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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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What is the hook?

Author
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-07-25 13:10:39 UTC
If you thought manually flying your ship was supposed to be the main attraction to EVE you, my friend, came to the wrong game.

If you want a online game that tests your manual dexterity there's a whole host of first person shooters out there and if you want vehicles instead of people then there's also world of tanks.

The main "hype" of eve is that the player interaction always has consequences
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#22 - 2013-07-25 13:18:03 UTC
Manual flight is very possible in Eve and in fact can result in victories against even seemingly impossible odds, just saying.

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

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Je suis [?]

Trudeaux Margaret
The Scope
#23 - 2013-07-25 14:02:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Trudeaux Margaret
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Not being a twitch game is the hook for me, I'm not that competitive in twitch games, my reactions are nowhere near as good as they were 25 years ago, neither is my eyesight.

In Eve there's a sizeable contingent of players who are semi retired or retired, there are those amongst us that are not quite that old, but in their 40's and 50's. The more RTS nature of Eves control systems allow them to compete on a level playing field with all the youngsters, while reaction time is still a factor, being able to keep your cool and plan ahead are just as important.



Here here to all the above. EVE is largely about information and how you use it to form a good strategy against your opponent. Now, when combat happens, it happens fast and furious -- but if you are not prepared with the appropriate information, you might as well be toast. EVE is not a game for the kind of gamer who only likes CoD-style shootemup-and-win games.

With that said, I am still very puzzled that the OP didn't even stick around long enough to realize that manual piloting is not only possible, it is an extremely important skill to learn in both the PvP and PvE sides of the game. That's some serious level of gaming ADD right there. What?

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl

Seraph Essael
Anomalous Existence
Spatial Instability
#24 - 2013-07-25 14:23:30 UTC
You can pilot your ship manually, double click where you want to go in space and your ship heads there. There is some skill to it in pvp as it affects your trajectory, velocity etc and can help you be harder to hit/track (rather than just orbiting where their guns actually catch upto you).

Also as a side note. You are not the pilot of the ship you are flying. You are it's Captain and have a full crew compliment, including a pilot. You just give the orders. Hopefully you can stick around for a bit longer and find out EvE is an incrediable game.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."

Jayor Robb
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-07-25 16:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayor Robb
Flying your ship manually? In space?

You can do it, but this is much more realistic as a simulation.

May I suggest perhaps Starfox for snes?

You've been playing EvE for 6 years and gate camping is the best idea you can come up with? XD

Kalishka Askulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-07-25 17:49:48 UTC
Personally, I actually enjoy the movement controls. I actually feel like I'm a captain of a crew and I'm shouting at them "hard starboard, HARD STARBOARD" during combat.

By all means, it was very different that what I was expecting, but in a good way Smile
HongKongFooey X
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-07-25 20:09:09 UTC
Just to clear the air, I do now see the plethora of "hooks" in EVE. I was looking for a good space sim that included manually piloting a ship. For the old school gamers think of the old Falcon series of Flight simulators but in a sci fi setting. When it comes to manually piloting a ship, I am talking a bit more then just point and click. I was hoping to need to use a good old flight sim joystick.

Hey, no big deal, in due time I will get what I was hoping for down the road.

Good luck to all and ty for the input.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#28 - 2013-07-25 20:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
HongKongFooey X wrote:
Just to clear the air, I do now see the plethora of "hooks" in EVE. I was looking for a good space sim that included manually piloting a ship. For the old school gamers think of the old Falcon series of Flight simulators but in a sci fi setting. When it comes to manually piloting a ship, I am talking a bit more then just point and click. I was hoping to need to use a good old flight sim joystick.

Hey, no big deal, in due time I will get what I was hoping for down the road.

Good luck to all and ty for the input.

EVR would be right up your street, unfortunately it's only a tech demo Cry, if they build it, I'll buy it.

If Eve isn't what you're looking for, or it just doesn't grab you, don't be afraid to quit and try again in the future, it took 4 trials for me to get Eve, I'm 4 years in and counting.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ekhss Nihilo
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#29 - 2013-07-25 20:55:00 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Not being a twitch game is the hook for me, I'm not that competitive in twitch games, my reactions are nowhere near as good as they were 25 years ago, neither is my eyesight.

In Eve there's a sizeable contingent of players who are semi retired or retired, there are those amongst us that are not quite that old, but in their 40's and 50's. The more RTS nature of Eves control systems allow them to compete on a level playing field with all the youngsters, while reaction time is still a factor, being able to keep your cool and plan ahead are just as important.

Completely agree with your assessment. The full EVE experience is above all a thinking man's game. No slight on you ladies - I know that there's dedicated contingent of female players.

The EVE environment rewards patience, imagination and enterprise - qualities in short supply amongst many of the younger attention span-challenged players. I'm been in only since the beginning of June of this year, and I'm having a blast. The impression i get from the OP is that he doesn't quite get the value of cooperation in this game. Joining a new player friendly corp would be a very good way to get deeper into what makes the EVE universe so much fun.

As for getting ganked while missioning in low sec space, there lesson there is "Watch your six." Get lazy or distracted and you're toast in low sec. The danger is all part of the fun.

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius (AD 121-180)

Ilkahn
Ideal Mechanisms
#30 - 2013-07-25 21:10:04 UTC
HongKongFooey X wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I did not mean to turn this into an SC thread.

I truly tried EVE, I had no idea you do not manually fly the crafts.

I was disappointed that is all.





Republic Military School [RMS]
Member for 1 day





From your Profile. Don't come in here and bullshit us. This is absolutely a SC thread. Joined for 1 day only and already it sucks? Bull crap, at this point if you are a true new player you'd be asking a bag of questions.

Also to say that we don't fly these ships also tells me you haven't installed crap or at least not logged in. See your bags in the corner over there... well pick them up and head -------> (the door)
Oraac Ensor
#31 - 2013-07-25 23:05:28 UTC
HongKongFooey X wrote:
So after a decade of hype, I decide to take the plunge into Hyperspace. Woohoo, I am gonna Pirate , Bounty hunt , mine and whatever my heart desires. But, most of all I am gonna fly my spaceship across the cosmos.

Fly?

No flying?

wtf?

.....Disappointed, uninstalling now.

How do you play a space game like this where you do not actually fly the ships. All these cool awesome ships and no flying?
I have a radial to navigate my ship? No physics?

Of course you can fly your ship manually. It's an essential element of much PvP and if your ship ever gets jammed against an asteroid or structure you can either sit there forever waiting for it to unstick or you can manually fly it away.

If you don't know how to do it then you didn't pay attention during the basic pilot's licence training course, and if you can't be bothered to learn even the most basic game mechanics uninstalling is probably the most sensible thing to do.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-07-26 18:20:43 UTC
HongKongFooey X wrote:
Thanks for the reply. I did not mean to turn this into an SC thread.

I truly tried EVE, I had no idea you do not manually fly the crafts.

I was disappointed that is all.


Same thing that I thought when I started.

But after 2-3 years of playing, I know now that if they gave me the chance of making EvE into a simulator type game, I wouldn't take it. I prefer it this way.


If ALL you want is manual flying, then yeah you wouldn't want to play EvE. But there are many other reasons to play EvE besides that. If you can stand playing a game without manual flying, you should give EvE some more time.
Gaellia Bonaventure
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-07-26 22:54:42 UTC
Have you tried ship spinning?

That's where the real fun is. Big smile

Bring your possibles.

Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-07-26 23:25:09 UTC
EvE is not a first-person-shooter.

Eve is a 'Think-your-way-out-of-trouble' game.

This character is my fourth character and I've been EvE playing slightly more than two months. Though I haven't been playing EvE very long, I am an experianced gamer (started when DnD was known as Greyhawk)

I have determined every time I've lost a capsule (notice I didn't say ship), it was because I made a nood (or simply a foolish) mistake.

EvE's setup for the new player is unigue. The new player determines when he/she is ready to face the big boys and girls and is usually met by somebody willing to teach them how to die.

Also, the lack of a true tier or level system leaves the player free to express themself.

The only lack I see is the simplistic character generation, which has very little to do with gameplay anyway.
Nox Solitudo
Blue Ants
#35 - 2013-07-27 11:30:58 UTC
Hahaha and people still keep replying :)

Oh my, so many naive people in EVE :)

Ikahn seems to be the only one who realized the guy's behaviour is waaaay out of standard newbie pattern.
Trudeaux Margaret
The Scope
#36 - 2013-07-27 14:10:06 UTC
Nox Solitudo wrote:
Hahaha and people still keep replying :)

Oh my, so many naive people in EVE :)

Ikahn seems to be the only one who realized the guy's behaviour is waaaay out of standard newbie pattern.


Does this game get a lot of these types of posters when a new, competitor game is released, or is EVE's niche so defined that such an event is rare?

When I played WoW, on the forums every few months there'd be a bombardment of posters claiming that fill-in-the-blank new MMO in beta was going to kill WoW, that people were going to leave WoW in droves for fill-in-the-blank new MMO when everyone sees how awesome it is -- often in the same wording, as if they were given a template forum posting example to go by. When Guild Wars 2 was in beta, these people were particularly persistent and annoying.

The difference though, was that these posters always claimed to be WoW old-timers leaving in favor of the new, hot game on the block, instead of a potential new customer who is disappointed in the drawbacks of an old game.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl

Kehallos Hareka
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-07-28 06:39:33 UTC
"What's the hook" seems like a fair question - I'm not sure why some replies have been so surly.

Regarding reasons not to give control of the helm...

Tobias Hareka wrote:
If you could fly and target manually someone would just create aimbot and we would have a new Counter-Strike.


... seems like a convincing answer.

Also, I'm assuming "SC" referred to is Star Citizen - might be worth observing that if people want fast paced, WASD-and-mouse flying, there's a game called Start Conflict, too: that entertained me for a few hours, though I personally find that arena combat lacks depth and becomes tedious quickly. YMMV.

But "what's the hook?" is a very valid question.

Personally, I came here a couple of days ago because I loved the "explore" part of the "one universe to explore and conquer". And I'm somewhat bemused, too. As context, I'd heard a lot of Illyriad players saying that EVE was a much prettier, better established sandbox game, with a PvP-free area to avoid Illy's occasional steamrollerings. Illy, as a game, turns into a wargame after you've been playing for a few months; this, I thought, might not - actually I was right, in that this seems to push combat front-and-centre from the outset.

Example, I'm doing all the "career path" tutorials now - the Business tutorial in mission two says "go kill things", and the "explore" tutorial heavily hinted that in order to use the exploring systems "for real" I'll be doing a fair bit of PvE combat.

So, I came to the game with the wrong idea. I'm now suspecting - though I may be wrong - that the game has three hooks:
Slow paced combat, that gives you time to think and plan and react tactically. (Start Conflict gives you 3-4 modules, and is so fast that you rarely remember to use them; it looks like EVE will give lots more, but play at a pace where you can use them intelligently.)
Grinding. (I assume that mining is grinding, though I haven't been there, and I'm assuming that "exploration" is a grind/combat hybrid?)
High level politics, trade, market manipulation, deceit, spying alts, etc. - which presumably can give months of engagement for a committed veteran, but are out of the reach of us newbs.

So, OK, that's what I'm thinking, and I'm adjusting to that - starting a new character, etc. But I may be wrong. This is just what I've deduced. As a newcomer here I'd be interested in hearing what established players think "the hook" is, and I don't see that it's unreasonable to ask.
Nox Solitudo
Blue Ants
#38 - 2013-07-28 09:59:27 UTC
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
Nox Solitudo wrote:
Hahaha and people still keep replying :)

Oh my, so many naive people in EVE :)

Ikahn seems to be the only one who realized the guy's behaviour is waaaay out of standard newbie pattern.


Does this game get a lot of these types of posters when a new, competitor game is released, or is EVE's niche so defined that such an event is rare?

When I played WoW, on the forums every few months there'd be a bombardment of posters claiming that fill-in-the-blank new MMO in beta was going to kill WoW, that people were going to leave WoW in droves for fill-in-the-blank new MMO when everyone sees how awesome it is -- often in the same wording, as if they were given a template forum posting example to go by. When Guild Wars 2 was in beta, these people were particularly persistent and annoying.

The difference though, was that these posters always claimed to be WoW old-timers leaving in favor of the new, hot game on the block, instead of a potential new customer who is disappointed in the drawbacks of an old game.



I'm afraid these forums have much worse (or better?) stuff to offer, as forums are regularly used as a propaganda tool for warring superblocs, so if you ever wander to CAOD (Corporation, Alliance & Organization Discussions) you will be either disgusted or amused by an amount of badposts.

But to answer your question: it happens but not on the scale of WoW, and it's usually hidden somewhere in General Discussions, in fact this one is probably one of the the most annoying posts about a new game. Also, since people in EVE are more exposed to propaganda, lies and are forced to learn to recognize it, they usually don't answer to such posts en mass, like in WoW. (Which is why I'm really annoyed that this particular one has ended here).
Nox Solitudo
Blue Ants
#39 - 2013-07-28 10:33:39 UTC
Kehallos Hareka wrote:
"What's the hook" seems like a fair question - I'm not sure why some replies have been so surly.


Kehallos Hareka wrote:
Personally, I came here a couple of days ago because I loved the "explore" part of the "one universe to explore and conquer". And I'm somewhat bemused, too. As context, I'd heard a lot of Illyriad players saying that EVE was a much prettier, better established sandbox game, with a PvP-free area to avoid Illy's occasional steamrollerings. Illy, as a game, turns into a wargame after you've been playing for a few months; this, I thought, might not - actually I was right, in that this seems to push combat front-and-centre from the outset.

(...)

So, I came to the game with the wrong idea.(...)

Right. You came here with the wrong idea about EVE. It happens. Now, have you started a thread in troll-free section on forums about EVE not being what you've expected and nailing it with a yell about other game?

I assume no.

I may be special, but when I start to play a game I realize I have no interest to keep playing, and uninstall it (especially after one day), I don't bother to spend my time posting stuff in forums, it's a waste of time invested into game and community I will never again interact with. Especially while yelling loudly how I am totally uninstalling the game.

Now think about it: why this guy is different? What could've led him into pasting stuff that's very out of typical newbie patterns of behaviour? Considering the fact that there are people who create alts or even accounts specifically for the purpose of trolling on forums, the answer is easy: his whole post was about trolling EVE and propagating Star Citizen :)

There is nothing wrong with asking about the hook. I believe there are several threads in General Discussions and maybe even here in New Citizens Q&A asking the same thing - in a less intrusive, less trolling way. But I don't believe the OP really wanted to know what attracts us to the game.

And with that said, I'm not going to talk about my hooks, I will happily do it in a new thread or any other thread, but this thread is for me more of a "how to recognize a troll". Which is, especially in EVE, quite important, unless you want to spend the rest of your playtime pondering about your sexual orientation, ability to play the game, ability to live your life as is, or whether you should really send someone 100 mil to let him double the ISK for you.
Kehallos Hareka
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-07-28 12:26:53 UTC
Fair points.

There are a couple of interesting threads on the first few pages of General Discussion which give some insight into why those particular posters enjoy the game.

I guess in time I'll get a fuller picture.
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