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Using targeted TIDI to defeat blob warfare
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SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-07-30 20:15:05 UTC
1. Use TIDI. In a given system once a number of alliance members has been met (say 500), system-wide TIDI is automatically forced upon those 500. Even in ideal server conditions their operations are forced to be slower.

This will favour the smaller force, who will suffer less or no TIDI in comparison with the bigger fleet. Their guns cycle faster, they rep faster, move and kill faster. This gives a smaller fleet the potential to even the odds and overcome a much larger force.

Once the odds are more even (as the blob size is reduced), the two forces experience the same level of TIDI (or none), and it is now a battle of skill, not a battle of blob.



Now, there are still issues with this. Each side will seek a way to give themselves an advantage over this system to experience less TIDI. If this system is governed over who is an alliance member alone, you will start to see fleets of neutral or non-aligned alts. So not only should 'alliances' be a key factor for whom gets the TIDI, but also who is fleeted with said alliance, and who is in a local fleet in general.

In a worse case scenario you could have hundreds of small group fleets in the same system, consisting of non-aligned alts. But at least in this case, it would be a serious ***** to figure out who to shoot at and who not to shoot at since the majority of everyone in local is going to appear neutral.


Just thought I'd add some thoughts to one of Eve's constant banes.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#2 - 2013-07-30 20:40:55 UTC
This rates pretty far into the gamey and stupid side of things. And it just means marking 10 more groups blue, and if blues also count people will use red for friendlies and blue for targets.
Ryelek d'Entari
Horizon Glare
#3 - 2013-07-30 21:05:37 UTC
You can't have pilots with different levels of tidi in the same system. The whole server node is slowed down. It is not a client-side effect.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-07-30 21:25:37 UTC
If a smaller group of players wants to beat a larger group or players they need to either be much better or they need to have much better fit ships. Giving artificial advantages to one group over another is contradictory to the sandbox and/or emergent gameplay nature of the game.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-07-30 21:27:14 UTC
The whole point of the exercise IS to make TIDI a client-side effect (regardless of whether or not the node is struggling). One that takes into consideration who's allied, who's fleeted, and who has blued who, etc.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-07-30 21:34:33 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
The whole point of the exercise IS to make TIDI a client-side effect (regardless of whether or not the node is struggling). One that takes into consideration who's allied, who's fleeted, and who has blued who, etc.


And what you're suggesting changes the focus of PvP from the newbie friendly "every ship counts" paradigm to a "every applicable skill at 5 or gtfo" paradigm.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-07-31 05:27:07 UTC
Kinda surprised a Black Legion. member is the one posting this. I thought you guys thrived in taking on larger fleets?

This is a bad idea. Players in Eve have choices. Those choices land them in the various aspects of Eve: High sec, low sec, null sec, large corp, small corp, NBSI, industrial, etc. and so forth. Those same choices allow them to change where they are. If you don't like being in the smaller fleet, apply to the larger one. Seeking a hand out of 'free ti-di' is...... well.... silly.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-07-31 06:00:24 UTC
5/10.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-07-31 06:12:19 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
In a worse case scenario you could have hundreds of small group fleets in the same system, consisting of non-aligned alts. But at least in this case, it would be a serious ***** to figure out who to shoot at and who not to shoot at since the majority of everyone in local is going to appear neutral.



please forgive in advance if you are color blind and never saw this but....you do know alliance diplo's have lots of colors to choose from to assign corps, right? There are in point of fact several shades of "blue". And not all are THE blue that means in the club.

One time in 0.0 we evicted the prior owners. Well the alliance imploded and it was more mop up ops as the member corps where basically left to fend for themselves. So one corp jsut wanting to move out of the mess and not be shot up to hell and back in the process talked to our alliance diplo's. We pay xyz isk, you give us 1 week no kill status to get our people out...deal? Isk taken, alliance diplo's set a very very very faint shade of blue for them and they moved out not being shot at by us. Not all "blue" means allianced up.


Not in our alliance so not "true" blue. Not a red and not a neut. There are lots of color games to make this work the tl;dr.
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#10 - 2013-07-31 06:55:42 UTC
Why blob is bad?

Blob doesnt determine superiority. Only pvp skill do it.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-07-31 07:00:46 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
The whole point of the exercise IS to make TIDI a client-side effect (regardless of whether or not the node is struggling). One that takes into consideration who's allied, who's fleeted, and who has blued who, etc.


And what you're suggesting changes the focus of PvP from the newbie friendly "every ship counts" paradigm to a "every applicable skill at 5 or gtfo" paradigm.

This.

Also a client-side effect means that people can, and will, hack the client to disable it.

Finally, what about AWOXers ?
Now all they need to do to screw over their corp is be in the same system during a large fight, forcing their corp to have more TiDi than normal.

TiDi should never be used as a balancing tool. It's use should be limited to what it does now: Keeping Eve running smoothly when the server hardware can't handle the action at full speed.
Sigras
Conglomo
#12 - 2013-07-31 07:07:19 UTC
This has got to be one of the worst ideas ever . . . not only would it open you up to massive amounts of client side hacking, not only is it massively unfair, not only is it massively tampering with the open ended gameplay that makes Eve, eve, but there is no reliable mechanic to determine who is allied to who

If you use alliance, people will just make a series of alt alliances
if you use standings, whose standing do you use? and whats to keep people from using red for their allies and blue for their enemies?

bad idea is bad
Bloody Wench
#13 - 2013-07-31 08:12:50 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:


Also a client-side effect means that people can, and will, hack the client to disable it.



^^^^

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-07-31 13:27:51 UTC
Vizvig wrote:
Why blob is bad?

Blob doesnt determine superiority. Only pvp skill do it.



Blob is not that bad. What sucks is waiting a few hours for your guns to cycle.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#15 - 2013-07-31 14:04:49 UTC
Are you suggesting an actual in-game implementation of "Lag Beast"? Sigras nailed this one.

I'm right behind you
stoicfaux
#16 - 2013-07-31 14:06:00 UTC
Why punish the people who are organized enough to bring more ships? i.e. why penalize success?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Doddy
Excidium.
#17 - 2013-07-31 14:10:51 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
1. Use TIDI. In a given system once a number of alliance members has been met (say 500), system-wide TIDI is automatically forced upon those 500. Even in ideal server conditions their operations are forced to be slower.

This will favour the smaller force, who will suffer less or no TIDI in comparison with the bigger fleet. Their guns cycle faster, they rep faster, move and kill faster. This gives a smaller fleet the potential to even the odds and overcome a much larger force.

Once the odds are more even (as the blob size is reduced), the two forces experience the same level of TIDI (or none), and it is now a battle of skill, not a battle of blob.



Now, there are still issues with this. Each side will seek a way to give themselves an advantage over this system to experience less TIDI. If this system is governed over who is an alliance member alone, you will start to see fleets of neutral or non-aligned alts. So not only should 'alliances' be a key factor for whom gets the TIDI, but also who is fleeted with said alliance, and who is in a local fleet in general.

In a worse case scenario you could have hundreds of small group fleets in the same system, consisting of non-aligned alts. But at least in this case, it would be a serious ***** to figure out who to shoot at and who not to shoot at since the majority of everyone in local is going to appear neutral.


Just thought I'd add some thoughts to one of Eve's constant banes.


You do realise that tidi slows the server down and to have it effect different people on the same node differently would require a completely different method and is probably impossible.

Anyway why should less people have an advantage over more? It makes no sense at all and is dumb on every level.