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ccp add logis to kill-mails already
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Soma Khan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-11-10 14:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Soma Khan
since ccp has a team working to update killmails why not add logis for repping the friendlies that contribute to the kill?

it may be tricky to actually show the amount repped, but shouldn't be too difficult to show the logis active during the kill
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#2 - 2011-11-10 14:42:13 UTC
Soma Khan wrote:
since ccp has a team working to update killmails why not add logis for repping the friendlies that contribute to the kill?

it may be tricky to actually show the amount repped, but shouldn't be too difficult to show the logis active during the kill


learn to fit bnc'ing drones ya bum!

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Xen0nn
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2011-11-10 14:56:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen0nn
Jade Constantine wrote:
Soma Khan wrote:
since ccp has a team working to update killmails why not add logis for repping the friendlies that contribute to the kill?

it may be tricky to actually show the amount repped, but shouldn't be too difficult to show the logis active during the kill


learn to fit bnc'ing drones ya bum!


While valid, that's more of a work around and not always practical.
This is the sore reason its an issue for many Corps to get Logi Pliots to join fleets in their actual Logi ships.

Flying in a fleet and setting your drones to assist is not easy when, you're in a fast or big fleet or when the fleets are very small as most targets are dead before you drones are anywhere.

I think the solution would be to set anyone in fleet on the KM regardless of action.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-11-10 14:58:51 UTC
Soma Khan wrote:
since ccp has a team working to update killmails why not add logis for repping the friendlies that contribute to the kill?

it may be tricky to actually show the amount repped, but shouldn't be too difficult to show the logis active during the kill


More difficult than you might think.

- When does a logi "enter" an engagement, and when does it "leave" an engagement? If I rep someone 20 hours ago, do I show up on all of their killmails until they jump systems?
- How do you go from the victim's ship (the one being killed) to the logi ships? Logis usually don't rep the ship they are trying to kill, so how does the victim's ship know which logi ships have repaired which aggressors? You might be able to solve this problem by having the aggressor ships forward a notification to the victim's ship telling it that the aggressor is being repped by X logi ship so that the kill mail generation method has a handle to the logi ship, but I have no idea if CCP has a system in place for "messages" to bounce between ships like that or not.

Yeah, it's possible, but we have no idea if it really isn't "too difficult" or not, nor do we know what sort of performance penalties/database operations are required to solve this problem.

Although as a fellow logi pilot, I would definitely like to see this happen.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#5 - 2011-11-10 15:07:47 UTC
Xen0nn wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Soma Khan wrote:
since ccp has a team working to update killmails why not add logis for repping the friendlies that contribute to the kill?

it may be tricky to actually show the amount repped, but shouldn't be too difficult to show the logis active during the kill


learn to fit bnc'ing drones ya bum!


While valid, that's more of a work around and not always practical.
This is the sore reason its an issue for many Corps to get Logi Pliots to join fleets in their actual Logi ships.

Flying in a fleet and setting your drones to assist is not easy when, you're in a fast or big fleet or when the fleets are very small as most targets are dead before you drones are anywhere.

I think the solution would be to set anyone in fleet on the KM regardless of action.


I was half joking.

The serious point is that Logis often get involved in fights without aggressing the target (as in hisec station games) at least when they have aggressed (with a weapons system) they are committed the same as anyone else in the fight and can then be considered for generating killmails I think.

I don't really like the idea of rewarding the rather abusive neutral RR logi pilots with killmails while they don't place themselves at risk.

Make RR an aggressed target a form of aggression and get people flagged for return fire / 15 minute logout timer and I'll agree with Killmails for logi support.

Fair enough?

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Soma Khan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-11-10 15:25:27 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
Soma Khan wrote:
since ccp has a team working to update killmails why not add logis for repping the friendlies that contribute to the kill?

it may be tricky to actually show the amount repped, but shouldn't be too difficult to show the logis active during the kill


More difficult than you might think.

- When does a logi "enter" an engagement, and when does it "leave" an engagement? If I rep someone 20 hours ago, do I show up on all of their killmails until they jump systems?
- How do you go from the victim's ship (the one being killed) to the logi ships? Logis usually don't rep the ship they are trying to kill, so how does the victim's ship know which logi ships have repaired which aggressors? You might be able to solve this problem by having the aggressor ships forward a notification to the victim's ship telling it that the aggressor is being repped by X logi ship so that the kill mail generation method has a handle to the logi ship, but I have no idea if CCP has a system in place for "messages" to bounce between ships like that or not.

Yeah, it's possible, but we have no idea if it really isn't "too difficult" or not, nor do we know what sort of performance penalties/database operations are required to solve this problem.

Although as a fellow logi pilot, I would definitely like to see this happen.

there are probably several ways to do this, but essentially the server would simply record the info about the particular kill that the server already knows about. that is: the damage dealers, the ew boats, and the logis that repped them during that kill. again, all this info already resides on the server

as i said it would be more difficult to record the actual amount repped per a specific kill as the repping may have happened during the time when the friendly was not shooting anyone, at a safe spot, etc.
Soma Khan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-11-10 15:30:00 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:


I don't really like the idea of rewarding the rather abusive neutral RR logi pilots with killmails while they don't place themselves at risk.

do you like the idea of rewarding the stat padder with a solo killmail when it wasn't?

Jade Constantine wrote:
Make RR an aggressed target a form of aggression and get people flagged for return fire / 15 minute logout timer and I'll agree with Killmails for logi support.

Fair enough?

no argument here, though it's a separate issue
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-11-10 15:34:54 UTC
If your corporation / alliance mandates 100% CTA attendance, I take no pity on you. If your corporation / alliance is terrible at knowing who showed up for fleet fights, I also take no pity on you.

So no, I do not agree with this change to add logistics to the killmails.
Soma Khan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-11-10 16:11:50 UTC
Karadion wrote:
If your corporation / alliance mandates 100% CTA attendance, I take no pity on you. If your corporation / alliance is terrible at knowing who showed up for fleet fights, I also take no pity on you.

So no, I do not agree with this change to add logistics to the killmails.

so you think adding the ew participants to kill-mails was a mistake? well then the damage dealers don't need to be there either. i mean if your corp/alliance is terrible at knowing who showed up for the fight then why care? just tell us who got killed