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[Odyssey 1.1] Command Ships

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Howling Jinn
Doomheim
#261 - 2013-08-01 18:22:18 UTC
Yes lets boost t1 ships, nerf t2 ships. Because this game is all about newbies.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#262 - 2013-08-01 18:22:25 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Entity wrote:
So, Astarte getting a massive damage nerf?

The damage/rof changes do not offset the 29% reduced damage from losing 2 turrets, and adding 2 completely unbonused launchers isn't that particularly appealing.


It's going from 10.9 effective turrets to 10. However I expect the two utility highs, lower mass and extra resists to more than compensate.



something something leave brittany (my astarte) alone! Not only is it a damage nerf, but the grid is taking a huge hit. I though command ships were getting boosted. Guess I was wrong. Time to sell. Good to know. I guess off grid t3 links are the only viable option.
Witchking Angmar
Perkele.
#263 - 2013-08-01 18:23:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Witchking Angmar
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Entity wrote:
So, Astarte getting a massive damage nerf?

The damage/rof changes do not offset the 29% reduced damage from losing 2 turrets, and adding 2 completely unbonused launchers isn't that particularly appealing.


It's going from 10.9 effective turrets to 10. However I expect the two utility highs, lower mass and extra resists to more than compensate.


10.9375 to 9.375, please stop rounding numbers so biasedly.

EDIT: Nvm, it's 10.9375 to 10.. My bad. D:
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#264 - 2013-08-01 18:25:07 UTC
Witchking Angmar wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Entity wrote:
So, Astarte getting a massive damage nerf?

The damage/rof changes do not offset the 29% reduced damage from losing 2 turrets, and adding 2 completely unbonused launchers isn't that particularly appealing.


It's going from 10.9 effective turrets to 10. However I expect the two utility highs, lower mass and extra resists to more than compensate.


10.9375 to 9.375, please stop rounding numbers so biasedly.


:fozzie:
I'm Down
Perkone
Caldari State
#265 - 2013-08-01 18:25:39 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
Can someone please explain to me how the Nighthawk isn't totally outclassed by the Claymore in every way imaginable.

Claymore has + speed, + drone bay, 2 non damage specific bonuses, + agility, lower mass (nighhawk actually go more massand worse agility WTF?), an extra tank mid slot, better distribution of resistances good for fleet work, a solo boost bonus....... and on and on and on.

Claymore is better on DPS in every way fashonable... and nearly 50% higher dps when not using kinetic on either ship.

Was the Nighthawk not **** before... are you just finding ways for people not to fly it now?



Still waiting for you to collect your thoughts and justify why you're a good dev team who can't even see this one. This is embarrassing.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#266 - 2013-08-01 18:27:29 UTC
glepp wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

That's actually a pretty decent buff to base resists, and it's effectiveness is dependent on what the enemy is shooting. Lasers do EM/Thermal by the way, and Caldari frequently are using Kinetic missiles due to their bonus restrictions. Projectile ammo frequently will be affected as well.

Yes, it's not as high resists across the board and more vulnerable to high alpha in a fleet situation, but hardly an easy target if set up properly. Past that point the 15% boost all active tanking just got isn't anything to sneeze at, especially in an encounter like the 20 man BS fight you gave as an example.

It's a decent buff if the opponent is shooting Multifreq, Phased Plasma or Scourge, yes.
What is the damage distribution on scorch, the most commonly used crystal in a kiting Pulse Oracle? (Answer:36EM/8therm) Any Missile ship shooting kin at a Gallente hull desrves to lose, and it's not very common now. With the changes to Phoons and Ravens, do you really think this large-sigged ship will survive long in a BS fight without ignoring its hull bonus?

In a 20 v 20 BS fight, 2k local reps is worth nothing, since you need to gimp you buffer to fit it. Think paint+webs+large sig+lowish buffer.

Big smile Yes, I'd take any of the CS we are discussing into that. Without the slightest hesitation.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Howling Jinn
Doomheim
#267 - 2013-08-01 18:28:17 UTC
This is so bad.. Literally running to amarr right now trying to get rid of these ships.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#268 - 2013-08-01 18:29:35 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:


It's going from 10.9 effective turrets to 10. However I expect the two utility highs, lower mass and extra resists to more than compensate.



something something leave brittany (my astarte) alone! Not only is it a damage nerf, but the grid is taking a huge hit. I though command ships were getting boosted. Guess I was wrong. Time to sell. Good to know. I guess off grid t3 links are the only viable option.

-2 turrets, and the grid is taking a hit. I ought to, since it has to fit 2 less turrets now. Hell, it's not even losing 2 turrets worth of grid anyways, and it gets 2 utility highs.


Witchking Angmar wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Entity wrote:
So, Astarte getting a massive damage nerf?

The damage/rof changes do not offset the 29% reduced damage from losing 2 turrets, and adding 2 completely unbonused launchers isn't that particularly appealing.


It's going from 10.9 effective turrets to 10. However I expect the two utility highs, lower mass and extra resists to more than compensate.


10.9375 to 9.375, please stop rounding numbers so biasedly.


No, 10.9375 to 10. Math man, learn it.

5*1.5/.75 = 10. Bonuses stack on each other, RoF is done by division due to the interaction, yadda yadda.
Sigras
Conglomo
#269 - 2013-08-01 18:30:34 UTC
I'm Down wrote:
Can someone please explain to me how the Nighthawk isn't totally outclassed by the Claymore in every way imaginable.

Claymore has + speed, + drone bay, 2 non damage specific bonuses, + agility, lower mass (nighhawk actually go more massand worse agility WTF?), an extra tank mid slot, better distribution of resistances good for fleet work, a solo boost bonus....... and on and on and on.

Claymore is better on DPS in every way fashonable... and nearly 50% higher dps when not using kinetic on either ship.

Was the Nighthawk not **** before... are you just finding ways for people not to fly it now?

because when doing its main damage type, the nighthawk had 10 effective launchers while the claymore has 8 effective launchers?

Seriously, how often does damage selection actually matter? its not like people omni-tank or anything . . . Roll

Also, the NH has the resist bonus which is orders of magnitude better than the worse-than-useless local rep bonus

honestly dude, ive never seen you post anything positive on these forums . . . ive come to the conclusion that you just dont like change.
I'm Down
Perkone
Caldari State
#270 - 2013-08-01 18:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: I'm Down
Sigras wrote:
I'm Down wrote:
Can someone please explain to me how the Nighthawk isn't totally outclassed by the Claymore in every way imaginable.

Claymore has + speed, + drone bay, 2 non damage specific bonuses, + agility, lower mass (nighhawk actually go more massand worse agility WTF?), an extra tank mid slot, better distribution of resistances good for fleet work, a solo boost bonus....... and on and on and on.

Claymore is better on DPS in every way fashonable... and nearly 50% higher dps when not using kinetic on either ship.

Was the Nighthawk not **** before... are you just finding ways for people not to fly it now?

because when doing its main damage type, the nighthawk had 10 effective launchers while the claymore has 8 effective launchers?

Seriously, how often does damage selection actually matter? its not like people omni-tank or anything . . . Roll

Also, the NH has the resist bonus which is orders of magnitude better than the worse-than-useless local rep bonus

honestly dude, ive never seen you post anything positive on these forums . . . ive come to the conclusion that you just dont like change.



I've posted plenty of positive when it's deserved. Can't fix bad development choices. Also learn math. claymore is about 8.9 turrets of firepower... plus a larger drone bay.

You also don't seem to understand how the Claymore actually benefits from filling the EM/Thermal holes on shields... which is tons better than the NH 20% resist bonus. Also, the claymore has room for an extra Invul or shield extender if desired due to the extra mid. Not to mention that Active tanking in small gangs dominates. Apparently you've either not fought in anything other than large fleets, or haven't even ever watched an alliance tournament.

You apparently don't even realize that the Nighthawk's resistances really only account for about a 2.5% damage reduction over the claymore from Raw DPS. That 20% bonus has almost 0 meaning in combat compared to the claymores more important resist gap fillers.

Bad PvPer's think damage type doesn't matter... Good PvPer's know exactly how much it does matter.
Thogn
Republic Logistics II
#271 - 2013-08-01 18:35:10 UTC
Good Evening,

is there any timeframe - where we will see this changes take place ?

thx for a reply
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#272 - 2013-08-01 18:35:51 UTC
Thogn wrote:
Good Evening,

is there any timeframe - where we will see this changes take place ?

thx for a reply
Odyssey 1.1 release.

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XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#273 - 2013-08-01 18:41:38 UTC
Quote:
Can't say I like that, from a roleplay / gameplay point of view.


No one cares.
Witchking Angmar
Perkele.
#274 - 2013-08-01 18:44:12 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
No, 10.9375 to 10. Math man, learn it.

5*1.5/.75 = 10. Bonuses stack on each other, RoF is done by division due to the interaction, yadda yadda.


Yeah, edited my post.. Thought it was damage bonus, not ROF at first.
Sol Trader
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#275 - 2013-08-01 18:48:16 UTC
God damn, whatever you do don'/t replace the models. It will be shooting yourself in the foot when you actually want a new t2 bc.

Furthermore, who at ccp has a hard on for the drake hull. First the navy drake, now nighthawk drake? Gross.

And replacing the iconic sleipnir? come the **** on.
Magnus Coleus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#276 - 2013-08-01 18:50:51 UTC
XXSketchxx wrote:
No one cares.


You clearly cared enough to post a reply.

Not enough to read the actual post all the way through, though.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#277 - 2013-08-01 18:51:47 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


Why so serious? Do you wanna know how I got these scars?

Yep, Fozzie, Rise and I never talk to each other regarding ship balancing changes, despite the fact we sit 5 meters apart. And besides, nobody cares about Marauders right? But you are right on one point, derailing the thread is bad, my apologies, I'll stop that now. Bad Ytterbium, bad.


5 meters!?! No wonder the ship balancing is all over the place. The optimal range for a Frenchman is 1.13 m with a falloff of 3.13 m. You are balancing well into falloff. This explains a lot. Rise must be sitting the farthest away.
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#278 - 2013-08-01 18:51:53 UTC
Grarr Dexx wrote:
Witchking Angmar wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Entity wrote:
So, Astarte getting a massive damage nerf?

The damage/rof changes do not offset the 29% reduced damage from losing 2 turrets, and adding 2 completely unbonused launchers isn't that particularly appealing.


It's going from 10.9 effective turrets to 10. However I expect the two utility highs, lower mass and extra resists to more than compensate.


10.9375 to 9.375, please stop rounding numbers so biasedly.


:fozzie:


:grarr:

No sig.
glepp
New Caldari Bureau of Investigation
#279 - 2013-08-01 18:52:49 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
glepp wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

That's actually a pretty decent buff to base resists, and it's effectiveness is dependent on what the enemy is shooting. Lasers do EM/Thermal by the way, and Caldari frequently are using Kinetic missiles due to their bonus restrictions. Projectile ammo frequently will be affected as well.

Yes, it's not as high resists across the board and more vulnerable to high alpha in a fleet situation, but hardly an easy target if set up properly. Past that point the 15% boost all active tanking just got isn't anything to sneeze at, especially in an encounter like the 20 man BS fight you gave as an example.

It's a decent buff if the opponent is shooting Multifreq, Phased Plasma or Scourge, yes.
What is the damage distribution on scorch, the most commonly used crystal in a kiting Pulse Oracle? (Answer:36EM/8therm) Any Missile ship shooting kin at a Gallente hull desrves to lose, and it's not very common now. With the changes to Phoons and Ravens, do you really think this large-sigged ship will survive long in a BS fight without ignoring its hull bonus?

In a 20 v 20 BS fight, 2k local reps is worth nothing, since you need to gimp you buffer to fit it. Think paint+webs+large sig+lowish buffer.

Big smile Yes, I'd take any of the CS we are discussing into that. Without the slightest hesitation.

With local reps on your Astarte?
XXSketchxx
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#280 - 2013-08-01 18:58:27 UTC
So the nighthawk is still shit.

The cerb is still shit.

What do you guys have against caldari missile boats?