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Dev Blog: Battle for 6VDT-H - summary and numbers

First post
Author
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#21 - 2013-07-30 17:15:54 UTC
the discovery channel article was the most fun to read - you should add it to the links :)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Zer Res
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-07-30 17:49:00 UTC
"TEST had previously taken the region from IT Alliance in 2011"

Oh yeah? Weird how that wasn't what happened, but whatever...

"Eventually, the CFC warped in its capital fleet, comprised of dreadnoughts packing massive firepower and carriers with incredible battlefield triage abilities. "

Our carriers weren't triage fit; we went in boots. We had no need to try and save ourselves, we were insured and happy to die. Sad that only one died in the end, but there we go.

Course, there are more inaccuracies than that, but I'm a busy man and life must go on.

One more: "the coalition CFC and the alliance Test Alliance Please Ignore (shortened to TEST), have been waging war over the Fountain region." No mention of PL, S2N, NC., Tribe etc. etc.? You make it sound like it was just 'us against them', when in fact 'them' were barely a factor in this war.
Terje Teinturier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-07-30 17:50:41 UTC
Quote:
Named Time Dilatation, (or TiDi for short) (...)

You mean Time Dilation: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Time_Dilation
Kossaw
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#24 - 2013-07-30 17:56:43 UTC
Its a pretty good dev blog, thanks for doing that CCP Logibro.

However, for those of us who have been playing the game in null sec for more than a few months, its kinda lacking in real detail. I would certainly like to see more detail about how the server really handled the load. For example, 10 % TiDi clearly isn't enough to prevent the server going into the early stages of REAL lag, where modules don't cycle, guns don't stop, commands get dropped by the server etc that we remember from the bad old days before the server would finally turn up its toes and die.

So there are still some real lag issues hiding behind TiDi. TiDi is great - it keeps the servers running and Veritas is a hero for making it work. But it's by no means the complete story. There are still some real fundamental issues that still require fixing .....

* The server load caused by Session changes as people jump in and out and die. When will we see Veritas's blog on Brain In a Box about this topic ?

* The fundamental problem of the Eve server code being single threaded and only able to use one CPU core ?

There was some really excellent work being done on addressing lag before TiDi was released. Unfortunately it seems like senior CCP management now consider lag to be "fixed". This is far from the case as 6VDT proved, and it is an issue that will continue to be a problem for this game.

WTB : An image in my signature

Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-07-30 17:58:43 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
How much of the time was 10% speed insufficient to handle everything going on?

Most of the time. Command delays only returned to semi-usable levels when we were already mopping up.

It's still a massive improvement over pre-TiDi battles, if only because you could actually see what was happening instead of being stuck on a gate or cyno with no grid loaded while damage notifications pop up.

Vincent Athena wrote:

To those who were there: Would you prefer:

1) Even more TiDi
2) The server dropping player commands due to overload?

You can't really slow things down even more, because if you reduce the cap from 10% to 5%, that means everything will take twice as long as before; so instead of having a 6 hour battle, you'd be in there half a day. I think the current system is, while not optimal, already pretty good if you consider the numbers.
I agree that the server delaying your commands by minutes at a time is aggravating as ****, but short of CCP overhauling most of their code, there isn't much you can do.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#26 - 2013-07-30 17:58:48 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
Zer Res wrote:


"Eventually, the CFC warped in its capital fleet, comprised of dreadnoughts packing massive firepower and carriers with incredible battlefield triage abilities. "

Our carriers weren't triage fit; we went in boots. We had no need to try and save ourselves, we were insured and happy to die. Sad that only one died in the end, but there we go.



they posses the potential to have incredible triage abilities, whether or not they utilise them is beside the point. its not an inaccuracy its just not as precise as your OCD brain would prefer it to be.

i do like the line:

Quote:
Even a single pilot in a fragile frigate can make a difference in such a conflict.


cause its actually very true based on the stats shown, bombers killed the most ships in the battle, and if a squad of bombers were 1 bomber short of getting the final blow on targets it could very much make all the difference with ships surviving long enough to fire off a few more volleys at their enemies!
icechip
Apathy Unleashed
#27 - 2013-07-30 18:18:59 UTC
This fight was not something to talk about,

I was there... sort of. Took 5 hours to kill 6 ships.

Guns took 15-20 to cycle, 20m to turn on .

IT was EVE Screenshots online.


I just started shooting something , went and did laundry. N3 couldn't get there fleets into system. ppl were dropping.

CFC won because they were in system. So they didn't have to worry about numbers cap.

We had ppl waiting 30 min to log back on after DC.

Lag feast TIDI are ruining the game, and the battles are just getting bigger....




Kilian II
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-07-30 18:20:29 UTC
I was there \o/

You may or may not be interested that the battle got a report as well on Sueddeutsche.de, a large german newspaper.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/digital/computerspiel-eve-online-spieler-bestreiten-groesstes-weltraumgefecht-der-geschichte-1.1733639

(its in german obviously Cool)

Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#29 - 2013-07-30 18:41:54 UTC
Needs more graphs and stats.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-07-30 19:03:15 UTC
Zane Lowe wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
the best part was when test scattered in terror, then realized they had nowhere to flee


Man, you're pretty bitter over a win.



also this: 'then were butchered like swine'.

Yes, CFC knows this experience all too well Twisted
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#31 - 2013-07-30 19:10:39 UTC
chicago tribune test made it to the headline

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-07-30 21:11:20 UTC
I was there, on three characters, in the "most dangerous ships on the field". :toot:

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-07-30 21:13:06 UTC
Also, CCP, you might want to just look at how much ISK in ship value was lost over the course of the war. An example bar graph here:

https://twitter.com/pmchem/status/362254860160221184

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Tedric
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2013-07-30 21:13:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tedric
I was there.

7 or 8 hours of TiDi, but well worth it.

CCP, kudos for moving the Jita super-pimped-blade to 6VDT and letting us cook a working days worth Bacon on it.

Kudos for Test for showing up in force, pitty the node limited us to 4k people, if it was 5k or 6k it might have been quite a different story.

T.

1st edit:

P.S. I want more stats! any stats! Graph prom! lots of it!

2nd edit:

To all those complaining about TiDi, just remember what it was like pre-TiDi. With 700 players slugging it out it was "load star map and follow broadcasts" just to make things behave better! Brackets? wot? they were NOT an option, now it is just painful at 4k.

Guys! YOU HAVE NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD! STOP BITCHING!

Ok so i had to crank down all my settings to low/minimum (my machine is not a slouch), big deal!

CCPs to do list:
- Brain in a box: bring it on!
- Spin off some of the support number crunching onto surrounding cores, whatever, just multithread some of it.
- Perform session change number crunching/comms on an adjacent core, just communicate the result (batch style).
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#35 - 2013-07-30 22:03:05 UTC
I like how they strategically chose not to expand the CFC acronym in the first sentence Lol
Travasty Space
Pilots of Epic
#36 - 2013-07-30 23:24:56 UTC
While you guys didn't hard cap the system to 4k it was definitely soft capped around there. Somewhat saddening as it could of reached 4.5k+ without much issue w/o that soft cap.
Wapu Kashuken
Serenity Rising LLC
#37 - 2013-07-30 23:32:58 UTC
Would love to know the types of ships destroyed (by number) as well as total isk lost (just a swag would suffice). Great blog aside from that Big smile
Besbin
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#38 - 2013-07-31 00:53:49 UTC
icechip wrote:
This fight was not something to talk about,


You should work in the comedy business
Qestroy
TaxIsTheft
#39 - 2013-07-31 00:59:55 UTC
Tarsas Phage wrote:

Nice write-up, but one request - can you include some actual server stats? Give us some operations **** :) It might just be a good way to showcase how well a single node can handle the load under the TiDi system.

Network bandwidth, CPU utilization would be a neat thing.

Handling... WELL?

I mean props, it handled it, remarkable in itself. But it was awful in there, ship responded to 10% of my commands at best... after about 10 minutes. When the caps came in...

EvilweaselSA wrote:

then were butchered like swine

I'm still there... didn't butcher me...
However, we brought as much as you brought subcap, if you had 2000 people and the system maxed out at 4070... We hardly brought a "makeweight fleet" you wouldn't have had a fight at all otherwise, let alone a record breaking one. At least we have the balls to turn up when we're losing


On a lighter note, would love a damage estimate and some more shiny stats :D
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2013-07-31 02:15:23 UTC
Qestroy wrote:

I'm still there... didn't butcher me...
However, we brought as much as you brought subcap, if you had 2000 people and the system maxed out at 4070... We hardly brought a "makeweight fleet" you wouldn't have had a fight at all otherwise, let alone a record breaking one. At least we have the balls to turn up when we're losing

well i guess you managed to flee successfully

and we didn't have a fight, we had a slaughter, our fc's got bored and just let the fleets kill everyone themselves while they played other games and stayed around in case somehow they were needed (they were not needed because your fleet was a joke)