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Amarr-since you kee taking our cap, how about this

Author
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#1 - 2013-07-27 17:35:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mole Guy
in the begining, amarr chose laser weapons. then, in order to be able to carry more ammo, they perfected their capacitors which allowed them to fire more and more. at one time, the geddon "could" run a repper, burner, and fire all 7 of its lasers and be slightly over cap stable.
then came the cap nerf. by removing the amarian bonus to cap, you gimped us. and then being that beams are so damn cap hungry, we cant really use them effectively for long at all.

we amarrians need our cap back in some form.
take a meggy and line it up with an abaddon. set equal range and damage (close). see which one runs out of cap first. now how can u say we are masters of the cap with results like this.
now, you say use cap boosters. boosters are huge compared to ammo. fill a cargo hold full of ammo on the thron and cap boosters on the abby and see which one can shoot the longest. again, the thron goes a long time. the abby becomes bone dry in a second or 2. then takes a while to shoot.

you guys seriously gimped the whole amarr race by doing that. not like a tracking disruptor hurt minie, but it hurt everyone...this was a direct assault on amarr.

since we are the cap masters, how about giving some bonus to the cap we receive from cap boosters? since u are forcing us to use the damn things, where can you point besides the vengy and sac that actually gets a good cap bonus?
you cant. ok, so u gave us a bone giving the apoc a quicker regen, but it isnt ANY thing like before.

give us SOMETHING back. or make missiles and projectiles use cap and make the hybrids use more...
(not the desired effect, but give us a bone).

compare dps from a tachyon abby to a 425 thron. not over the course of a couple seconds, but over 3 hours.
max recharge to empty, then back to max recharge and fire to empty.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#2 - 2013-07-27 17:43:02 UTC
The hell fights are you going to be in that will be lasting over three hours?

No, POS bashing doesn't count. Something should probably be done I think in the more reasonable timespans to make such weapons more viable, but as a note I do not think that making missiles use capacitor is going to be that thing- because Caldari do not have particularly strong capacitor capabilities, at all. Missile boats, at least.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#3 - 2013-07-27 17:48:52 UTC
Aglais wrote:
The hell fights are you going to be in that will be lasting over three hours?

No, POS bashing doesn't count. Something should probably be done I think in the more reasonable timespans to make such weapons more viable, but as a note I do not think that making missiles use capacitor is going to be that thing- because Caldari do not have particularly strong capacitor capabilities, at all. Missile boats, at least.


fleet engagements last a bit. amarr are bone dry in seconds. the 3 hour thing was just for reference in sustained dps output, not burst. yeah great the abby can dish it out for 23.945 seconds..then it sits on its ass for 5 minutes and recharges.

and i was being sardonic about everyone using more cap. it was just so we could show an imbalance in amarr ships now.

we didnt do much damage before compared to others, but we could keep it up for a while. now, we cant even do that.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-07-27 17:55:45 UTC
Problem:
You can't use guns and armor repairers at the same time.

Solution:
Stop AFK'ing and learn to burst tank.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2013-07-27 18:10:34 UTC
If amarr had more room in the cargo I'd settle for that perhaps, run 4 cap boosters with a cargo hold full of cap charges. :D
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#6 - 2013-07-27 18:16:26 UTC
wow. some peoples stupidity baffles me.

how can you use lasers and afk?
lasers require targeting...duh.
i didnt mention anything about drones.

or did u forget how to fight? you know, actually targeting a ship and pushing the kill button.

you read all of that and only got the part about tanking? wow

its about general cap use. about how much cap lasers still pull. about being able to run longer and put out the same sustained damage of other ships.

no where did i mention afk tanking. or wishin i was uber like u and could burst tank....

its about balance. over the course of 3 hours, we can deal the same amount of damage as others while running these same mods.
its about not gimping one race or another. caldari dont use much cap because of missiles mostly. minie use projectiles, again not alot of cap.
its about differences but equality. we do xx damage per hour, they do xx damage per hour. we use lasers they use torps or rails...whatever is balanced. right now, its not balanced.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2013-07-27 18:25:52 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
in the begining, amarr chose laser weapons. then, in order to be able to carry more ammo, they perfected their capacitors which allowed them to fire more and more. at one time, the geddon "could" run a repper, burner, and fire all 7 of its lasers and be slightly over cap stable.
then came the cap nerf. by removing the amarian bonus to cap, you gimped us. and then being that beams are so damn cap hungry, we cant really use them effectively for long at all.

we amarrians need our cap back in some form.
take a meggy and line it up with an abaddon. set equal range and damage (close). see which one runs out of cap first. now how can u say we are masters of the cap with results like this.
now, you say use cap boosters. boosters are huge compared to ammo. fill a cargo hold full of ammo on the thron and cap boosters on the abby and see which one can shoot the longest. again, the thron goes a long time. the abby becomes bone dry in a second or 2. then takes a while to shoot.

you guys seriously gimped the whole amarr race by doing that. not like a tracking disruptor hurt minie, but it hurt everyone...this was a direct assault on amarr.

since we are the cap masters, how about giving some bonus to the cap we receive from cap boosters? since u are forcing us to use the damn things, where can you point besides the vengy and sac that actually gets a good cap bonus?
you cant. ok, so u gave us a bone giving the apoc a quicker regen, but it isnt ANY thing like before.

give us SOMETHING back. or make missiles and projectiles use cap and make the hybrids use more...
(not the desired effect, but give us a bone).

compare dps from a tachyon abby to a 425 thron. not over the course of a couple seconds, but over 3 hours.
max recharge to empty, then back to max recharge and fire to empty.


This is another reason why the 10% reduction in cap laser use bonus is ********. Especially after gimping Amarr's capacitor superiority.
Emma Yobibit
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-07-27 18:38:50 UTC
1. amarr ships buffer fit
2. use cap boosters
3. maller has 35K eHP while the thorax has around 22K
4. the Hyperion needs more love then lazors ^^

i dont think you have proven its a statistical issue, you can always try to prove your self but i think the only problem is amarr takes more skills in capacitor direction.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-07-27 18:46:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
Emma Yobibit wrote:
i dont think you have proven its a statistical issue, you can always try to prove your self but i think the only problem is amarr takes more skills in capacitor direction.

Yes, because applying dps is not hectic enough with all the different crystals and modules as is, so keeping an eye on capacitor and cycling tank and guns like a boss is also required. Humans don't multi-task, pilots who are required to multi-task in real life also crash like raindrops in a rain-storm (most crashes happen in routine landings and takeoffs because some second thing takes concentration from the single task of landing/taking off. Like a bird crossing the flightpath, a random message over the radio, or a notification window on the new LCD screen cockpits).
Humans either do cap balancing, or apply maximum dps, or tank most effectively (remembering to turn of overload before burning out, applying proper transversal, etc). Not two or three at a time (if you do two, you do them sequentially and do one, then the other, then the first again, then the other, etc).
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-07-27 18:49:04 UTC
Ronny Hugo wrote:
Emma Yobibit wrote:
i dont think you have proven its a statistical issue, you can always try to prove your self but i think the only problem is amarr takes more skills in capacitor direction.

Yes, because applying dps is not hectic enough with all the different crystals and modules as is, so keeping an eye on capacitor and cycling tank and guns like a boss is also required. Humans don't multi-task, pilots who are required to multi-task in real life also crash like raindrops in a rain-storm (most crashes happen in routine landings and takeoffs because some second thing takes concentration from the single task of landing/taking off. Like a bird crossing the flightpath, a random message over the radio, or a notification window on the new LCD screen cockpits).


I can triple box logistics ship in PvP i dont see your problem.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2013-07-27 18:50:42 UTC
Solutio Letum wrote:
I can triple box logistics ship in PvP i dont see your problem.

Video or it didn't happen.
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-07-27 18:59:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Solutio Letum
Ronny Hugo wrote:
Solutio Letum wrote:
I can triple box logistics ship in PvP i dont see your problem.

Video or it didn't happen.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19944315
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19944330
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19944324

over 150K of damage taken over an hour almost... (40 minutes to be exact)

Also id need to record 5000 x 1080 p or something like that, my computer cant handle that, nether can it just do 1080p at 60fps... i might record it sometime to see when ever i upgrade my pc.

edit: wrong link
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2013-07-27 19:21:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
Solutio Letum wrote:
Ronny Hugo wrote:
Solutio Letum wrote:
I can triple box logistics ship in PvP i dont see your problem.

Video or it didn't happen.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19944315
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19944330
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19944324

over 150K of damage taken over an hour almost... (40 minutes to be exact)

Also id need to record 5000 x 1080 p or something like that, my computer cant handle that, nether can it just do 1080p at 60fps... i might record it sometime to see when ever i upgrade my pc.

edit: wrong link


Looks like you can't triple-box Roll :P (Just kidding)
There's these things that can video-tape from outside the computer, also, dropping resolution works.
I'd like to see you try to manage 3 pantheon tanked apocs or abaddons (while applying dps to the enemy).
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-07-27 19:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Hareka
Ronny Hugo wrote:
I'd like to see you try to manage 3 pantheon tanked apocs or abaddons (while applying dps to the enemy).


Ok, now you guys are bringing carriers into this?

Why do you use local repairers on ships when you have Pantheon Carrier repping you?
Solutio Letum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-07-27 20:02:39 UTC
Ronny Hugo wrote:
Solutio Letum wrote:
Ronny Hugo wrote:
Solutio Letum wrote:
I can triple box logistics ship in PvP i dont see your problem.

Video or it didn't happen.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19944315
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19944330
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19944324

over 150K of damage taken over an hour almost... (40 minutes to be exact)

Also id need to record 5000 x 1080 p or something like that, my computer cant handle that, nether can it just do 1080p at 60fps... i might record it sometime to see when ever i upgrade my pc.

edit: wrong link


Looks like you can't triple-box Roll :P (Just kidding)
There's these things that can video-tape from outside the computer, also, dropping resolution works.
I'd like to see you try to manage 3 pantheon tanked apocs or abaddons (while applying dps to the enemy).



Lols, well in all truth it was my first time in TQ and we only had 2 mallers for DPS, because the rest of the corp decided to go outside since it was summer.

Tobias Hareka wrote:

Ok, now you guys are bringing carriers into this?

Why do you use local repairers on ships when you have Pantheon Carrier repping you?


no hes just saying instead of just triple boxing logi he would like to see me triple box BS's spider tanked and kill someone at the same time..... well i think...
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-07-27 20:11:54 UTC
not a vet but i see the OPs discussion, i need more cap for mah ship, being obligued to use cap recharger modules or CCCs in the rigs is a nonsense if our faction its supposed to have the BEST CAPACITOR GODDAMMIT!
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-07-27 20:16:25 UTC
Solutio Letum wrote:
no hes just saying instead of just triple boxing logi he would like to see me triple box BS's spider tanked and kill someone at the same time..... well i think...


Pantheon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwql_Sp0QG8
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#18 - 2013-07-27 20:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
Massive paraphrase of Fozzie from twitch interview/comments that mirrors my own opinion:

It is perfectly fine that laser boats are maddeningly unstable provided they have the raw performance to justify it.
(He said he was considering that route with regards to laser balance).

Since that is not currently the case, I say boost RoF on ALL lasers and increase cap use to a point where they outdamage blasters and track like autos as long as they are firing (which will be as always be dependent on cap).

Plays right into the idea of Amarr being designed for fleet/gang work where cap can be externalised while still allowing for solo/small gang work if/when making the "normal for Amarr" plus a bit sacrifices.

Fot it to really work I'd recommend CCP revisit the concept of Gallente having more lows than Amarr (WTF!?!) and to consider increasing cap relay and battery numbers slightly.

In short: Cap instability is irrelevant as long as the hammer being wielded is so damn heavy as to be earth shaking!
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2013-07-27 20:52:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Ronny Hugo wrote:
I'd like to see you try to manage 3 pantheon tanked apocs or abaddons (while applying dps to the enemy).


Ok, now you guys are bringing carriers into this?

Why do you use local repairers on ships when you have Pantheon Carrier repping you?

My bad, I meant spider-tanked battleships, apparently pantheon tanks are specifically only spider-tanked carriers, not spider tanked battleships.

EDIT: I agree with the post above this one. If my apoc is to be so cap-unstable I can only fire once every full-moon then it needs to do some serious damage when it fires. Teamwork and complex spider-energy generation stuff can then perhaps make groups good (you know, there's still lots to go wrong, going out of energy transfer proximity and battleships bumping and losing the proper transversal, one in the cap-chain falling and the partner not being taken into another pair soon enough etc. Clumsiness would be the balancing agent). If amarr is to have to use mids for cap modules then the only way to get a fight will be to be outnumbered (you can't point so you can't fight anyone who thinks they'll lose). But I could really go for that. Roll
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#20 - 2013-07-27 22:40:33 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Massive paraphrase of Fozzie from twitch interview/comments that mirrors my own opinion:

It is perfectly fine that laser boats are maddeningly unstable provided they have the raw performance to justify it.
(He said he was considering that route with regards to laser balance).

Since that is not currently the case, I say boost RoF on ALL lasers and increase cap use to a point where they outdamage blasters and track like autos as long as they are firing (which will be as always be dependent on cap).

Plays right into the idea of Amarr being designed for fleet/gang work where cap can be externalised while still allowing for solo/small gang work if/when making the "normal for Amarr" plus a bit sacrifices.

Fot it to really work I'd recommend CCP revisit the concept of Gallente having more lows than Amarr (WTF!?!) and to consider increasing cap relay and battery numbers slightly.

In short: Cap instability is irrelevant as long as the hammer being wielded is so damn heavy as to be earth shaking!


I don't often agree with many of Veshta's posts but I couldn't agree more. +1

According to the lore the amarr are the absolute masters of power grid and cap management, thanks to their anti matter engines and Tesserac capacitors that are not apparently available to other races.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

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