play this game for a substantial period without understanding some of its defining features like scamming and ganking. I am against changing any mechanics to help better protect people, but perhaps CCP is failing to inform people of some of the aspects of the game they are signing up to play.

I fully embrace the darker side of Eve, yet I might be upset if I somehow managed to accumulate something worth losing without understanding that it can be lost.

Normally I'd say it's just stupid people being stupid, but the general discourse on the forums lately has made me think that perhaps this is a serious problem with how the game is being marketed now.

No, it's the general trend of where the real world is going, at least in the US. Everything is being made easier and more convenient. Safer. You don't see metal jungle gyms and swing sets and monkey bars any more -- they're all being made of plastic now. Less injuries that way or something (less lawsuits is my theory, but anyway...). Everybody's metaphorically putting their kids in bubble wrap before sending them out into the real world. Education is going the same way -- high school students are supposed to pass two major tests in order to graduate, and yet they can fail one of them three times and the system will still let them graduate without actually passing that (supposedly required) test. Even if the students pass both tests, they still aren't really equipped for the world that awaits them.

Other MMOs are for the bubble-wrapped kiddies. EVE appeals to those who have realized that the rest of life isn't as easy as graduating from high school. I hope it stays that way.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2011-11-11 05:06:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
If CCP took steps to protect people from being scammed (more than they already have) by their own stupidity, I think EVE would lose it's player base that keeps people logging in. EVE's allure is primarily based on it's devious nature and high drama. Scamming adds to that drama in such a drastic way that I believe EVE would die faster by if there were rules against it.

You can chose to be a scammer in EVE or you can chose to follow the path of e-bushido and find ways to white knight the dumb. It's entirely up to you and is why EVE continues to be one of the ONLY MMO's on the market with a steady increase of subs each year.

Ruin the sandbox and you ruin the game. In the end, you'll lose more players than you retain. If CCP wants to work on retention, they need to keep developing the new player experience and providing insta-gratification carrots for people with newer accounts. The main thing that keeps people in this game sure aren't the game mechanics... It's seeing a pilot who's been playing for a couple years undock in an awesome ship that puts the sparkle in your eye for something to work towards. This or epic fleet fights or large wars in null sec. Guess who's running much of the scams and those epic fleet fights... the scammers and veterans who came to EVE because it allows for the choice to participate in such behavior.

If you make the game less fun for the people who fly the big shinies, you'll have far less player retention than the game has now because newbies will have less to look forward to.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement