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titans
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Rob Otokhan
Asteroid Farm Unlimited
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2013-07-31 03:10:32 UTC
Ok, titans can't doomsday in low sec, hics and dics can't bubble in low sec, I think it kinda makes sense that you should t be allowed to titan bridge into low sec either. Don't get me wrong, I love hotdropping lowsec dwellers, hut it seems unbalanced.

Here is why. Titan bridges allow an entire nullsec coalition and the wealth and power they have therein, to bear down on the supposed "middle game" are of low sec. Low sec is a place that is supposed to have some of nullsec mechanics, with some of.highsec consequences. You can't bring bubbles and jump bridges on towers, can't doomsday, these are all to "protect" small groups that want to hold some power in lowsec, and not have nullsec power houses to deal with.

I think, if you're a big coalition, you don't need to bring the I win button to low sec. Just like doomsdays blapsed lowsec carriers unfairly, titan bridge is on same level. It's not supposed to be nullsec. You can jump your titans and supers in, but not bridge.

But black op bridge is still good.

Flame on!!
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#2 - 2013-07-31 03:15:37 UTC
Apart from making titans even more useless I'm ok with this. Besides titans are no longer much of a luxury anyway.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#3 - 2013-07-31 04:39:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
A Titan's ability to DD has nothing to do with a hic or dics ability to bubble. The reason you can't have JBs is because there is no SOV in lowsec.

Why should Titans be unable to DD in lowsec? I can understand the lack of bubbles because you all are too afraid of dealing with bubble camps and CONCORD still has some semblance of influence. But there is no good reason for titans to be unable to DD. The reason Titans can't DD is because of an arbitrary decision. You claim that DDing of a lowsc carrier is unfair. What makes it unfair? Is it the fact that in Eve there are consequences for your actions which, if DDs were allowed in lowsec, would be the DDing of your carrier? tbh if you put your carrier in a position where it could be DDed you deserve to be DDed. Actions and consequences are what makes Eve so special.

Your proposed change to bridging reeks of the lack of DDing in lowsec: someone arbitrarily decided it shouldn't be. No rhyme or reason. Even CCP Fozzie, I believe (feel free to correct if I am wrong), said that there wasn't a good reason for Titans to be unable to DD in lowsec and if he had a choice Titans would be allowed to DD.

So aside from a "Titans can't do A because of an arbitrary decision so they shouldn't be able to to B" argument why don't you give us a real reason for Titans to be unable to DD and to bridge? Personally, bridging should stay and DDs should be allowed because Eve is all about actions and consequences. Whether or not those consequences should be administered by a Titan, dread, or roaming fleet doesn't really matter.
Rob Otokhan
Asteroid Farm Unlimited
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2013-07-31 06:26:01 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
A Titan's ability to DD has nothing to do with a hic or dics ability to bubble. The reason you can't have JBs is because there is no SOV in lowsec.

Why should Titans be unable to DD in lowsec? I can understand the lack of bubbles because you all are too afraid of dealing with bubble camps and CONCORD still has some semblance of influence. But there is no good reason for titans to be unable to DD. The reason Titans can't DD is because of an arbitrary decision. You claim that DDing of a lowsc carrier is unfair. What makes it unfair? Is it the fact that in Eve there are consequences for your actions which, if DDs were allowed in lowsec, would be the DDing of your carrier? tbh if you put your carrier in a position where it could be DDed you deserve to be DDed. Actions and consequences are what makes Eve so special.

Your proposed change to bridging reeks of the lack of DDing in lowsec: someone arbitrarily decided it shouldn't be. No rhyme or reason. Even CCP Fozzie, I believe (feel free to correct if I am wrong), said that there wasn't a good reason for Titans to be unable to DD in lowsec and if he had a choice Titans would be allowed to DD.

So aside from a "Titans can't do A because of an arbitrary decision so they shouldn't be able to to B" argument why don't you give us a real reason for Titans to be unable to DD and to bridge? Personally, bridging should stay and DDs should be allowed because Eve is all about actions and consequences. Whether or not those consequences should be administered by a Titan, dread, or roaming fleet doesn't really matter.


Its almost like you didn't read my post lol. I did give a reason. And by your reasoning we should be allowed to have caps in highsec and dd in highsec as well. My reasoning was simple, its a step process. High to low to null. With NPC null AMD whs in there somewhere.

Also, again, learn to read. I too take advantage of titan bridge hotdrops. I too use hics in null and I wish bubbles were in low sec. You're silly statement of "you all being afraid" is preposterous since low sec pirates wish they could bubble all you nullbears.

So again, my reasoning, not based on the lack of dd, but based on the step idea of security rating, is that null mechanics shouldn't work in lowsec. I simply used bubbles and dd as examples of things that are.nullsec mechanics that don't work in lowsec. It should be a halfway between high and null. Cynos and jumping, anchoring POS, limited moon mining, non co.sentual PvP,etc etc. Still with some consequences of highsec. Gate guns, sec status loss, criminal watch and killrights.

Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#5 - 2013-07-31 07:04:22 UTC
Wow wow, how to counter 3bil fitted ship without cyno? (if it didnt want honour pvp)
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#6 - 2013-07-31 08:26:16 UTC
Rob Otokhan wrote:
Its almost like you didn't read my post lol. I did give a reason. And by your reasoning we should be allowed to have caps in highsec and dd in highsec as well. My reasoning was simple, its a step process. High to low to null. With NPC null AMD whs in there somewhere.

Also, again, learn to read. I too take advantage of titan bridge hotdrops. I too use hics in null and I wish bubbles were in low sec. You're silly statement of "you all being afraid" is preposterous since low sec pirates wish they could bubble all you nullbears.

So again, my reasoning, not based on the lack of dd, but based on the step idea of security rating, is that null mechanics shouldn't work in lowsec. I simply used bubbles and dd as examples of things that are.nullsec mechanics that don't work in lowsec. It should be a halfway between high and null. Cynos and jumping, anchoring POS, limited moon mining, non co.sentual PvP,etc etc. Still with some consequences of highsec. Gate guns, sec status loss, criminal watch and killrights.


Again, you are arguing simply "because it isn't nullsec" certain things shouldn't be allowed. Which is correct when it comes to certain mechanics of the Space itself. Space != ship. If a ship can exist in a certain space then it should be able to use its full capacity so long as it doesn't violate the rules of that space. So Titans should be able to DD and bridge because it doesn't break the mechanics of lowsec. A hic or dic can not bubble because that would break the "No bubbles" mechanic of lowsec. There is a difference.

Let's take your argument and expand it: Imagine if I said you can't siege a dread, triage or use fighters on a carrier, use fighters or fighter bombers in a super, simply "because it is lowsec and I arbitrarily decided those are nullsec mechanics." By your logic that is a valid argument. All of those are perfectly valid mechanics, on ships that can perfectly fit and use the modules, in space where using those modules won't break any rules of that space. Seems like a silly thing to argue for when I use your logic to include things you never intended. See what happens when you confuse space and ship mechanics? Bubbles, SOV, jump bridges, etc are a space mechanics. DDs, bridging, triage, siege, fighters and fighter bombers are ship mechanics.
Rob Otokhan
Asteroid Farm Unlimited
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-07-31 11:05:41 UTC
so youre entire argument is based on the notion that any decision that dictates mechanics of low sec is arbitrary? i am saying that low sec should be treated differently from nullsec in some respects. the same way that high sec is different from low sec.

and a warp disruption field generator seems like a module to me on a HIC, why cant that be activated? and this whole arbitrary argument i see where youre coming from, but its already been arbitrarily decided somewhere that low sec is not null sec. and arbitrarily it is already treated a bit differently. like the red headed adopted and beaten child from when highsec and nullsec mated and dropped the spawn off at the doorstep of a homeless shelter.

--so would a more suitable description be that supers and super activated modules cannot be put into low sec? this owuld mean no titans, no super carriers, only dreads, carriers and sub caps. and also no titan bridges since it would be a supercap specific module. im fairly certain a remote ecm burst cant work in low sec either...but i might be wrong on that. this would be an effect on space, not a specific module. and would serve the purpose of these things not being allowed into empire space (low sec is still owned by empire and concord).

or is the the statement of deeming supercaps nullsec ships arbitrary as well? same as deeming carriers and dreads unable to enter highsec was arbitrary i suppose.