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The Upgrda Medical Clone UI is Hateful and Dangerous
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Hespire Malneant
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-07-30 00:15:00 UTC
The Upgrade Clone button summons a dialog with the Omega grade clone at the top of the list, but probably there is not a single character in the game who needs one of those.

Instead, the player who wants to buy only the minimum clone that he needs has must scroll all the way to the bottom of the list.

Since you are removing the invalid choices from the list anyway, why not sort it in the opposite order, so that the one the user needs is always visible without scrolling? Also, this would place the appropriate choice in the position that should intuitively be the default.

Also, the current design leads inexperienced users to make costly mistakes. Suppose a new player has just subbed with a buddy invite, and the guy who sent him the invite splits the PLEX reward with him. This noob actually has enough ISK to buy an Omega clone, and might actually spend 100M ISK on it without knowing what he is doing. I personally know a case where this happened (hint: the issuer of the buddy invite was me).
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-07-30 00:28:48 UTC
the only imaginable counterargument would be HTFU, and even that is silly when applied to instances of bad UI such as this. here, have a thumb.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Hessian Arcturus
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-07-30 00:50:37 UTC
This is why you should read before you buy... Apply real world common sense to this game and bam, you don't have this problem.

It's human nature to want to explore. To find your line and go beyond it. The only limit, is the one you set yourself.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-07-30 01:22:03 UTC
Better avoid amazon and their one click shopping I guess Roll
Emerita Von Nynniaw
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-07-30 03:17:23 UTC
It is a valid suggestion. As it stands, the UI is rather counter-intuitive. However, as this is EVE, people will feel the need to deride and call the idea stupid and idiotic just because.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-07-30 03:37:23 UTC
Klymer wrote:
Better avoid amazon and their one click shopping I guess Roll


Amazon is a legit business that isn't into scamming their customers out of RL money, though.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#7 - 2013-07-30 03:45:24 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Klymer wrote:
Better avoid amazon and their one click shopping I guess Roll


Amazon is a legit business that isn't into scamming their customers out of RL money, though.



And you are implying what, exactly, with this comment?

I agree that the ordering of the clone options is counterintuitive, but calling it "hateful and dangerous" is a bit over the top, and suggesting or implying that it is deliberately made so for whatever reason - I dunno. Caveat emptor, people.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-07-30 04:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Klymer
Oh I forgot, shifting the blame for the consequences of ones actions from ones self to some other outside source is always the correct thing to do, silly me....

Oh and the features and Ideas forums is a bit farther down the list
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-07-30 06:46:31 UTC
Klymer wrote:
Oh I forgot, shifting the blame for the consequences of ones actions from ones self to some other outside source is always the correct thing to do, silly me....


If that's so, half of the EvE players would quit the game long ago.

See the game is to blame others for THEIR mistakes, not your own. Looks tough, but no real consequences...

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-07-30 08:19:59 UTC
Hessian Arcturus wrote:
This is why you should read before you buy... Apply real world common sense to this game and bam, you don't have this problem.

words cannot describe how stupid and inappropriate this attitude is when applied to a bad user interface. hey! let's randomly change the names of everything in the game every time you open a menu. after all... you should read before you buy! (yes, it's a punch line)

I should buy an Ishtar.
Hessian Arcturus
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-07-30 09:02:18 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Hessian Arcturus wrote:
This is why you should read before you buy... Apply real world common sense to this game and bam, you don't have this problem.

words cannot describe how stupid and inappropriate this attitude is when applied to a bad user interface. hey! let's randomly change the names of everything in the game every time you open a menu. after all... you should read before you buy! (yes, it's a punch line)


Stupid and innapropriate huh? Well in regards to the OP's topic if you read the clone medical grade it tells you right there exactly what it does. So if you happen to be purchasing the most expensive clone because you haven't read what it does...
The medical clone UI has the information needed within it. Yes, not all UI has the information needed, but you can find information on nearly everything in the game by simply reading.

If you blame the Clone Interface for purchasing the most expenive clone simply because you haven't read what it does right there in black and white, then that is your own fault, not the UI's.

It's human nature to want to explore. To find your line and go beyond it. The only limit, is the one you set yourself.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-07-30 10:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Hessian Arcturus wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Hessian Arcturus wrote:
This is why you should read before you buy... Apply real world common sense to this game and bam, you don't have this problem.

words cannot describe how stupid and inappropriate this attitude is when applied to a bad user interface. hey! let's randomly change the names of everything in the game every time you open a menu. after all... you should read before you buy! (yes, it's a punch line)


Stupid and innapropriate huh? Well in regards to the OP's topic if you read the clone medical grade it tells you right there exactly what it does. So if you happen to be purchasing the most expensive clone because you haven't read what it does...
The medical clone UI has the information needed within it. Yes, not all UI has the information needed, but you can find information on nearly everything in the game by simply reading.

good job reiterating your point without addressing my criticism.

Quote:
If you blame the Clone Interface for purchasing the most expenive clone simply because you haven't read what it does right there in black and white, then that is your own fault, not the UI's.

just because the ui tells you the state of the system does not mean it's a good ui. a good ui will anticipate trivial decisions and make them for you. in this case it would be pre-selecting the best clone for the player's skill points but leaving him the choice to upgrade to a more expensive one if he so wishes.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#13 - 2013-07-30 11:17:28 UTC
whats really funny is that the time it took the OP to write this post eclipses the amount of time hed have spent scrolling in the clone list for 10 years.

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-07-30 11:22:37 UTC
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
whats really funny is that the time it took the OP to write this post eclipses the amount of time hed have spent scrolling in the clone list for 10 years.


multiply that by the amount of users having to deal with this bullshit.

I should buy an Ishtar.
William Walker
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#15 - 2013-07-30 11:34:00 UTC
Stop dying.

ヽ(⌒∇⌒)ﾉ へ(゜∇、°)へ (◕‿◕✿)
JonnyRandom
#16 - 2013-07-30 13:06:23 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:

just because the ui tells you the state of the system does not mean it's a good ui. a good ui will anticipate trivial decisions and make them for you.


I don't know where you've been taught usability and UI design, but that is absolute horseshit right there. The worst thing you could possibly do is have the UI make decisions for the player. Especially in cases like this where the choice of the clone upgrade is NOT trivial at all. How exactly do you suppose the program should decide what is the best clone for me? Do you think it has mind reading powers to know that today I'm going to go pvp and want a clone that just covers my SP and thus has a minimum isk cost, and that tomorrow when I buy another clone I would have decided that I'm done with pvp and want a clone that will cover me for the next few months of skill training?

Before you start spewing out such bullshit please go study the topic at least a little bit.
Ilkahn
Ideal Mechanisms
#17 - 2013-07-30 13:20:58 UTC
Hespire Malneant wrote:
The Upgrade Clone button summons a dialog with the Omega grade clone at the top of the list, but probably there is not a single character in the game who needs one of those.

Instead, the player who wants to buy only the minimum clone that he needs has must scroll all the way to the bottom of the list.

Since you are removing the invalid choices from the list anyway, why not sort it in the opposite order, so that the one the user needs is always visible without scrolling? Also, this would place the appropriate choice in the position that should intuitively be the default.

Also, the current design leads inexperienced users to make costly mistakes. Suppose a new player has just subbed with a buddy invite, and the guy who sent him the invite splits the PLEX reward with him. This noob actually has enough ISK to buy an Omega clone, and might actually spend 100M ISK on it without knowing what he is doing. I personally know a case where this happened (hint: the issuer of the buddy invite was me).


Welcome to eve. Now that introductions are out of the way, allow me to tell you how to handle this. I did this once also. My advice is not to e-rage, swallow the bitter medicine that is impatience and do your excercises to alleviate "clickstofast" disease. It's worked for me. At least till the next event of "clickstofast" disease i seem to contract from time to time.
Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-07-30 13:26:45 UTC
I agree, list should be sorted the other way. There are about 63 million things I would like to see improved more than that, but still valid.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-07-30 14:20:57 UTC
JonnyRandom wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

just because the ui tells you the state of the system does not mean it's a good ui. a good ui will anticipate trivial decisions and make them for you.


I don't know where you've been taught usability and UI design, but that is absolute horseshit right there. The worst thing you could possibly do is have the UI make decisions for the player. Especially in cases like this where the choice of the clone upgrade is NOT trivial at all. How exactly do you suppose the program should decide what is the best clone for me? Do you think it has mind reading powers to know that today I'm going to go pvp and want a clone that just covers my SP and thus has a minimum isk cost, and that tomorrow when I buy another clone I would have decided that I'm done with pvp and want a clone that will cover me for the next few months of skill training?

does your browser support auto-completion of urls? does it have a 'most visited' tab? do your language combo boxes contain your native language by default or do they always start out with Albanian?

as for trivial or not: if you have to upgrade your clone, chances are you died recently. which in turn implies that you were participating in pvp. which again implies that you are probably a pvp player. regardless of whether you are or are not a pvp player, having the cheapest suitable clone pre-selected does not hurt you in any way, it will save you between 0 and 1 click and will not cost you any clicks in any case.

Quote:
Before you start spewing out such bullshit please go study the topic at least a little bit.

i would send you my diploma but i don't feel like proving my credentials to random cretins on the interwebs.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Gaellia Bonaventure
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-07-30 14:44:51 UTC
People really will complain about GD anything in this game.

Bring your possibles.
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