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Goonswarm: Return on Investment
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Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-08-02 10:29:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
baltec1 wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:

However, the moon income goes into the wallets of a few wealthy individuals whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts. For the small elite that controls alliance wallets the war might look profitable because structures your members grind for you are free.


Only in the terrible, lesser groups we kick out.

Our finances go into providing free pvp ships and activities for everyone from day one newbees to Mr. Vee.

the core point of that paragraph was "whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts".

your post about "free pvp activities" that your members are apparently expected to be grateful for illustrates that point very nicely. we would laugh at any corp that offers "free mining activities - give all your mined minerals to the corp, we will trash half of them and use the rest to reimburse mining barges lost to gankers". But that is exactly what is going on in pvp fleets - you aren't making any profit, you are spending a lot more in opportunity cost than your moons will ever earn. The illusion that your behavior is financially profitable only arises from the division between alliance finances and individual members' finances and the fact that the most of the cost of a war is assigned to the second category and ignored.

I'm not saying that you running unprofitable pvp fleets is any worse than running unprofitable mining fleets - some people are willing to do pvp for free, other people like to do mining for free, who am I to judge? But pretending that what you are doing is economically profitable is laughable.

.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#22 - 2013-08-02 10:36:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Alavaria Fera wrote:
It'll be at least a whole month just to pay off the, what is it now, 1.5 trillion, 2 trillion, maybe 3 trillion ISK we paid Black Legion?

So more like 3 months just for that.

The war's over and we can stop spinning, we all know it was 750bil a week day.

As to the OPs question - CFC and TEST parted ways quite a while ago and remained blue. TEST then tried to form a super coalition to destroy us (or bare minimum, kill FA) which we weren't giant fans of to be square with you. This resulted in both sides resetting one another, about 6 months before we decided to invade.

TEST, in a startling and naive attempt at revisionist history, have claimed we backstabbed our friends by invading fountain. It's a bizarre party line that never falls apart because when you mention it to a member of TEST, they simply plug their ears and go LALLAALALALALALALALALALA.

With this in mind, the OPs question isn't really valid. TEST had a rich region that by our estimation we could take. With no standings between us we simply went and took it.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#23 - 2013-08-02 10:43:41 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Vera Algaert wrote:

However, the moon income goes into the wallets of a few wealthy individuals whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts. For the small elite that controls alliance wallets the war might look profitable because structures your members grind for you are free.


Only in the terrible, lesser groups we kick out.

Our finances go into providing free pvp ships and activities for everyone from day one newbees to Mr. Vee.

the core point of that paragraph was "whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts".

your post about "free pvp activities" that your members are apparently expected to be grateful for illustrates that point very nicely. we would laugh at any corp that offers "free mining activities - give all your mined minerals to the corp, we will trash half of them and use the rest to reimburse mining barges lost to gankers". But that is exactly what is going on in pvp fleets - you aren't making any profit, you are spending a lot more in opportunity cost than your moons will ever earn. The illusion that your behavior is financially profitable only arises from the division between alliance finances and individual members' finances and the fact that the most of the cost of a war is assigned to the second category and ignored.

I'm not saying that you running unprofitable pvp fleets is any worse than running unprofitable mining fleets - some people are willing to do pvp for free, other people like to do mining for free, who am I to judge? But pretending that what you are doing is economically profitable is laughable.

ahahahahahahahahah you read gevlons blog

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#24 - 2013-08-02 10:47:04 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Vera Algaert wrote:

the core point of that paragraph was "whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts".

your post about "free pvp activities" that your members are apparently expected to be grateful for illustrates that point very nicely. we would laugh at any corp that offers "free mining activities - give all your mined minerals to the corp, we will trash half of them and use the rest to reimburse mining barges lost to gankers". But that is exactly what is going on in pvp fleets - you aren't making any profit, you are spending a lot more in opportunity cost than your moons will ever earn. The illusion that your behavior is financially profitable only arises from the division between alliance finances and individual members' finances and the fact that the most of the cost of a war is assigned to the second category and ignored.

I'm not saying that you running unprofitable pvp fleets is any worse than running unprofitable mining fleets - some people are willing to do pvp for free, other people like to do mining for free, who am I to judge? But pretending that what you are doing is economically profitable is laughable.


Our mining activities tend to involve destroyers, explosions and overflowing buckets.

Also you only calculated the r64 moons yes? You need to add in everything else.
Joss56
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-08-02 10:55:49 UTC
+1 to set another region on fire

Or is this about pve?
Laserak
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-08-02 12:15:42 UTC
Zane Lowe wrote:
I heard it was 5 trillion and a copy of GTA V for every member of BL


I am ratting right now to help pay for black legion
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-08-02 12:54:41 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
However, the moon income goes into the wallets of a few wealthy individuals whereas most of the cost falls on the shoulders of the grunts. For the small elite that controls alliance wallets the war might look profitable because structures your members grind for you are free.


yeah uh no it doesn't

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-08-02 12:58:56 UTC
if our members were concerned about how flying in fleet ops comes at a cost to them because they could instead spend that time making isk, they'd be in hisec

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-08-02 13:02:08 UTC
I do all of my bearing while on ops.

It's not that hard to scan a couple sites while storing at a titan.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-08-02 13:14:32 UTC
but why go on the op instead of making even more isk?

didn't vera algaert tell you, the total amount of isk in your wallet is like a score

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#31 - 2013-08-02 14:19:29 UTC

Some mentioned the other moons. Also, CFC members now get an expanded area for planetary interaction, mining, ratting, missions, and more. I'm certainly no fan of any of that, but It's outside the control of the New Order's highsec.

Let's not forget the fire sale deals available in former TEST stations.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-08-02 14:24:28 UTC
Capt Starfox wrote:
I just wanted to shoot at stuff, call me old fashioned.


Considering that Li3 is a CFC alliance that doesn't tell prospective corps that suicide ganking, pirating & all the other fun stuff is not allowed until after they've joined, this does not surprise me at all.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-08-02 14:26:46 UTC
Zane Lowe wrote:
I heard it was 5 trillion and a copy of GTA V for every member of BL


After extensive deliberation we agreed on giving them copies of Saints Row IV instead, because it's a better game in every way.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
beancounter Jaynara
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-08-02 14:32:49 UTC

If you are in TEST and still have ships left behind in Fountain stations or in Karan, I am still in the process of moving assets to NOL. For ships, rename the ships to your name so i can keep them straight. For items, throw in a named can, and jump freighters will handle those. Contract everything to me as a private item exchange, 0 isk.

For those that contracted me stuff yesterday in Karan, there has been a slight delay. All ships and items contracted by Sunday at midnight will be moved within 72 hours. Since this is a free service, it's still a good deal.

Also, I would like to thank the TEST pilot who gave me this idea for such a valuable service to help out. He was in Karan yesterday asking for carrier pilots to help move stuff. Of course, since I have carrier and jump freighter alts in system, I offered my assistance at no cost since I'm going that way anyway.

I'll see you guys in NOL.

Corp Recruitment Specialist- now for hire! For a small fee, I will grow your corp, using all the secrets I have learned in powerful nullsec alliances that they don't want you to know about!  Beware jelly haters who will contact you with vicious lies!  They just want to keep these secrets to themselves!
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#35 - 2013-08-02 14:44:25 UTC
The real question is - what is the cost of paying and playing a game you do nothing in.
The war was fun - that was the cost

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-08-02 14:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
Khanh'rhh wrote:

The war's over and we can stop spinning, we all know it was 750bil a week day.


Wait- the war is over now?
I didn't spend much time in Eve or the TEST forums after 6VDT, so this is a serious question here.
Is the great war officially over now and can we all go home, marry our fiancées, buy beautiful little farms in Kansas, grow old and sit all day on the stoops in rocking chairs and yell at the kids to get off the lawn?

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#37 - 2013-08-02 14:55:03 UTC
I remember how the TESTies would be right alongside the goons in all that asshattery.

If they are crying now, which I doubt anyway because they don't seem to really care, it's well-deserved.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#38 - 2013-08-02 14:55:44 UTC
Onictus wrote:
I do all of my bearing while on ops.

It's not that hard to scan a couple sites while storing at a titan.

Just... don't let NCdot bump you out of the pos shields, or you'll need to bear a bit to get another one

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#39 - 2013-08-02 14:59:35 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

The war's over and we can stop spinning, we all know it was 750bil a week day.


Wait- the war is over now?
I didn't spend much time in Eve or the TEST forums after 6VDT, so this is a serious question here.
Is the great war officially over now and can we all go home, marry our fiancées, buy beautiful little farms in Kansas, grow old and sit all day on the stoops in rocking chairs and yell at the kids to get off the lawn?


Yes, the war in Fountain is over. I helped broker peace in Fountain. Throughout this war, I have worked behind the scenes to bring about a satisfactory end. For instance, Iamien expedited the cleaning out of the Test logistics hangars. He is now in my corp and back to work as my logistics director. My old friend Daquaris has left Test. Callduron smashed his fleet against Goons for "fun" when everyone else in his fleet wanted to flee. Ingen Ker has left Test. I would post my chats with BoodaBooda, but that's against the forum rules. Let's just say that Booda agrees that losing sov is great fun. My only concern is that he seems genuinely confused about how to run an alliance and how station timers work. Hopefully when he leaves Test, he'll do so in grand style.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#40 - 2013-08-02 15:02:16 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Wait- the war is over now?
I didn't spend much time in Eve or the TEST forums after 6VDT, so this is a serious question here.

Yeah it's over, you can continue to lot log in to eve online.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?