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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Cyno's and bubbles
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Daisai
Daisai Investments.
#1 - 2013-07-28 02:06:36 UTC
Perhapse it would be a good idea to change how cyno's work inside a bubble.
Right now its possible to lock on to a cyno that is inside a bubble, making it very easy to titanbridge a fleet on a small gang that is inside the bubble.
Yes you might lose a hic in the process but you probably end up killing the fleet in the process anyway.

It is strange that you are able to lock on to a cyno inside a bubble, since a bubble also disrupts your warp when you warp to a bubble.
So it should disrupt your jump aswell when you try to jump to one, since it prevents you from jumping out of one aswell.

So my suggestion is to prevent a capital to lock on to a cyno that is inside a bubble when its up.

The reasons for this are:

- It gives a valid counter for smaller gangs when they are out roaming, in case you see a ship or a fleet that are about to cyno up you can have either a hic or a dictor bubbling up to prevent their fleet from jumping in.

- It also gives a small gang a chance to warp away from a hic with a cyno from warping away, he can still have a ship pointed with his scripter point and perhapse a point in his mid slot.
But he wont have a complete gang pointed with his bubble, making a hotdrop on a small gang less effective.

- Reinforcing fleets in large fleet battles becomes more difficult, when you have a large fleet and you place your defensive bubbles you cant just bubble up the whole place.
You would have to think really good about using these bubbles in case of reinforcements.

This also gives smaller alliances in these large fleets battles a chance to effectively fight larger alliance since they can try to prevent you from reinforcing a fleet.


So basicly the whole idea of this suggestion is to give more of an advantage to smaller gangs and smaller alliance and less to large fleets and large alliances.

Hopefully CCP might take a look at his and think it over since i think it would make small gang pvp in null sec more effective then it is now.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#2 - 2013-07-28 02:32:22 UTC
Daisai wrote:

You would have to think really good about using these bubbles in case of reinforcements.


No I wouldn't. I just use a cloaked cyno ship outside the main fight to drop snipers at range.
Daisai
Daisai Investments.
#3 - 2013-07-28 02:34:32 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Daisai wrote:

You would have to think really good about using these bubbles in case of reinforcements.


No I wouldn't. I just use a cloaked cyno ship outside the main fight to drop snipers at range.


That is something you could do but its not really the thing im discussing here, im more giving the suggestion to prevent capitals to lock on cyno's that are inside a bubble.

Perhapse you got a opinion regarding that idea?
Rune Scorpio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-07-30 16:27:30 UTC
Daisai wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Daisai wrote:

You would have to think really good about using these bubbles in case of reinforcements.


No I wouldn't. I just use a cloaked cyno ship outside the main fight to drop snipers at range.


That is something you could do but its not really the thing im discussing here, im more giving the suggestion to prevent capitals to lock on cyno's that are inside a bubble.

Perhapse you got a opinion regarding that idea?


Shouldnt be able to solo tackle and light a cyno either. Cynos are broken badly.
Daisai
Daisai Investments.
#5 - 2013-07-30 17:00:05 UTC
I dont really see a problem with that because a tackler who lights a cyno already has a short lifetime due to no movement.

Bit suprised no one has a opinion about this though, since eve is lacking a lot of small gang pvp lately and this might help it a great deal.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#6 - 2013-07-30 17:06:19 UTC

My first reaction was this was broken... but now that I'm thinking about it, I'm becoming more of a fan of it.

A few thoughts:
1.) I highly suggest covert cyno's are immune to this effect. I see no reason to hinder a covert fleet bridging in, as most of those ships are fragile enough as it is!

2.) What is your intended target? I feel that preventing capitals from coming in is actually detrimental. For example, a BS fleet often brings in a triage carrier to support it, which I feel is a completely reasonable and should be encouraged, NOT Hindered!!!!! In contrast, bridging in a 20 man unscoutable subcap fleet leaves the small-gang PvP'ers with sore buttcheeks, and I'm completely down with strategic bubbles to prevent reinforcements. Finally, you get the skittish gate campers that only take losses when they are surprised when a bait ship bridges in support. The point of this paragraph: While I'm down with inhibiting titan bridging a fleet in, I'm not a fan of hindering capital from entering the battlefield.

3.) Since you can't bubble in lowsec, this mechanic does nothing change hotdrop mechanics there. Do you think something should be done to address hotdrops in lowsec too?
Daisai
Daisai Investments.
#7 - 2013-07-30 19:05:45 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

My first reaction was this was broken... but now that I'm thinking about it, I'm becoming more of a fan of it.

A few thoughts:
1.) I highly suggest covert cyno's are immune to this effect. I see no reason to hinder a covert fleet bridging in, as most of those ships are fragile enough as it is!

2.) What is your intended target? I feel that preventing capitals from coming in is actually detrimental. For example, a BS fleet often brings in a triage carrier to support it, which I feel is a completely reasonable and should be encouraged, NOT Hindered!!!!! In contrast, bridging in a 20 man unscoutable subcap fleet leaves the small-gang PvP'ers with sore buttcheeks, and I'm completely down with strategic bubbles to prevent reinforcements. Finally, you get the skittish gate campers that only take losses when they are surprised when a bait ship bridges in support. The point of this paragraph: While I'm down with inhibiting titan bridging a fleet in, I'm not a fan of hindering capital from entering the battlefield.

3.) Since you can't bubble in lowsec, this mechanic does nothing change hotdrop mechanics there. Do you think something should be done to address hotdrops in lowsec too?


1) agree with that.

2) You can still put up a cyno 5k km away or whatever distance away and warp in, this does make it alot harder and makes those fleet vunerable but that makes it less of a "blob" like warfare where you just light a cyno in the middle of the fleet and jump in whatever you got.

3) This might be a difficult thing to do, first thing that came to mind was a hictor with a focused script enabling to point the cyno but that might take it to long to target it and makes it rather useless.

You could of course enable bubbles in low sec, that would make alot of people happy and some people very sad and at the same time still people would be like "wtf is low sec?"
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#8 - 2013-07-30 21:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Daisai wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

My first reaction was this was broken... but now that I'm thinking about it, I'm becoming more of a fan of it.

A few thoughts:
1.) I highly suggest covert cyno's are immune to this effect. I see no reason to hinder a covert fleet bridging in, as most of those ships are fragile enough as it is!

2.) What is your intended target? I feel that preventing capitals from coming in is actually detrimental. For example, a BS fleet often brings in a triage carrier to support it, which I feel is a completely reasonable and should be encouraged, NOT Hindered!!!!! In contrast, bridging in a 20 man unscoutable subcap fleet leaves the small-gang PvP'ers with sore buttcheeks, and I'm completely down with strategic bubbles to prevent reinforcements. Finally, you get the skittish gate campers that only take losses when they are surprised when a bait ship bridges in support. The point of this paragraph: While I'm down with inhibiting titan bridging a fleet in, I'm not a fan of hindering capital from entering the battlefield.

3.) Since you can't bubble in lowsec, this mechanic does nothing change hotdrop mechanics there. Do you think something should be done to address hotdrops in lowsec too?


1) agree with that.

2) You can still put up a cyno 5k km away or whatever distance away and warp in, this does make it alot harder and makes those fleet vunerable but that makes it less of a "blob" like warfare where you just light a cyno in the middle of the fleet and jump in whatever you got.

3) This might be a difficult thing to do, first thing that came to mind was a hictor with a focused script enabling to point the cyno but that might take it to long to target it and makes it rather useless.

You could of course enable bubbles in low sec, that would make alot of people happy and some people very sad and at the same time still people would be like "wtf is low sec?"


In response to #2:
A.) Hictor and Interdictor bubbles are 16-36 km's and 20 km's in radius, respectively. For triage reps (which I want to encourage), you would have to move your cyno ship pretty far off the battle group to bring in the carrier. A Carrier has a 45-60 km rep range, so the "window" you have to safely bring in the ship is pretty small. Furthermore, if you mess up the cyno placement (and the opponent gets a bubble on it), you essentially have a station target many km's off the fight, which is stuck for 5-10 minutes.

B.) You can't effectively bring in a carrier and warp it to the fight. There are two reasons for this: First, a carrier takes a long time to warp (align times ~ 25-35 seconds for combat ready carriers). Granted, this can be circumvented somewhat by the web-to-warp mechanic. More importantly is point 2, which is a carrier cannot instantly stop. Understand that when a carrier enter's triage, it's velocity control becomes zero, so it can't align or move while triaged. In game play, this also means it cannot slow down once it enter's siege or triage, and will maintain it's original velocity throughout the entire siege cycle. In practice, you don't want to siege a capital ship that is traveling faster than 5 m/s, or else you risk it being in a very different location by the end of a siege cycle (300s).

Both A & B means that a bubble essentially removes the ability to reliably bring in a triage carrier to rep your BS gang. I find that a major issue with your suggestion, and is the primary reason I wouldn't support it. I like what it does for hotdrops, but really don't want to hinder the triage carrier role from the game!