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Repping And The Law Of Diminishing Returns

Author
Ratchman
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-09-08 20:38:27 UTC
There has become a bit of an over-reliance on logistics ships in this game. When I first started PvP'ing, fleets that met would invariably fight, but now they just count each other's logistics ships and run when it is not equitable. Personally, I have seen plenty of fleets where there have been more logistic ships than combat ships. I've even seen a fleet of twenty where fifteen of them were Guardians.

Logistics were meant to repair ships, but not make them invulnerable to all but the largest blobs.

To counter this, I suggest a stacking penalty. Not on the Logistic ship, but on the ship being repped.

For instance, a Drake and a Ferox enter combat with a Myrmidon and a Brutix. A friendly Scimitar places its reps on the Drake, and the Drake receives 100%. A second Scimitar places its reps on the Drake, but now the Drake only receives 75% from the second ship. However, if the second Scimitar places it's reps on the Ferox, then the Ferox receives 100%.

This means that logistics ships can rep each other with no penalty, maintaining their spider tank, but the ships they rep would suffer diminishing returns if all reps are concentrated on a single ship. Multiple logistics would be more effective managing multiple targets, but still able to rep a single target if things are desperate.

I know this does devalue logistics ships a little, but it is a worthy sacrifice to ensure that there are more engagements. At the moment, it usually devolves into one fleet fleeing another, knowing they can't break the tank. Repping is only supposed to slow the destruction of a ship, not prevent it.

As a compromise, maybe we could make the logistics ships less prone to jamming and Ewar in general, and make them harder to point and web. This makes them less effective in battle, but more likely to survive, mitigating the risk.

If you do point out any flaws in this suggestion, do try and offer a potential solution as well.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#2 - 2011-09-08 20:45:48 UTC
Ratchman wrote:
There has become a bit of an over-reliance on logistics ships in this game. When I first started PvP'ing, fleets that met would invariably fight, but now they just count each other's logistics ships and run when it is not equitable. Personally, I have seen plenty of fleets where there have been more logistic ships than combat ships. I've even seen a fleet of twenty where fifteen of them were Guardians.

Logistics were meant to repair ships, but not make them invulnerable to all but the largest blobs.

To counter this, I suggest a stacking penalty. Not on the Logistic ship, but on the ship being repped.

For instance, a Drake and a Ferox enter combat with a Myrmidon and a Brutix. A friendly Scimitar places its reps on the Drake, and the Drake receives 100%. A second Scimitar places its reps on the Drake, but now the Drake only receives 75% from the second ship. However, if the second Scimitar places it's reps on the Ferox, then the Ferox receives 100%.

This means that logistics ships can rep each other with no penalty, maintaining their spider tank, but the ships they rep would suffer diminishing returns if all reps are concentrated on a single ship. Multiple logistics would be more effective managing multiple targets, but still able to rep a single target if things are desperate.

I know this does devalue logistics ships a little, but it is a worthy sacrifice to ensure that there are more engagements. At the moment, it usually devolves into one fleet fleeing another, knowing they can't break the tank. Repping is only supposed to slow the destruction of a ship, not prevent it.

As a compromise, maybe we could make the logistics ships less prone to jamming and Ewar in general, and make them harder to point and web. This makes them less effective in battle, but more likely to survive, mitigating the risk.

If you do point out any flaws in this suggestion, do try and offer a potential solution as well.




Stop calling primary and call scatter fire, Logictics chains get easily overwhelmed when your damaging the entire fleet at once.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Ratchman
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-09-08 20:55:18 UTC
That can work in larger fleets, but with smaller fleets, and those fleets where there's a significant percentage of logistics ships, then it just doesn't work.
Sigras
Conglomo
#4 - 2011-09-08 21:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigras
I would link the various exploits of Pandemic Legion where they routinely beat fleets 4x their size by calling multiple primaries and confusing the enemy logistics, while their own well drilled logistics team carries the day, and they never run >40% logistics, but the ridiculous forums wont let me post any HTML which makes linking places impossible.

a quote from a march 5th battle report of 70 PL abaddons and 40 support against 380 -a- and company

Quote:
The Legion’s quartet capitalized on this lapse in judgment and calmly conducted the PL War Machine, overwhelming enemy logistics once again by calling four simultaneous targets.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#5 - 2011-09-09 02:47:00 UTC
Neuts, Jamming, Multiple primaries, Alpha

There are many counters, it's balanced.