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The Female Character "Attributes"

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Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#21 - 2013-07-27 11:32:00 UTC
Aya Shinomiya wrote:
Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.


Maybe for the same reason lots of women make toons that look like Ryan Gosling rather than Rab C Nesbitt.
Aleander Brunsh
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-07-27 11:34:47 UTC
The Lewis' Law is only jokingly law, it's actually an observation of typical behavior of the "con" side of discussion of feminism. And it being called upon is a way of noting that the discussion here immediately got to the point where it's a good illustration of certain problems we have, as a community (if you don't think we have, just please do note the prevalence of **** jokes in Eve guides, and if you don't think those are a problems, I think we stand on different base assumptions and won't really come into an agreement, also please never meet me in real life). A bit like calling Godwin's Law.
Aya Shinomiya
Promethean Ascension
#23 - 2013-07-27 11:34:56 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Aya Shinomiya wrote:
Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.


So what if a man wants to create an avatar that he enjoys looking at in a video game? What's he going to do, force himself on the avatar?

Seriously, don't go down this road, you won't like the answers, but if you insist on getting them anyway, then you are going to have to accept them for the sake of reality. So, I'll address the only actual question you asked in your entire OP, and leave it there, unless you have any other actual questions.

"But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be?"

No, people are usually just making something they enjoy looking at. Whether they expect that image or not in real life is beside the point and definitely not reflected by their choice of avatar creation. This is a world of fantasy, not reality, and you need to learn to separate the two, because you are bordering on the feminist mentality of "you can't do that with pixels because it offends me and gives women a bad image." It doesn't.

I might also add, in your OP, you didn't seem to offer any opinion at all, you really only asked one question amongst a bunch of words that seemed to describe what you were about to ask, but didn't.


I understand and your are right.
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#24 - 2013-07-27 11:37:14 UTC
Isaac Collins wrote:
No one cares, I repeat. No one. Not anyone, no individual exist with a real care for this matter. The game is 94% men (90% Male if you wanna be generous) We could have women looking like Quazymodo's grandad after he got his anus pillaged by the Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory and No one would legitimately care.




funny, but wrong

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
Aya Shinomiya
Promethean Ascension
#25 - 2013-07-27 11:38:50 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Aya Shinomiya wrote:
Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.


Maybe for the same reason lots of women make toons that look like Ryan Gosling rather than Rab C Nesbitt.


Interesting. I have not think about this aspect.
cogadh achur
#26 - 2013-07-27 11:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: cogadh achur
Aya Shinomiya wrote:
Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.


I am a man in real life, does my char's lack of big boobs etc mean that I am gay?

Oh, and if you are a real life woman, why the hell are you not a feminist, do you not want equal rights etc for women?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#27 - 2013-07-27 11:40:36 UTC
Most geeks can only dream of what a real woman looks like. They really have no idea.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#28 - 2013-07-27 11:41:40 UTC
cogadh achur wrote:


I am a man in real life, does my char's lack of big boobs etc mean that I am gay?



My toon has no boobs, and Im very RL gay. Ask around in OOPE. So...............

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Complex Potential
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-07-27 11:43:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Complex Potential
Thousands of years of being exposed to low gravity has resulted in an average boob mass increase across the population. You can't argue with evolution.
Aleander Brunsh
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-07-27 11:43:16 UTC
cogadh achur wrote:
Oh, and if you are a real life woman, why the hell are you not a feminist, do you not want equal rights etc for women?


Choose your battles. Being a feminist woman can be unpleasant, sometimes risky. It's not an obligation, please don't blame women for choosing otherwise. Feel free to be sad about it Lol
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-07-27 11:47:14 UTC
Aleander Brunsh wrote:
The Lewis' Law is only jokingly law, it's actually an observation of typical behavior of the "con" side of discussion of feminism. And it being called upon is a way of noting that the discussion here immediately got to the point where it's a good illustration of certain problems we have, as a community (if you don't think we have, just please do note the prevalence of **** jokes in Eve guides, and if you don't think those are a problems, I think we stand on different base assumptions and won't really come into an agreement, also please never meet me in real life). A bit like calling Godwin's Law.


No, it's nothing like Godwin's Law, because where Godwin's Law is grounded in an observed logical fallacy, Lewis' Law is not. People are going to disagree with you, that is inevitable, you do not need to write a law about it.

As for the **** jokes, while they are not something I personally regard as funny, they are protected under free speech whether you like it or not. Actual **** is criminal, the jokes are not. Do you understand? You can have a problem with them and the people who use them all you like, but the fact that they are ALLOWED to say them means there is no problem in the community. The problems would only start if someone were to begin limiting their free speech.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Andrea Griffin
#32 - 2013-07-27 11:47:37 UTC
Well, when I sculpted this character, her breasts were in the average range. One day I wanted to put on my fancy new Right Arm 'Nature' Tattoo and I noticed that my bust size had increased to, quite frankly, a ridiculous proportion. I poked around a bit and it seems that CCP modified some of the configuration stuff for the female bodies so that some of the clothing would fit better, and re-rendered everyone. This resulted in a mega-rack for quite a lot of people. Not what I really wanted.

That's what I heard through the grapevine anyway, haven't seen it 100% confirmed.

Has anyone attempted a petition for a resculpt? Was it successful? I don't really want this character to look like she's about to fall over at any moment.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Aleander Brunsh
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-07-27 11:51:51 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
No, it's nothing like Godwin's Law, because where Godwin's Law is grounded in an observed logical fallacy, Lewis' Law is not. People are going to disagree with you, that is inevitable, you do not need to write a law about it.

Actually, your current reaction is typical for someone who got Godwined. "BBBBBUuutt I was totally right, Hitler was a vegetarian!" (sidenote, no he wasn't).

Remiel Pollard wrote:
As for the **** jokes, while they are not something I personally regard as funny, they are protected under free speech whether you like it or not. Actual **** is criminal, the jokes are not. Do you understand? You can have a problem with them and the people who use them all you like, but the fact that they are ALLOWED to say them means there is no problem in the community. The problems would only start if someone were to begin limiting their free speech.


You seem to think I propose jail time for people who make **** jokes. I don't. Also, you keep using the expression "free speech". I think it means something else than you think it does.

(have fun in this thread, I'm going elsewhere, and the thing is going to go in loops from now on, IMO)
Annalise Elina Amaranthus
#34 - 2013-07-27 11:54:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Annalise Elina Amaranthus
Well, for myself all I can say is I was bottle fed as an infant and have had boob envy since. I like my women with swelled hips, a large butt and boobs large enough that I can... ok lets not go there.

I am not psychotic.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-07-27 11:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Aleander Brunsh wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
No, it's nothing like Godwin's Law, because where Godwin's Law is grounded in an observed logical fallacy, Lewis' Law is not. People are going to disagree with you, that is inevitable, you do not need to write a law about it.

Actually, your current reaction is typical for someone who got Godwined. "BBBBBUuutt I was totally right, ****** was a vegetarian!" (sidenote, no he wasn't).

Remiel Pollard wrote:
As for the **** jokes, while they are not something I personally regard as funny, they are protected under free speech whether you like it or not. Actual **** is criminal, the jokes are not. Do you understand? You can have a problem with them and the people who use them all you like, but the fact that they are ALLOWED to say them means there is no problem in the community. The problems would only start if someone were to begin limiting their free speech.


You seem to think I propose jail time for people who make **** jokes. I don't. Also, you keep using the expression "free speech". I think it means something else than you think it does.

(have fun in this thread, I'm going elsewhere, and the thing is going to go in loops from now on, IMO)


I never said anything about Hitler, and whether he was a vegetarian or not is irrelevant. What you are doing now is simultaneously shifting the goalposts and making a strawman. You claim my 'reaction' was 'typical' for something, but, you didn't actually specify how. You also seem to be misunderstanding Godwin's Law.

And what you think something means is irrelevant to what it actually means. There are actually laws surrounding freedom of speech and expression, so you can look them up and find out for yourself. In the end, though, what you think is irrelevant to what is and what should be.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Aya Shinomiya
Promethean Ascension
#36 - 2013-07-27 11:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Aya Shinomiya
cogadh achur wrote:
Aya Shinomiya wrote:
Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.


I am a man in real life, does my char's lack of big boobs etc mean that I am gay?

Oh, and if you are a real life woman, why the hell are you not a feminist, do you not want equal rights etc for women?


I mean the average female character not all. But nearly 80% of all is saw so far. I am a man, too. In my country feminism is a little bit out of control this time, so I say it with a slightly negative sound. But no, in my eyes men and woman are and should be - depending on the culture which one should respect - fully equal in rights and social position. I have my own opinion of the role of men and woman in the society but this is not the topic here.
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-07-27 12:01:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme more Cynos
Aya Shinomiya wrote:
Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.


Let me ask a question: If you (would be a female and) could design the male you want - would it be ugly as hell? Would he have small genitals? Would he be a big, fat and hairy bear with a tiny pen*s? I seriously doubt it, and I think most women would indeed create a male character they would like to look at aswell.

With this in mind - what's the point in making this thread anyway?
Aya Shinomiya
Promethean Ascension
#38 - 2013-07-27 12:02:16 UTC
Andrea Griffin wrote:
Well, when I sculpted this character, her breasts were in the average range. One day I wanted to put on my fancy new Right Arm 'Nature' Tattoo and I noticed that my bust size had increased to, quite frankly, a ridiculous proportion. I poked around a bit and it seems that CCP modified some of the configuration stuff for the female bodies so that some of the clothing would fit better, and re-rendered everyone. This resulted in a mega-rack for quite a lot of people. Not what I really wanted.

That's what I heard through the grapevine anyway, haven't seen it 100% confirmed.

Has anyone attempted a petition for a resculpt? Was it successful? I don't really want this character to look like she's about to fall over at any moment.


You can buy a PLEX and use it for re-sculpting. You can transform one Game-Time-Card into one PLEX like I do.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-07-27 12:06:36 UTC
The way I see it, feminism is, by it's nature, sexist, because it is focusing on one sex by it's very definition. However, this is just an opinion, but it bases the way I think in things regardless.

When it comes to games, everyone on that game is a gamer. They're not a male gamer, or a female gamer, just a gamer. Their gender is irrelevant to me. Also, gender roles in games only exist in the imagination of the players. How they are cast is irrelevant, for the most part.

When it comes to rights, sure, there is definitely still some inequality in society, but it's still not incredibly well established where that inequality is rooted, or why. That is, it cannot just be blamed on men or a 'patriarchy' as a be-all and end-all solution, because blame is not a solution.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#40 - 2013-07-27 12:13:13 UTC
Aya Shinomiya wrote:
Dear EVE Online players,


When I am bored a little bit I often click around and look at the characters you guys have created. One thing according to the female characters is very ... prominent: It seems you guys mostly like big racks and half naked, skinny bodies.

I know that with a probability of 80 to 90% a man created the character. I am not a feminist. I think this a firstly a questions of aesthetics which of course depends on personal views. But I ask myself is this the imagination you have how a woman should be? This is not an attack on you guys. And I do not want to start a discussion of what you all thing is beautiful. I only wanted to show a conspicuity.

I do not tell you what to do. EVE Online is a free game for which you all pay. You can do what you want. I only wanted to give my opinion.


Regards.

No oversized rack.
No cleavage.
Decent and realistic body type/size.
Looks more like a badass, not a whore.
Male player.

I don't know about the rest of the player base, but I made and RP this character as the exact opposite of myself IRL.

...