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2nd Amenedment.

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Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#41 - 2013-07-30 16:39:24 UTC
Hells Merc wrote:
Kirjava wrote:
People kill people, guns make it easier.

Switzerland is better armed than the US, conclusion is that US culture that is ****** up, not the concept of being armed.



You probably need to check the cities where gun crime is prevalent.

It can be as simple as the politics of the city and the consequent draconian guns laws preventing
good people from protecting their family, friends and property.

Only law abiding people obey laws.

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”

Contrary to popular belief in the US, we do have guns in Europe, just the UK has kittens over the idea of it.

We just don't kill people with them that often. This is a US cultural issue, look at the gun crime rates in Armed EU states and contrast with the US.

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Hells Merc
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-07-30 16:40:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
duglas Luven wrote:



As goes the 2nd so goes the 1st my friend.


You dont need guns for free speech. Any nation that does is in very big trouble.




We never learn.
Hells Merc
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-07-30 16:42:49 UTC
Kirjava wrote:
Hows that NSA thing working out for you?




Our enemies are just lapping it up kidda !
Kirjava
Lothian Enterprises
#44 - 2013-07-30 16:44:16 UTC
Hells Merc wrote:
Kirjava wrote:
Hows that NSA thing working out for you?




Our enemies are just lapping it up kidda !

It's also made Europe look at the US as the second coming of the Eastern Block.Straight

[center]Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007. /人◕‿‿◕人\ Unban Saede![/center]
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#45 - 2013-07-30 16:52:49 UTC
I tend not to bother with these threads because the moment I do, it get locked.

So, IBTL.

(And opinions on the matter change NOTHING. Real liberty is not needing permission or acceptance from anybody. If I am out-voted on whether I can have guns or not, and such mob rule is the rule of the day, then a 30 round magazine can be said to contain "30 votes". 'Nuff said.)

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Commissar Romonov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-07-30 18:54:39 UTC
Arguing about the Second Amendment is a lost cause. Americans are so overly defensive of their firearms it's quite pathetic.

If you even suggest a gun safe to most Americans, they are outraged at the idea of being a responsible gun owner and keeping the majority of their firearms locked away. I guess they don't care about the hundreds of thousands of firearms stolen or 'lost' each year... and they wonder where criminals get firearms... criminals with firearms which most people arm themselves in order to defend themselves from... Self-perpetuating idiocy.

Secondly would be an alarm system visible from the exterior of the property. You would have thought this would be pretty high on the priority list, no? I mean, if you can almost certainly avoid a situation where you're going to be confronted in your home by a criminal, armed or not, why wouldn't you? Home alarm systems aren't expensive, but I guess they're too expensive when "I have a gun in case they get in hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr".

Thirdly... Why the HELL would you not register firearms? The NRA must really be doing a good job pumping their propaganda if the majority of Americans REALLY believe or live in fear of the government kicking their door down and taking their firearms. You would have thought that hundreds of millions of people having their guns confiscated would make a bit of a fuss that would become nationally recognised pretty soon into anything like that happening, but no. I guess it's a legitimate threat and the NRA are really there for the interests of the people RollRollRollRollRollRoll

The US media doesn't help the frenzy either. In my experiences of visiting there, there aren't many middle-ground news outlets that aren't unbiased as all hell. It really doesn't help when most of the major media put people on one side of the fence or the other. Vehemently for or vehemently against... How can people possibly consider compromise when there are major organisations telling them and millions of others that it's wrong because of x, y and z... while another says it's right because of x, y and z... It's just sloppy and unsurprising to see the amount of issues when people aren't even getting unbiased news.

Then there's the Republicans... Never have I pitied a group as much as I do the Republicans. The alarming ignorance and frequency of it in the Republican Party is astounding... Especially so since the majority of the time their asinine comments go unchallenged and unpunished by their colleagues.

Hells Merc
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-07-30 19:15:33 UTC



Commissar Romonov wrote:
Arguing about the Second Amendment is a lost cause. Americans are so overly defensive of their firearms it's quite pathetic.

If you even suggest a gun safe to most Americans, they are outraged at the idea of being a responsible gun owner and keeping the majority of their firearms locked away. I guess they don't care about the hundreds of thousands of firearms stolen or 'lost' each year... and they wonder where criminals get firearms... criminals with firearms which most people arm themselves in order to defend themselves from... Self-perpetuating idiocy.

Secondly would be an alarm system visible from the exterior of the property. You would have thought this would be pretty high on the priority list, no? I mean, if you can almost certainly avoid a situation where you're going to be confronted in your home by a criminal, armed or not, why wouldn't you? Home alarm systems aren't expensive, but I guess they're too expensive when "I have a gun in case they get in hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr".

Thirdly... Why the HELL would you not register firearms? The NRA must really be doing a good job pumping their propaganda if the majority of Americans REALLY believe or live in fear of the government kicking their door down and taking their firearms. You would have thought that hundreds of millions of people having their guns confiscated would make a bit of a fuss that would become nationally recognised pretty soon into anything like that happening, but no. I guess it's a legitimate threat and the NRA are really there for the interests of the people RollRollRollRollRollRoll

The US media doesn't help the frenzy either. In my experiences of visiting there, there aren't many middle-ground news outlets that aren't unbiased as all hell. It really doesn't help when most of the major media put people on one side of the fence or the other. Vehemently for or vehemently against... How can people possibly consider compromise when there are major organisations telling them and millions of others that it's wrong because of x, y and z... while another says it's right because of x, y and z... It's just sloppy and unsurprising to see the amount of issues when people aren't even getting unbiased news.

Then there's the Republicans... Never have I pitied a group as much as I do the Republicans. The alarming ignorance and frequency of it in the Republican Party is astounding... Especially so since the majority of the time their asinine comments go unchallenged and unpunished by their colleagues.









WTF are you on about hahahahaha.
Commissar Romonov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-07-30 19:19:34 UTC
duglas Luven wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
duglas Luven wrote:



As goes the 2nd so goes the 1st my friend.


You dont need guns for free speech. Any nation that does is in very big trouble.



let me beak it down for you:

An armed citizenry is a free citizenry. The founding fathers wrote the 2nd amendment not to protect our right to hunt. but so that we would be able to protect ourselves from oppression and attack. If the government wishes to silence it's people (free speech) they 1st take the guns away. IE Germany in the 30's, China, USSR under Stalin, Cambodia, the list goes on and on. It starts with a "We need to protect our children" crap, Hit-ler did that. Look where it got the jews and those that SPOKE OUT (again with the free speech). Do you think people would have been rounded up like cattle if they were armed, no they would have resisted it, some would have died, but not millions as it was.

So when i say "As goes the 2nd so goes the 1st my friend" it's very much true and has been proven time and time again.

I guess another way to put it would be: As goes the gun so goes the pen.


I always find it laughable when people pull the free citizenry card. Do you really think you're free? If the government wanted to kill you then you wouldn't stand a chance.

If you want to see how an insurgency armed with sub-standard weapons stands up against a standing army, go look at Iraq and Afghanistan.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#49 - 2013-07-30 19:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Commissar Romonov wrote:
duglas Luven wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
duglas Luven wrote:



As goes the 2nd so goes the 1st my friend.


You dont need guns for free speech. Any nation that does is in very big trouble.



let me beak it down for you:

An armed citizenry is a free citizenry. The founding fathers wrote the 2nd amendment not to protect our right to hunt. but so that we would be able to protect ourselves from oppression and attack. If the government wishes to silence it's people (free speech) they 1st take the guns away. IE Germany in the 30's, China, USSR under Stalin, Cambodia, the list goes on and on. It starts with a "We need to protect our children" crap, Hit-ler did that. Look where it got the jews and those that SPOKE OUT (again with the free speech). Do you think people would have been rounded up like cattle if they were armed, no they would have resisted it, some would have died, but not millions as it was.

So when i say "As goes the 2nd so goes the 1st my friend" it's very much true and has been proven time and time again.

I guess another way to put it would be: As goes the gun so goes the pen.


I always find it laughable when people pull the free citizenry card. Do you really think you're free? If the government wanted to kill you then you wouldn't stand a chance.

If you want to see how an insurgency armed with sub-standard weapons stands up against a standing army, go look at Iraq and Afghanistan.


And not to mention the other insurgency, the one fighting along the government and against YOU...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#50 - 2013-07-30 19:46:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
Alright I conceded that every country in Eurrope has just as violent a culture clash as the US States do.

That being said no one has even mentioned any of the Epidemiological statistics I have provided, per usual Roll

So please go ahead and list the all causes of mortality for your respective countries. I mean you all doing such a great job and guns cause all the problems in the Sates, your countries should really really put the US homicide rates to shame.

Also, while you are all trying to save everyone why not go ahead and outlaw alcohol? I mean it is, typically, the primary instigator of most violent domestic conflicts that end in death Roll [EDIT] And a major cause of accidental deaths as well[/End Edit]

Commissar Romonov wrote:


I always find it laughable when people pull the free citizenry card. Do you really think you're free? If the government wanted to kill you then you wouldn't stand a chance.

If you want to see how an insurgency armed with sub-standard weapons stands up against a standing army, go look at Iraq and Afghanistan.


The US military would not turn on its citizenry, in totality at least, so therefore some those non sub standard weaponry would be on the side of the citizenry. Much more then any non indistrialized nation would have access to.

P.S. I do not disagree that proper in house gun control, safes, locks, etc would all but eliminate accidental deaths from firearms.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#51 - 2013-07-30 20:08:02 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:
Alright I conceded that every country in Eurrope has just as violent a culture clash as the US States do.

That being said no one has even mentioned any of the Epidemiological statistics I have provided, per usual Roll

So please go ahead and list the all causes of mortality for your respective countries. I mean you all doing such a great job and guns cause all the problems in the Sates, your countries should really really put the US homicide rates to shame.

Also, while you are all trying to save everyone why not go ahead and outlaw alcohol? I mean it is, typically, the primary instigator of most violent domestic conflicts that end in death Roll

Commissar Romonov wrote:


I always find it laughable when people pull the free citizenry card. Do you really think you're free? If the government wanted to kill you then you wouldn't stand a chance.

If you want to see how an insurgency armed with sub-standard weapons stands up against a standing army, go look at Iraq and Afghanistan.


The US military would not turn on its citizenry, in totality at least, so therefore some those non sub standard weaponry would be on the side of the citizenry. Much more then any non indistrialized nation would have access to.

P.S. I do not disagree that proper in house gun control, safes, locks, etc would all but eliminate accidental deaths from firearms.


Intentional homicide, Spain: 0.8 per 100,000 (2010); down from 1.0 in 1995

Intentional homicide, USA: 4.8 per 100,000 (2010); down from 8.1 in 1995

Source: http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/crime/Homicide_statistics2012.xls

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#52 - 2013-07-30 20:12:55 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:

So please go ahead and list the all causes of mortality for your respective countries. I mean you all doing such a great job and guns cause all the problems in the Sates, your countries should really really put the US homicide rates to shame.

Deaths by violence/ homicide, or mortality in general?

The annual homicide mortality rate in the UK is 1.1 people per 100,000, in the US it's 6.5 per 100,000. (2009 figures)

If you want mortality rates in general the largest individual cause of death in the UK is circulatory disease at 291.5 per 100,000 out of an overall 896 per 100,000 people (2009 figures from the office of national statistics).

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#53 - 2013-07-30 20:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Intentional homicide, Spain: 0.8 per 100,000 (2010); down from 1.0 in 1995

Intentional homicide, USA: 4.8 per 100,000 (2010); down from 8.1 in 1995

Source: http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/crime/Homicide_statistics2012.xls


So we have a downward trend even with more guns than before, that must be a good sign that education is working. Also when you look at the all causes of mortality, if we really want to be fascists about it and actually prevent preventable deaths, we should be targeting other much more significant causes of death and dissability.

The cost of removing the majority of the guns from the USA citizenry is not feasible and would be a tremendous burden on the tax payers. Too boot the insane individuals that want to kill in mass numbers will resort to homemade bombing techniques which are actually more efficient at killing large numbers of people. Let the lunatics keep thinkning that they are more efficient with guns.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

Deaths by violence/ homicide, or mortality in general?

The annual homicide mortality rate in the UK is 1.1 people per 100,000, in the US it's 6.5 per 100,000. (2009 figures)

If you want mortality rates in general the largest individual cause of death in the UK is circulatory disease at 291.5 per 100,000 out of an overall 896 per 100,000 people (2009 figures from the office of national statistics).


As pointed out above by Ishtanchuk in 1 year we hade an almost 2 point drop in homicide rates, according to one group. Do you really think that attempting to remove a majority of guns will shrink our homicide rate down another 3 points to come in line with a majority of Western European countries? Or do you think that I may have a point that the homicidal maniacs, that give guns a bad name, will just revert to time tested and proven efficient methods of mass murder and actually increase homicide rates?

P.S. My comment about alcohol was not a troll it was completely serious. More people are killed each year in the US by drunk drivers then are killed by guns. I assume that drunk driving is not nearly as large a problem in Europe as it is in the States, but I hypothesize that violence by drunken individuals occur at similar rates.

P.P.S I do not think we punish drunk drivers nearly as harshly as we should. I also beileve that our sentencing for actual violent or potentially violent offenders are not nearly harsh enough. Our education system and our judicial systems are just as broken as our Exectutive and Legislative branches of government. Guns are not the primary problem the people are more so.
Tumahub
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2013-07-30 22:02:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tumahub
Kirjava wrote:
Hells Merc wrote:
Kirjava wrote:
Hows that NSA thing working out for you?




Our enemies are just lapping it up kidda !

It's also made Europe look at the US as the second coming of the Eastern Block.Straight


You mean made it obvious that the nations of Europe are the new satellite states of the USSA.

"Bring down that presidential jet boys. Good, good. Now we're going to need you to stop talking about this NSA business."
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#55 - 2013-07-30 22:41:19 UTC
If you want to discuss politics, there are forums other than the Eve Online forums for it. Please keep RL politics out of here. Thank you.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
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