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Help with salvage thiefs.
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Jenny Cameron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2011-11-05 20:36:37 UTC
Nerath Naaris wrote:
I recently had my very first ninja salvager after more than a year of playing (near Dodixie).

I actually found that quite neighbourly and a welcome change from the usual bore, what I didn´t get, however, was why someone actually bothers with a L3 mission, he must have known that a Myrm is a battlecruiser....

I had this too, I was coming back in my salvage destroyer (pre-Noctis time) after doing some L3 in my Drake and there were, all the funny little cargo containers, neatly floating in space! Smile

But I hardly ever hear people complaining about ninja salvagers, it must be a few big trade hubs or just bad luck?!
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#62 - 2011-11-05 22:16:15 UTC
Ninja salvaging is fun, because no matter what happens, the carebear ends up worse off - usually because they are terribly stupid at game mechanics and risk assessment. Smart ones are few and far between.

I mean, seriously, shoot your own wrecks? Do you not realise that many do this to ANNOY YOU or to generally prevent you making money? What's the ISK/hr of shooting your own wrecks?

Then there's the guy who was all "HAHAHAHA my noctis can out salvage your Vigil! Pirate loser!"

He was right, of course.

Even better - a ship scan revealed the lack of any tank.

Enter 1400mm artillery.

He stopped laughing.

The "problem" here isn't the mission runner, it isn't the salvage "thief" it's the incredible sense of entitlement that some of the former have. Show that, and some of us will stop at nothing to take it away.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Aggressive Nutmeg
#63 - 2011-11-05 23:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Aggressive Nutmeg
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Ninja salvaging is fun, because no matter what happens, the carebear ends up worse off - usually because they are terribly stupid at game mechanics and risk assessment. Smart ones are few and far between.

I mean, seriously, shoot your own wrecks? Do you not realise that many do this to ANNOY YOU or to generally prevent you making money? What's the ISK/hr of shooting your own wrecks?

Ok that's actually funny. A lot of mission runners don't salvage their wrecks or even stop for the loot. As they shoot the wrecks that they weren't going to stop for, they're thinking: 'Look at that poor sucker wasting his tiime scanning down mission runners. This is fun popping wrecks before he can reach them'. Big smile

They're actually 'griefng' the ninja salvager. One set of carebears griefing another, you might say. Big smile

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#64 - 2011-11-06 12:19:09 UTC
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Ninja salvaging is fun, because no matter what happens, the carebear ends up worse off - usually because they are terribly stupid at game mechanics and risk assessment. Smart ones are few and far between.

I mean, seriously, shoot your own wrecks? Do you not realise that many do this to ANNOY YOU or to generally prevent you making money? What's the ISK/hr of shooting your own wrecks?

Ok that's actually funny. A lot of mission runners don't salvage their wrecks or even stop for the loot. As they shoot the wrecks that they weren't going to stop for, they're thinking: 'Look at that poor sucker wasting his tiime scanning down mission runners. This is fun popping wrecks before he can reach them'. Big smile

They're actually 'griefng' the ninja salvager. One set of carebears griefing another, you might say. Big smile


The problem is, your fantasy that they are annoyed at you shooting your own wrecks is entirely self contained. You weren't going to salvage them anyway, but will happily stop what you were doing to stop someone else getting them? That's cool.

There's two likely scenarios here:

a) They're new and doing it for the ISK. In which case, all you're doing is stopping a new player from earning money. A new player who is being more creative than "accept mission, complete, turn in, accept mission.." You go boy! Show them new players who is best!
b) They're just looking to aggro you, in which case two things will happen. 1: they don't want the contents of the wrecks. 2: they'll be rather amused at you shooting your own stuff.

Which ever way you splice it, someone "cutting off their nose to spite their face" by shooting wrecks that "I didn't want anyway!" will always be more amusing on the side of the ninja salvager. Hint: it's why it happens.

FYI: it takes about 30seconds to 2 minutes variable to combat scan someone in a busy system. You're wasting more time shooting your own wrecks than the guy is finding you.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
#65 - 2011-11-07 06:56:25 UTC
Cryissa wrote:
Im fed up with these small, normally non corp ships that come in and steal my wrecks. I know if I just shoot him he will die but then I have the local police on me but am I right in thinking if he is part of a gang this could be just bait for his buddies as well?

You're suffering from a faulty perception, which is what is behind your fed-up'ness....

You see, according to the rules of EVE, they're NOT your wrecks. If they HAD been your wrecks, then the salvager would become red when they salvaged one, and you could shoot them. However, they're not!
NOTHING in EVE is 'yours' until it is in your hangar. Even loot in wrecks isn't really 'yours' before you claim it. If a loot-thief takes some of it, and you don't stop him, that loot isn't yours any more.
Salvage is junk and doesn't belong to anyone, not even the guy who created the wreck it was from. This is by design!

You're like a football player (European, and not a goal-keeper), who's crying his eyes out that the rules does not allow him to use his hands on the ball... Really rather pathetic...
It's a GAME... It has RULES... Those rules apply to you too, so stop being a little cry-baby about it!

EVE is a MULTI-PLAYER game. You've always got the complexity of having to handle interaction with other players, and those interactions frequently take the form of competition for resources. The game constantly challenges YOU to find solutions to problems, and doesn't solve your problems for you. They are, after all, YOUR problems.
Cryissa wrote:
Please help me I am pulling out my hair here!

Remove hands from hair! There you go!

PS: Stop doing missions in one of the main mission hubs. Not only does it give you less money for your LP, it also has the most ninja's by far... I've run missions now for 5+ years, and has seen one (yes, ONE!) ninja...
Ja'kar
Corporate Scum
#66 - 2011-11-08 14:59:58 UTC
erm so how come you cannot shoot them now?
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#67 - 2011-11-08 15:01:23 UTC
Destroy the wrecks and much sooner then later they wont have any reason to follow you around.
Meil Nomi
Gravity Salvage
#68 - 2011-11-08 15:25:58 UTC
Before I started salvaging my wrecks I would abandon them and post the bookmark in local. While I know not many would do it, I've had some interesting conversations with ninjas. Now that I am needing the salvage, I just use my alt to grab it with his Noctis that thing eats wrecks like a fat kid at McDonalds.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#69 - 2011-11-08 22:48:16 UTC
If a salvage ninja wants my wrecks, I abandon all wrecks and let them have at it.

They will warp away if all they wanted was a fight.
jhanby
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2011-11-09 08:16:12 UTC
I got my first ninja salvager the other day in a not that busy mission system. He had got half way through the Massive Attack (4) pockets. I warped in with my noctis, convoed him, said Well done and asked him to leave. He then left.

If you're nice to them, they'll most likely be nice back (if they're not looking for fight).
Luninuas
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2011-11-09 08:35:06 UTC
Really though the best way is to blast them apart, warp to station switch to your pvp ship and thrash whatever they come out in, simple
Cryissa
Caldari Navy Operations
#72 - 2011-11-09 13:19:34 UTC
Thank you all for your input and replies. I have read them all and have learned a lot. Most of it is common sense which I normally pride myself in having. The spur of the moment of that day I was well in a bad mood and angry. I have relaxed since then and approach this kind of situation in a better way for me.

Thank you all again and fly safe Smile
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2011-11-09 14:29:59 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
The "problem" here isn't the mission runner, it isn't the salvage "thief" it's the incredible sense of entitlement that some of the former have. Show that, and some of us will stop at nothing to take it away.


Down with people thinking that they should get the loot from what they kill, wtf is their problem.

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#74 - 2011-11-09 14:41:36 UTC
heh i love the guy ranting and raving about how he's going to get all cash cow'ed up when he blows up ppls mission ships... my mission ships are only ever going to be t2 fitted at best, meta 4 guns if i havent been bothered finishing up the training. So yeah enjoy lol

as for salvagers in my mission sites i've actually never seen any, some times when im just so lazy i announce to local chat that i have wrecks blue and unlooted free for all. Cause sometimes i just couldnt be bothered salvaging them all, or even looting lol.

I guess if someone did arrive and start taking junk while i was half way through a site i still wouldnt be fussed, probably would make them blue just like i used to when i was mining and had to kill the stupid npc ships that came. Unless this game is based on luck of the looter not the killer then they might get good salvage, otherwise enjoy the 30-40 coollant fluid and broken drones lol
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#75 - 2011-11-09 16:44:09 UTC
Luninuas wrote:
Really though the best way is to blast them apart, warp to station switch to your pvp ship and thrash whatever they come out in, simple

Remind me to run a locator on you when I log back on Big smile

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Iceni
Doomheim
#76 - 2011-11-09 17:00:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Iceni
Tippia wrote:
Pamela Podpopper wrote:
Solo: sitting under the noctis with your cargohold open mashing ctrl-A dragging their loot to your hold trumps the reach of the Noctii
Its plural is noctium, by the way…


So the pleural of pe*is is penium? I don't think so... Blink

My CQ door will open - Soon™
Lump Hammer
Doomheim
#77 - 2011-11-09 17:18:25 UTC
As a dedicated mission runner, I decided to try scanning down other mission runners to see how it was done. It's remarkably easy, I observed several runners from my covert ops frigate, and decided that ninja salvagers can have a good time because most mission runners leave all the wrecks lying around and mop them up at the end. So they create a salvage rich environment, ideal for ninja's.

So best practice is to not leave lots of cans lying around. There are two ways to do this:

(1) Get a second account, train the pilot to fly a Noctis and salvage with this ship whilst your main shoots the next one.

(2) Train to fly a Marauder. Yes, they have a big sig radius, but they also have a good cargo hold and 100% bonus for tractor beam range, so that gives you 40km.

Good tractor range + large cargo hold + 3 spare hi-slots = salvage as you go.

If you're killing rats faster than you can recover their wrecks, just pull in the large and medium ones, leave the small ones for the ninjas.

If a ninja warps in and there are still npc rats around, just warp out and let the ninja take the aggro. They don't like that, often they depend on the fact that you will be tanking the rats.

Oh, and don't *pop* the ship with mission loot if there's a ninja around. Just come back a few minutes later and they've usually cleared off elsewhere. Even if you do lose mission loot occasionally, it doesn't set your standiings back much. 2-3 more missions and it will have recovered.
Ikonia
Royal Amarr Expeditions
#78 - 2011-11-10 13:09:29 UTC
Ninja Salvagers are not a big problem if u have the right config. I am using 2 accounts, 1 is flying fighting vessel the other one uses an orca. 70km tractor on 2 slots, 1 salvager II on 3rd. While first char tanks and pops NPCs the orca is already tractoring and salvaging.

If one of those noobs shows up, start shooting only when wreck already has been tractored and salvaged. By 6km u start salvage and about 4 secs later the wreck is gone or if u r unlucky if remains for another few seconds, which barely happens on t2 salvagers. The noob then recognizes he has nearly no chance to get something. If he still tries and has only a small vessel id recommend to warp out, so he has to tank the ****. But in common they get with this method like 1 of 10 wrecks, and leave very fast to other sites.

Also keep the stock on market of salvage high and prices low. Then they leave soon for better areas.

Instead of an orca u can also use a Noctis. Just wait then until the rats are close enough for being tractored.

Or hire a pro salvager /salvage corp. Better to pay provision and have a better chance mfor good salvage than bugging around with those begging scumbags.

And if that is too much work, goto losec for missions. There u never have ninjasalvagers, but a few wannabe pirates with badly fitted ships and max level 3 skills like everywhere in losec :) so only about 2 higher in skills compared to ninjalooters.

Cheers