These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Bloody Hands on Atlanins

Author
Gosakumori Noh
End Of Mankind
#121 - 2013-08-01 23:18:38 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
God, it's enough to make me think that perhaps a new reclaiming is a good idea after all.


Give it a few more months and you'll be there.
Ragnar STS
Arcane Odyssey
Electus Matari
#122 - 2013-08-01 23:45:01 UTC
I look forward to painting a bloodied fist on my ships while I defend against another Amarr campaign. The trouble is Amarr blood is so thin, it tends to run...just like Amarr.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#123 - 2013-08-02 01:05:54 UTC
Ragnar STS wrote:
I look forward to painting a bloodied fist on my ships while I defend against another Amarr campaign. The trouble is Amarr blood is so thin, it tends to run...just like Amarr.


Some of us are so edgy that we might just cut ourselves.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#124 - 2013-08-02 03:55:10 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
"Our side" and "their side" doesn't really exist when you're engaging in hostile fire against your allies on their territory in an illegal attack.


It doesn't matter who's involved in the conflict. When there is a fight between two groups, there are inherently two sides. My loyalties are too the Republic. My loyalty to allies of the Republic comes second to my loyalty to the Republic. My loyalties lie in the order of clan > tribe > republic > allies of the republic.

Quote:
If anything what you consider to be "our side" was undertaking an action that would weaken the alliance that the Republic needs to keep the Amarrian Empire at bay, if anything what you consider to be "our side" was working against the best interests of the Republic, and really wasn't "your side" at all.


It's not my place to make the judgment as to whether or not the actions were in the best interest of the Republic, especially not while on the field of battle. For one, there was no time to deliberate on the matter. While I'm fully aware that the leadership of the Republic will not always make the right decision, there are times when I simply must trust and hope that they know what they're doing.

As for the process of determining if that trust was misplaced...that is a private matter and not something that I care to share with one such as yourself.
Gosakumori Noh
End Of Mankind
#125 - 2013-08-02 04:21:20 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
For one, there was no time to deliberate on the matter.


There's this little exercise where you pretend to be someone else. Some people call it "role playing." On occasion, it produces insights quickly, and starts off a bit like this: "Oh, dear, our beloved leader has been shot! We should honor her. What would our beloved leader herself do under these circumstances?"

You see, you're playing the role of the beloved leader, in an attempt to follow the beloved leader's example.... I'm sorry, that's all a bit over your head, isn't it, sweetheart?

Anyway, the Universe tossed you lot a softball, and you beat yourselves in the face with the bats. Anyone capable of pretending to be Dead Middie is invited to imagine how Things Might Have Been if only more competent heads had prevailed.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#126 - 2013-08-02 04:30:43 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ragnar STS wrote:
I look forward to painting a bloodied fist on my ships while I defend against another Amarr campaign. The trouble is Amarr blood is so thin, it tends to run...just like Amarr.


Some of us are so edgy that we might just cut ourselves.



That's why you and Verin have to wear chin-guards when you sleep, right?

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#127 - 2013-08-02 04:51:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Caellach Marellus
Katarina Musana wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
If anything what you consider to be "our side" was undertaking an action that would weaken the alliance that the Republic needs to keep the Amarrian Empire at bay, if anything what you consider to be "our side" was working against the best interests of the Republic, and really wasn't "your side" at all.


It's not my place to make the judgment as to whether or not the actions were in the best interest of the Republic, especially not while on the field of battle. For one, there was no time to deliberate on the matter. While I'm fully aware that the leadership of the Republic will not always make the right decision, there are times when I simply must trust and hope that they know what they're doing.

As for the process of determining if that trust was misplaced...that is a private matter and not something that I care to share with one such as yourself.


You had all the time in the world to make that judgement call, long before the fleet even jumped the border. Warnings of fleet movements had been broadcasted hours before, you don't make a snap call the second the guns start firing. That's a **** poor excuse to say you didn't have time to deliberate, you had the better part of a day to decide "what if."

And you have a mind capable of independent thought, you don't take orders from the Republic leadership, you are an independent. You choose to willingly follow without question rather than make your own decisions, it really is the blind leading the blind on this one.

Besides it's hardly gravimetric science, you don't see the Federation invading the Republic, you don't see the State and the Empire invading each other, and why? Because it's the dumbest thing you can do on so many levels, hell just look at the treatment AWOXers get in the Militia, now apply that to politics on a massive scale.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Stitcher
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#128 - 2013-08-02 13:55:53 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Some of us are so edgy that we might just cut ourselves.



That's why you and Verin have to wear chin-guards when you sleep, right?


That's for Nicole's protection rather than my own.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Shintoko Akahoshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2013-08-02 15:00:44 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Some of us are so edgy that we might just cut ourselves.



That's why you and Verin have to wear chin-guards when you sleep, right?


That's for Nicole's protection rather than my own.


Sharp answer!

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#130 - 2013-08-02 15:01:39 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
Stitcher wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Some of us are so edgy that we might just cut ourselves.



That's why you and Verin have to wear chin-guards when you sleep, right?


That's for Nicole's protection rather than my own.


Sharp answer!


And right to the point, too.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#131 - 2013-08-02 23:13:35 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Some of us are so edgy that we might just cut ourselves.



That's why you and Verin have to wear chin-guards when you sleep, right?


That's for Nicole's protection rather than my own.


Fortunately Des, being Civire, is chin-proof.

Well, not proof, susceptible to my chin, apparently - but not in a bleedy cutty sort of way.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#132 - 2013-08-06 17:12:06 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You had all the time in the world to make that judgement call, long before the fleet even jumped the border. Warnings of fleet movements had been broadcasted hours before, you don't make a snap call the second the guns start firing. That's a **** poor excuse to say you didn't have time to deliberate, you had the better part of a day to decide "what if."


Incorrect. We knew that the Fleet was going to be there, yes. We went there with the specific intention of trying to talk both sides out of fighting. When the fighting actually started, we had to decide what to do, so we chose to stand by our loyalties.

Quote:
And you have a mind capable of independent thought, you don't take orders from the Republic leadership, you are an independent. You choose to willingly follow without question rather than make your own decisions, it really is the blind leading the blind on this one.


If loyalty is a concept you can't understand, then that's your problem.

There's a time and a place for asking questions, and in the middle of a battle is not one. That we don't make our answer-seeking public to the rest of the cluster is again our business, nor does it mean that we do not ask questions. I assure you, a lot of questions have been asked regarding Colelie.

So you can take your assumptions and shove'em up your ass where they belong.
Anslo
Scope Works
#133 - 2013-08-06 17:34:48 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
You had all the time in the world to make that judgement call, long before the fleet even jumped the border. Warnings of fleet movements had been broadcasted hours before, you don't make a snap call the second the guns start firing. That's a **** poor excuse to say you didn't have time to deliberate, you had the better part of a day to decide "what if."


Incorrect. We knew that the Fleet was going to be there, yes. We went there with the specific intention of trying to talk both sides out of fighting. When the fighting actually started, we had to decide what to do, so we chose to stand by our loyalties.

Quote:
And you have a mind capable of independent thought, you don't take orders from the Republic leadership, you are an independent. You choose to willingly follow without question rather than make your own decisions, it really is the blind leading the blind on this one.


If loyalty is a concept you can't understand, then that's your problem.

There's a time and a place for asking questions, and in the middle of a battle is not one. That we don't make our answer-seeking public to the rest of the cluster is again our business, nor does it mean that we do not ask questions. I assure you, a lot of questions have been asked regarding Colelie.

So you can take your assumptions and shove'em up your ass where they belong.

Right after you take your bullshit circular logic, holierthanthou excuses, and that overly aggresive attitude you call 'loyalty' and 'pride' and shove them firmly up your own Musana.

Oh, and before you say I'm mad cause you turned me down for a date (self centered much), let me just have a seat to laugh at you ignoring the past 50 odd posts of your dickery and laughable circular logic where you can do no wrong.

Get bent, *****.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#134 - 2013-08-06 18:04:25 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Right after you take your bullshit circular logic, holierthanthou excuses, and that overly aggresive attitude you call 'loyalty' and 'pride' and shove them firmly up your own Musana.

Oh, and before you say I'm mad cause you turned me down for a date (self centered much), let me just have a seat to laugh at you ignoring the past 50 odd posts of your dickery and laughable circular logic where you can do no wrong.

Get bent, *****.



Don't worry, Anslo, dear. Someday you'll learn what logic is, right after you grow up and become an adult like the rest of us.

And do let me know if you'd like some literacy classes. I still have some of the books my daughter used when she was a child learning how to read. I think you'll find them quite useful.
Anslo
Scope Works
#135 - 2013-08-06 18:14:06 UTC
Oh no here we go, Musana the brave still fearing what she don't know. Can't even see how much worse she makes herself look going to ad hominem without even addressing any of the points brought up against her.

Seriously, you make my points speak for themselves everytime you spam up IGS with your RAWR ME MINMATAR. But hold up, do you see Ava Starfire doing this? Kyllsa? Even Anabella god damn Rella? You're so lost in circular spite that you can't even see that you're a laughing stock. Get over yourself. You're a broken record.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
SE7EN-SINS
#136 - 2013-08-06 18:55:21 UTC
In my experience, the danger of a Civire chin is less "razor blade" and more "sandpaper."

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#137 - 2013-08-06 19:43:18 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Oh no here we go, Musana the brave still fearing what she don't know. Can't even see how much worse she makes herself look going to ad hominem without even addressing any of the points brought up against her.

Seriously, you make my points speak for themselves everytime you spam up IGS with your RAWR ME MINMATAR. But hold up, do you see Ava Starfire doing this? Kyllsa? Even Anabella god damn Rella? You're so lost in circular spite that you can't even see that you're a laughing stock. Get over yourself. You're a broken record.



I just love how you accuse me of ad hominem when ad hominem is all you've done.

If I repeat myself at times, it's for a few reasons. 1) Repitition is how people learn. 2) People keep bringing the same, tired, defeated arguments against me over and over.

Also, dear, the only "point" you've tried to bring against me is that I "call Colelie justified," which I've made very clear on multiple occasions is a view I do not have.

Yes, I fired on the Moroses in support of the Fleet. No, I am not content with what I did. Yes, I would take the same action if I had that event to do over again because I am loyal to my Republic and my people and I will do what I can to prevent my people's lives from being thrown away. The fact that there were Matari lives aboard those Federation ships is not lost on me, but if I have to choose between try to defend 15 Republic naglfars crewed entirely by Matari or 15 Federation Moroses only partly crewed by Matari, you can be damned sure I will defend the Naglfars.

Now, clearly, I failed to sway the battle in the favor of the Naglfars, and may have even inadvertently caused more lives to be lost that would have been if I had not taken part in the battle. However, that result was not something I could know ahead of time and I could not simply stand there and watch my people die without doing anything to try to help them.

That you apparently could sit there and watch your own people die without doing anything sickens me, Anslo. And, if it sickens you that I would try to help my people win a fight, even if it's one they shouldn't be fighting, so that hopefully fewer of my people die in the process, then so be it. Hate me all you want, but I stand by my convictions, my people, and my loyalties, which is a damn sight more than you do, sitting around bitching at those of us who take action while refusing to take action yourself.

And, the fact that you had no problems at all with my views on these matters, my participation in Colelie, or anything else you've ranted about in regards to me until after I declined your request for a date speaks even more negatively about you, since apparently you can overlook what you consider to be psychopathic instability and genocidal mania so long as you think you might get to bed a pretty girl.
Anslo
Scope Works
#138 - 2013-08-06 19:45:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
You wrote a page worth of crap to justify your previous crap. Woo hoo.

Also, you weren't crazy when you caught my eye. Now you make Noh look sane. Dodged a bullet there huh?

But keep telling yourself you're justified. Grr me loyal matari of farce-like 'convictions' and all that.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Shintoko Akahoshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2013-08-06 22:48:57 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
In my experience, the danger of a Civire chin is less "razor blade" and more "sandpaper."


A little chafing can be a small price to pay for...

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#140 - 2013-08-08 15:29:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Katarina Musana
Anslo wrote:
You wrote a page worth of crap to justify your previous crap. Woo hoo.

Also, you weren't crazy when you caught my eye. Now you make Noh look sane. Dodged a bullet there huh?

But keep telling yourself you're justified. Grr me loyal matari of farce-like 'convictions' and all that.



Mhmm, my loyalties were no different before I "caught your eye," nor were my convictions. Colelie had already happened and I had already voiced my views on that event when I "caught your eye." Nothing about me or what I've said has changed since before I "caught your eye," other than that I have mellowed a bit. I actually spoke more vehemently against the Federation before Colelie happened, which I'm sure Akahoshi will recognize since she has been surprised by my not agreeing with her on the dissolution of the alliance.

I've never claimed to be justified in anything, though, Anslo. I've merely explained how things are and why I do what I do and why I did what I did. Sometimes those reasons lead to doing something that is flat out wrong. These are called mistakes. But that's a risk I take by acting on my beliefs, my convictions, and my loyalties, and it's a risk I'm willing to take in order to work towards trying to make things better for my people. Yes, my people take priority over any other people in the cluster, not because I think they're inherently superior to any other people, but because they're my people.

And, Anslo, you're welcome to try to prove that I'm crazy, but you'll fail just as hard as you failed last time when you linked to a bunch of posts where I was stating the exact opposite of what you claim I said.

I'd also note something I just noticed when looking back at your previous attempts throw around false accusations about me. I hadn't really noticed it befre, but you, yourself, claimed to have had a psychotic breakdown around the time I declined your date request.

Anslo wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3188883#post3188883

You just happened to be inconveniently placed during a wonderful psychotic breakdown from a bunch of other stuff.


Maybe my declining your date didn't cause the psychotic breakdown, but the two things coinciding clearly explain where you developed this irrational and unfounded hatred for me. You are clearly unstable and you need to get some real help before you continue destroying yourself with this irrational, unfounded, and unnecessary hatred. I'm honestly growing concerned for you, Anslo. At first, I did think this was just some childish, hormonal tantrum you were throwing, but now I see how seriously you are in need of psychiatric help. Please get help, Anslo.