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Bloody Hands on Atlanins

Author
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#101 - 2013-07-30 17:51:25 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
tl;dr: We're special.


Says someone from an Empire that believes themselves to be the Chosen of "God."


While I will readily admit that the Empire has prejudice issues, we've never claimed that it is impossible to become one of us. On the contrary, we encourage it. Historically we do take a rather long view as to what that entails, but as 100% Khanid, I'm a clear example of that fact.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#102 - 2013-07-30 17:54:07 UTC
Anja Suorsa wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


You find this so funny because of how often you get mistaken for being a man, don' t you, kirjuun?

I assumed Msr Mercault was ethnic Matari from within the Federation, given his views.


Oh, ho ho! He has bite! Alas, if I were to ever stray from the corner where I dwell, I daresay people would not mistake me for such. That you have been mistaken publicly for a woman is, however, delicious on so many levels, suuolo. I can list them, if you like.

Blink


You take far too much pleasure from dubious sources, kirjuun.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Dobie Mercault
Special Admirer Philosophy Club
#103 - 2013-07-30 18:11:22 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Dobie Mercault wrote:
They hardly need to be called a "fledgling nation" either, by what I'm sure are well-meaning Caldari observers, heh! Are these the same observers that write the history books that state the Republic once posses a level of mechanical excellence never before seen or since, or whatever the line is? Being blapped by a 1400mm round should be mandatory for any "historian" wanting to write about Matari mechanical engineering.


When you can build a decent reactor or any sort of E-War equipment worthy of the name, then come back crowing about your technological supremacy. It should be abundantly clear that the Matari never had the level of technological sophistication you claim - certainly not in a cluster with Jovians and Sleepers.


What a rather brilliant reply. No really. You've conflated mechanics with electronics like a professional politician! What I'm left wondering is if you're just plain ignorant of what the E in E-War stands for, or know full well, and that's why you opted for the shortened version. If it's the latter, then I have to admit that was some neat sleight-of-hand.

Maybe it's not quite so cynical and Dobie is just being a bore again, I hear some of you thinking. It's not a distinction you care to draw, and this is just semantics. Well, think about a starbase in reinforced. The computers and electronics are off (including your E-War batteries) but the mechanics, the arty batteries, they're still good to go until the last round. That's the difference neatly illustrated.

As for you Ms. Akahoshi, since it seems every argument against you is some kind of ad posthominem (eh? see what I did there?) I'm going to have to think a bit on any further replies. The good news is that I have plenty of free time to do so, in between my Metaphysics classes at the UoC. Blink xox
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#104 - 2013-07-30 18:20:52 UTC
Today I learn that reactors are nothing to do with engineering.

Ah, the benefits of a liberal university education...

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Shintoko Akahoshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2013-07-30 19:24:28 UTC
Dobie Mercault wrote:
As for you Ms. Akahoshi, since it seems every argument against you is some kind of ad posthominem (eh? see what I did there?) I'm going to have to think a bit on any further replies. The good news is that I have plenty of free time to do so, in between my Metaphysics classes at the UoC. Blink xox


It's been such a long time since I've had a special admirer. I can't begin to express how delighted I am with you.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Steffanie Saissore
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#106 - 2013-07-30 19:38:12 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Today I learn that reactors are nothing to do with engineering.

Ah, the benefits of a liberal university education...


I believe he completely missed the fact that you started the statement with reactors.

We travel in the dark of the new moon,

A starry highway traced on the map of the sky

Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#107 - 2013-07-31 03:51:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Katarina Musana wrote:
Amusing, considering that we'd been living in a golden age of peace for a very long time before the Amarr Empire arrived and destroyed that peace and proceeded to do everything in their power to turn us into a hate-filled, violent people.


HAHAHA wow you really don't know your own history at all, do you? Not surprising - anything that doesn't aggrandize yourselves certainly gets edited until it fits the Shakor doctrine of Matari supremacy. Yes, go on believing that all the tribes just sat around the desert holding hands and singing songs of friendship with each other across the hundred plus worlds that they all settled entirely under their own power before the big bad Amarr came in and enslaved them, up until they rebelled with such perfect elan that it actually cost the Amarr victory in their war against the Jovians. And every time Shakor farts a rainbow comes flying out, too.


Katarina Musana wrote:
The Amarr have never understood us, and it seems likely they never will.


Find an excuse to kill everyone in the galaxy that doesn't meet your standards of genetic perfection (read: tribal blood purity), then move in and take their land. Not so hard after all, actually.


Katarina Musana wrote:
They are no more Gallente than a Gallentean who has Republic citizenship is Matari. They are Federation Citizens, but they are not Gallente. They are Matari.


And it's exactly that sort of thinking that drives so many to leave. You know how to spot a smart Matari? By the fact that they're no longer loyal to or living in the Republic. You can spot them because they don't give a roe's arse about the purity of their bloodlines or crap that happened anywhere from three to a dozen centuries ago. They are instead living in the present, living for themselves and living for something other than being fuel the Republic's war machine.

Go on, scream "Race Traitors!" - you know you want to.


Katarina Musana wrote:
Being Matari and being a citizen of the Republic have nothing to do with each other, though for many of us they go hand-in-hand.


Oh but here is where you're wrong, or right, depending on how you look at it. You're right that to the Republic being Matari means being the private property of the Republic, ready to be reclaimed at any time they need more conscripts - and yes I chose those words intentionally.

The problem is that Matari outside the Republic don't feel the same. Do you want to know how many Matari died at the hands of other Matari during the Jarizza attack? The countless numbers of Matari who died defending their homes & families from Matari invaders?

And the sickest part about that was this: That those who perished for their loyalty were branded as "traitors" by the Republic, because in Shakor's oh so very blind eyes loyalty to him takes precedence over all other loyalties - be they to God, home or family. Move over, Heth.

In the Republic, being Matari means everything. Outside the Republic? Not so much. Other things take priority - things like home, family, and sometimes even loyalty the nation that you actually live in - something which the Republic can't seem to get through their thick heads.

We're not all genocidal monsters flying Shakor banners while fanatically carrying out the Republic's not-so-thinly-veiled human eugenics program, and that's something the Republic is just going to have to accept one day. Until they do, however, it's going to be Matari on Matari blood until the Republic acknowledges our freedom to choose to be who and what we want.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Shintoko Akahoshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2013-07-31 06:46:42 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
Dobie Mercault wrote:
As for you Ms. Akahoshi, since it seems every argument against you is some kind of ad posthominem (eh? see what I did there?) I'm going to have to think a bit on any further replies. The good news is that I have plenty of free time to do so, in between my Metaphysics classes at the UoC. Blink xox


It's been such a long time since I've had a special admirer. I can't begin to express how delighted I am with you.


P.S., I got your note and your gift. I'm really starting to like you!

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#109 - 2013-07-31 07:28:17 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
And the sickest part about that was this: That those who perished for their loyalty were branded as "traitors" by the Republic, because in Shakor's oh so very blind eyes loyalty to him takes precedence over all other loyalties - be they to God, home or family. Move over, Heth.


Nice to know I'm not the only one to draw that parallel. Shakor's just quieter.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#110 - 2013-07-31 09:07:02 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
And the sickest part about that was this: That those who perished for their loyalty were branded as "traitors" by the Republic, because in Shakor's oh so very blind eyes loyalty to him takes precedence over all other loyalties - be they to God, home or family. Move over, Heth.


Nice to know I'm not the only one to draw that parallel. Shakor's just quieter.


Also, still in power. Troubling, ne?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#111 - 2013-07-31 11:23:01 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Don't waste your time, Kat. This isn't a discussion thread, it's an exercise in mental "self-satisfaction" and Matari bashing. The way to win is simply not to play when the game is rigged against you.


The IGS has been something besides this for the past year or so now?

Huh.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#112 - 2013-07-31 12:46:01 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
And the sickest part about that was this: That those who perished for their loyalty were branded as "traitors" by the Republic, because in Shakor's oh so very blind eyes loyalty to him takes precedence over all other loyalties - be they to God, home or family. Move over, Heth.


Nice to know I'm not the only one to draw that parallel. Shakor's just quieter.


Also, still in power. Troubling, ne?

It only took five years to get rid of Heth. Maybe if we give it another twenty years, Shakor will get kicked out to the curb in the same way.

Ava Starfire wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Don't waste your time, Kat. This isn't a discussion thread, it's an exercise in mental "self-satisfaction" and Matari bashing. The way to win is simply not to play when the game is rigged against you.


The IGS has been something besides this for the past year or so now?

Huh.

As much as I've tried to be more civil and polite to Katarina, I'm not going to shy away from observing that it's still quite obvious that even when she is able to admit to herself that she's wasting her time, she still struggles with resisting the temptation to continue wasting her time.

No comment on "mental self-satisfaction", aside from that everyone posting on the IGS partakes in that equally.

As for "Matari bashing", no. You might get that from certain quarters, but from a lot of people what you're seeing is Shakor(ite) bashing. That people have trouble seeing the difference just highlights the very serious problem with Shakor's regime more than ever.

Because oddly enough, all of these incidents, the common thread is a blind, bitter, warmongering old man who thinks he can see. I don't know what he thinks he sees exactly, but whatever it is it sure as **** isn't doing the Republic or its people any good.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#113 - 2013-07-31 12:48:33 UTC
I desire very much for Shakor to assume room temperature. That is quite common knowledge, and has been for years.

I doubt most of the talking heads here will care. They see a bandwagon, it must be boarded.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Ragnar STS
Arcane Odyssey
Electus Matari
#114 - 2013-08-01 01:43:24 UTC
A capsuleer's rights rest in three boxes. The ballot box, jury box, and the ammo box. They should be used in that order.

Let no man be kept from the CSM voting booth because of his race. Let no woman be kept from the ballot box because of her sex. If that not be enough, then:

Let no thought or action be unjudged or undefended fairly in the IGS. If that not be enough then:

Do not keep capsuleers from exercising their right to use the ammo box.
Shintoko Akahoshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2013-08-01 15:08:24 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
I desire very much for Shakor to assume room temperature. That is quite common knowledge, and has been for years.


Honestly, Starfire, if I were Shakor, I wouldn't see any reason to change.

The Federation has (so far) tolerated his behavior. CONCORD has tolerated his behavior. And despite your desires, Electus Matari not only tolerates his behavior, but you support it to the extent of pulling the trigger on allies when he says "shoot". Perhaps there's a dissenting voice trying to tell him to calm down, but I'm certainly not aware of it.

My impression is that things are getting pretty out of control in the Republic. That a lot of you are looking around and wondering what the hell happened. That's a pretty bad place to be, and I sympathize.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Nick Bete
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-08-01 16:05:18 UTC
So much condescension and so many crocodile tears coming from the usual suspects. Good to see that the IGS remains predictable.
Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#117 - 2013-08-01 21:38:33 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
My impression is that things are getting pretty out of control in the Republic. That a lot of you are looking around and wondering what the hell happened. That's a pretty bad place to be, and I sympathize.


Hardly. Things were out of control back when Midular was struggling to run the government and getting no-where. The Elder's purge of proven traitors largely cleared house and allowed for the Republic to begin getting back on its feet. It was always going to be a slow process but now that the Tribal has been formally convened we are seeing clear signs of progress.

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.  Join channel JORIS to learn more!

Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#118 - 2013-08-01 21:46:38 UTC
Ugleb wrote:
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
My impression is that things are getting pretty out of control in the Republic. That a lot of you are looking around and wondering what the hell happened. That's a pretty bad place to be, and I sympathize.


Hardly. Things were out of control back when Midular was struggling to run the government and getting no-where. The Elder's purge of proven traitors largely cleared house and allowed for the Republic to begin getting back on its feet. It was always going to be a slow process but now that the Tribal has been formally convened we are seeing clear signs of progress.


If by 'progress' you mean 'making enemies everywhere', then yes, you're making great progress. Good job, keep it up.

God, it's enough to make me think that perhaps a new reclaiming is a good idea after all.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#119 - 2013-08-01 22:11:41 UTC
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
While I will readily admit that the Empire has prejudice issues, we've never claimed that it is impossible to become one of us. On the contrary, we encourage it. Historically we do take a rather long view as to what that entails, but as 100% Khanid, I'm a clear example of that fact.


"encourage"? I think you don't know what the term means. Invading and enslaving people to force them to become "one of you" is not encouraging.

Morwen Lagaan wrote:
As for "Matari bashing", no. You might get that from certain quarters, but from a lot of people what you're seeing is Shakor(ite) bashing.



There's also the problem that so many immediately call any Matari they disagree with, on anything, a Shakorite, and there's very little distinction made between "shakor" bashing and "matari bashing," as people tend to just say "Minmatar" and only bring out the Shakor reference when they start calling us Shakorites.



Quote:
As much as I've tried to be more civil and polite to Katarina, I'm not going to shy away from observing that it's still quite obvious that even when she is able to admit to herself that she's wasting her time, she still struggles with resisting the temptation to continue wasting her time.


I'm honestly undecided as to whether the IGS is a waste of my time or not. Considering that it's easy enough for me to submit posts here while doing other things so that it's not really taking away from my time spent on other activities and the fact that there may be someone who learns something of value from these discussions . . .

There are a few people whom I do consider a waste of time to respond to, and I don't actually respond to them, such as Katran Luftschreck and that disgusting Fred fellow.

Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
you support it to the extent of pulling the trigger on allies when he says "shoot".


We didn't fight simply because Shakor told us to. We fought because a battle broke out between our side and an opposing side, and it was our duty to assist our side in the battle. This is not something that sits easy. Had we not joined the fight, perhaps the Republic Fleet would have lost with fewer ships downed on the Federation side and thus fewer lives lost in total, but the only real option available to us was to try and help our side to win in the hopes that fewer of our Fleet's lives would be lost.

It wasn't just people on our side who came hoping to see things resolved peacefully and then firing on an ally when the fighting broke out. There were plenty of capsuleers assisting the Federation Navy in that battle, firing on their allies, the Minmatar Republic.

And we did not join the fray until after both fleets were fully engaged in the battle.

Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
If by 'progress' you mean 'making enemies everywhere', then yes, you're making great progress.


I love how you attempt to discount the presence of progress being made by trying to put words in his mouth as to what that progress is.

And, whether or not Shakor should be a continued part of the progress we are making is another matter, one I choose not to comment on directly.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#120 - 2013-08-01 22:53:22 UTC
"Our side" and "their side" doesn't really exist when you're engaging in hostile fire against your allies on their territory in an illegal attack.

If anything what you consider to be "our side" was undertaking an action that would weaken the alliance that the Republic needs to keep the Amarrian Empire at bay, if anything what you consider to be "our side" was working against the best interests of the Republic, and really wasn't "your side" at all.


Unless of course, "your side" isn't really interested in the well being of the Matari people, the future of the Republic and finding a peaceful resolution to outstanding conflicts that merely weaken the Empires and detract from engaging outside entities that would gladly see us all burn.

That said, you're doing a great job ensuring that yourselves without their hand in matters.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.