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Tidi is gamebreaking for the smaller side

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#161 - 2013-07-31 20:07:29 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Verunae Caseti wrote:


"Waiting around for the results" (something that takes nanoseconds) negates the benefit of billions of additional cycles every second?



Yes because all those cycle go to waste because they need data coming of the preceding function being executed on the other core. An EVE node would probably benefit much more from a clock speed increase to memory and CPU than it would from adding additionnal CPU.

More CPU would still ahve somebenefit at soem point tho. If CCP was able to have a dedicated core + some addressed memory for the execution of that core only as a single node, it would potentially be able to run more node on thier own dedicated CPU thus reducing the spread of TiDi when it hit a system that was not reinforced. The problem is that cost money and the benefit is small. Random large battle don't happen that often. We don't have Asakai happening every week even so building your system to sustain such things is mostly seen as a waste of ressources.



What would be your opinion on tidi having an impact on the decision to engage in those large fights that the outcome is less insured than normal?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#162 - 2013-07-31 20:09:36 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Verunae Caseti wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

You can only run one system on a CPU because the order that the computations is done matters and the overhead from talking to other CPUs, waiting around for the results, and putting those results in the right order would negate any gains.

It has nothing to do with Python and everything to do with running a complex real-time simulation.


Yeah, which is why multicore processors are so much slower than single cores, right?

I mean, seriously? What motivates people to post with authority on subjects about which they are so clearly uneducated?

"Waiting around for the results" (something that takes nanoseconds) negates the benefit of billions of additional cycles every second?

OP wrote:
Time dilation is gamebreaking for the smaller side, simply because it gives the bigger side 10x the time to ping and get people online.


Also giving the smaller side 10x the time to get people online and even up the odds, or gain the advantage. So it benefits both sides equally.

/thread



Until you hit server cap that is. If you can not get more than 2,000 pilots into a system because a system with a 200 force got hotdropped and escalated into server cap situation, it isn't going to matter.

You can have 5,000 pilots at your disposal, or be ready to be available in an hour, and it won't make a lick of difference when they cannot enter the system. TiDi at that point definitely helps the larger force due to sheer brute strength.


Since everybody know those system will choke, just for up earlyer and jump in. Just like the CFC did in 6VDT. Hours ahead of the timer IIRC.



Timers don't get affected by TiDi which is a fun dynamic.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#163 - 2013-07-31 20:13:26 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:


What would be your opinion on tidi having an impact on the decision to engage in those large fights that the outcome is less insured than normal?


Take the risk of engaging or don't take it. TiDi or not, the choice is there. It's a variable that has to be taken into account pretty much anytime caps are fielded not it seems because escalation can come out of nowhere really fast. If you don't risk it and stand down, you will enver get ****** over by TiDi. If you engage, you might get beaten by a group than handle the new variable better than you do.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#164 - 2013-07-31 20:16:03 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:



Timers don't get affected by TiDi which is a fun dynamic.


Wich is also already well known. TEST should of formed more ahead of time if they wanted to be sure they would all be in the system for the fight. Something wich the CFC actaully did. Maybe TEST could not muster it's force in time but thats not TiDi's fault nor anyone else but TEST itself. If they did, we might be seeing CFC pilots bitching about how TiDi blocked them from entering but I would have the same point, if you know there will be TiDi, plan for it.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2013-07-31 20:21:26 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


What would be your opinion on tidi having an impact on the decision to engage in those large fights that the outcome is less insured than normal?


Take the risk of engaging or don't take it. TiDi or not, the choice is there. It's a variable that has to be taken into account pretty much anytime caps are fielded not it seems because escalation can come out of nowhere really fast. If you don't risk it and stand down, you will enver get ****** over by TiDi. If you engage, you might get beaten by a group than handle the new variable better than you do.



What I mean is... Asakai would most likely happen every week if Tidi wasn't so prevalent.

I mean, we've been having escalations and caps and supers and such every day.

If tidi was not such a scary beast I'm sure we'd have much larger fights more often to push that envelope.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#166 - 2013-07-31 20:24:28 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


What would be your opinion on tidi having an impact on the decision to engage in those large fights that the outcome is less insured than normal?


Take the risk of engaging or don't take it. TiDi or not, the choice is there. It's a variable that has to be taken into account pretty much anytime caps are fielded not it seems because escalation can come out of nowhere really fast. If you don't risk it and stand down, you will enver get ****** over by TiDi. If you engage, you might get beaten by a group than handle the new variable better than you do.



What I mean is... Asakai would most likely happen every week if Tidi wasn't so prevalent.

I mean, we've been having escalations and caps and supers and such every day.

If tidi was not such a scary beast I'm sure we'd have much larger fights more often to push that envelope.


No because no how much people want to belive 0.0 alliance are THAT spacerich, they can't replace blown-up cap/supercap at that rate. There would also be less time for the escalation to happen because you have to form up and setup a cyno chain. That still takes time even if the trapped titan is under TiDi.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2013-07-31 20:33:31 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


What would be your opinion on tidi having an impact on the decision to engage in those large fights that the outcome is less insured than normal?


Take the risk of engaging or don't take it. TiDi or not, the choice is there. It's a variable that has to be taken into account pretty much anytime caps are fielded not it seems because escalation can come out of nowhere really fast. If you don't risk it and stand down, you will enver get ****** over by TiDi. If you engage, you might get beaten by a group than handle the new variable better than you do.



What I mean is... Asakai would most likely happen every week if Tidi wasn't so prevalent.

I mean, we've been having escalations and caps and supers and such every day.

If tidi was not such a scary beast I'm sure we'd have much larger fights more often to push that envelope.


Asakai wouldn't have happened at all. It would have been over before the test of new Eden could have gotten there.

Or there node would have crashed..
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#168 - 2013-07-31 20:36:19 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


What would be your opinion on tidi having an impact on the decision to engage in those large fights that the outcome is less insured than normal?


Take the risk of engaging or don't take it. TiDi or not, the choice is there. It's a variable that has to be taken into account pretty much anytime caps are fielded not it seems because escalation can come out of nowhere really fast. If you don't risk it and stand down, you will enver get ****** over by TiDi. If you engage, you might get beaten by a group than handle the new variable better than you do.



What I mean is... Asakai would most likely happen every week if Tidi wasn't so prevalent.

I mean, we've been having escalations and caps and supers and such every day.

If tidi was not such a scary beast I'm sure we'd have much larger fights more often to push that envelope.


No because no how much people want to belive 0.0 alliance are THAT spacerich, they can't replace blown-up cap/supercap at that rate. There would also be less time for the escalation to happen because you have to form up and setup a cyno chain. That still takes time even if the trapped titan is under TiDi.



Doesn't always have to be titans, and you'd be surprised how often dreads and other caps get fielded on pos grinds that go awry =P (or failed cap hotdrops).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2013-07-31 20:43:07 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:


What would be your opinion on tidi having an impact on the decision to engage in those large fights that the outcome is less insured than normal?


Take the risk of engaging or don't take it. TiDi or not, the choice is there. It's a variable that has to be taken into account pretty much anytime caps are fielded not it seems because escalation can come out of nowhere really fast. If you don't risk it and stand down, you will enver get ****** over by TiDi. If you engage, you might get beaten by a group than handle the new variable better than you do.



What I mean is... Asakai would most likely happen every week if Tidi wasn't so prevalent.

I mean, we've been having escalations and caps and supers and such every day.

If tidi was not such a scary beast I'm sure we'd have much larger fights more often to push that envelope.


Asakai wouldn't have happened at all. It would have been over before the test of new Eden could have gotten there.

Or there node would have crashed..



That's a lot of faith you're putting in a certain titan pilot.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#170 - 2013-07-31 21:13:30 UTC
excellent bit of fiction there

tidi isn't the reason you failed to gank that titan though

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#171 - 2013-07-31 21:56:23 UTC
Onictus wrote:


Asakai wouldn't have happened at all. It would have been over before the test of new Eden could have gotten there.

Or there node would have crashed..



Think of it this way... you have X amount of capitals, supers, titans, etc and you know you do not want to structure grind, you know you also do not want to commit that behemoth because it would take 20 minutes to get the ship to even do anything, let alone get a result.

So, take the tidi meta out of the picture, take sov grinding out of the picture (since you don't want to structure grind anyways...) what else would you want to use the ship for? Ratting? Oh joy there.

Now, pretend for a moment tidi was not an element... would you want to escalate into a super fight?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2013-07-31 23:12:19 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Onictus wrote:


Asakai wouldn't have happened at all. It would have been over before the test of new Eden could have gotten there.

Or there node would have crashed..



Think of it this way... you have X amount of capitals, supers, titans, etc and you know you do not want to structure grind, you know you also do not want to commit that behemoth because it would take 20 minutes to get the ship to even do anything, let alone get a result.

So, take the tidi meta out of the picture, take sov grinding out of the picture (since you don't want to structure grind anyways...) what else would you want to use the ship for? Ratting? Oh joy there.

Now, pretend for a moment tidi was not an element... would you want to escalate into a super fight?



What are you blabbering about.

TiDi enable Asakia to happen. Remember that was supposed to be a hot drop, on an unreinforced node. It would have come down to the who got in first. Likely the CFC savior fleet would have crashed the node, or Boat would have been dead before they could have gotten there.

You DAMN sure wouldn't have had people making it from scalding pass on the complete opposite end of the map making it there in time. That is for certain.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#173 - 2013-08-01 00:02:15 UTC
Nerf power projection

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#174 - 2013-08-01 00:06:04 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nerf power projection


That would technically make more sense but at the end of the day, it's much more damaging to the small entity who can't have people everywhere as it is to the large one who can anyway. But people don't see it that way. They see the CFC saving a tital by using power projection and all go OOOPPP!!!!!!!!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#175 - 2013-08-01 00:08:24 UTC
Nerf having players help one another. Or having a group of players helping one another that is greater than another group of players helping one another.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#176 - 2013-08-01 00:16:53 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tidi works against the larger side too.

- Their titan gets tackled
- Pings go out
- They all start undocking from the same station causing 10% tidi in their system but not in the system where the titan is being killed
- Titan is killed before anyone is able to load grid after undocking, much less join fleet and travel to where it is and save it.


That's not an example of TiDi working against either side. Since bother are under the affects of TiDi, there is no advantage, and the more prepared, aggressive side wins the engagement.

No. Try reading it again.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#177 - 2013-08-01 00:29:07 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nerf having players help one another. Or having a group of players helping one another that is greater than another group of players helping one another.


Player interaction beside shooting each toher should be a abnnable offense. So is just staring at each others. I eman if you see each toehr, why aren't you shooting? You are obviously abusing the game mecaninc of not shooting automatically to help him out not get killed.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#178 - 2013-08-01 01:05:18 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nerf power projection


That would technically make more sense but at the end of the day, it's much more damaging to the small entity who can't have people everywhere as it is to the large one who can anyway. But people don't see it that way. They see the CFC saving a tital by using power projection and all go OOOPPP!!!!!!!!


yeah "undock, warp to fleet member" was how our OP power projection ability saved the day

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#179 - 2013-08-01 01:07:36 UTC
Andski wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nerf power projection


That would technically make more sense but at the end of the day, it's much more damaging to the small entity who can't have people everywhere as it is to the large one who can anyway. But people don't see it that way. They see the CFC saving a tital by using power projection and all go OOOPPP!!!!!!!!


yeah "undock, warp to fleet member" was how our OP power projection ability saved the day


Wasn't the station bubbled so you jumped out of system and then abck in? At least I read something about this maneuver being done. Could be a lot of spin...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#180 - 2013-08-01 01:11:49 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Andski wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nerf power projection


That would technically make more sense but at the end of the day, it's much more damaging to the small entity who can't have people everywhere as it is to the large one who can anyway. But people don't see it that way. They see the CFC saving a tital by using power projection and all go OOOPPP!!!!!!!!


yeah "undock, warp to fleet member" was how our OP power projection ability saved the day


Wasn't the station bubbled so you jumped out of system and then abck in?

Might want to think a bit more about what you just said.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)