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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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ECM: OP or not, it does not belong.

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Whitehound
#61 - 2013-07-24 17:54:29 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Diesel47 wrote:
You are acting as if an ECM ship sits right next to their target.

Any competent falcon will always be way away, aligned out ready to warp at any sign of trouble.


Like Muad said, the idea that any noob can roll a dice and make you worthless for 20 seconds is just a bad idea. Overpowered or not, it isn't fun, it doesn't fit in with the rest of the pvp mechanics and the majority of the pvpers (people that actually PvP, not the pretenders) don't like it.

He is not acting as if ... but the word is arguing. You have to say the he is arguing as if ....

*snip*Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited. ISD Ezwal

ECM fits in just fine. Stop voicing your frustration over a mechanic. You are not the first one to have lost a ship to a gang with Falcons.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-07-24 18:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Whitehound wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
You are acting as if an ECM ship sits right next to their target.

Any competent falcon will always be way away, aligned out ready to warp at any sign of trouble.


Like Muad said, the idea that any noob can roll a dice and make you worthless for 20 seconds is just a bad idea. Overpowered or not, it isn't fun, it doesn't fit in with the rest of the pvp mechanics and the majority of the pvpers (people that actually PvP, not the pretenders) don't like it.

He is not acting as if ... but the word is arguing. You have to say the he is arguing as if ....

*snip*Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited. ISD Ezwal

ECM fits in just fine. Stop voicing your frustration over a mechanic. You are not the first one to have lost a ship to a gang with Falcons.


So your opinion is that he shouldn't be auguring at all because of a random km.

Dieing to two skilled recons is fine and i think we all know it.

its when a 10 man gang fights another 10 man gang and one side has two ecm ships and the other teem cant no anything unless they waste all their slots with eccm and die anyway due to horrible fits. Sounds legit.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-07-24 18:19:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Actually I was arguing that claims of permajam this and permajam that are either

A) greatly exaggerated
B) very (un)lucky/lacking appropriate counter skills
C) supreme glass hulls you can quickly chase off.
D) likely all of the above

As well as the hulls that use it need attention if the mechanic sees change as they are balanced around the stacking of chance based mods.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-07-24 18:22:22 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Actually I was arguing that claims of permajam this and permajam that are either

A) greatly exaggerated
B) very (un)lucky/lacking appropriate counter skills
C) supreme glass hulls you can quickly chase off.
D) likely all of the above

As well as the hulls that use it need attention if the mechanic sees change as they are balanced around the stacking of chance based mods.


and what you are missing is that the smaller the gang the stronger ecm is. Dice be damned.

large gangs dont use it because they cant jam everything effectively by sharing targets effectively .

ever been in a 5v5 with one ecm ship? or even one per side? outrageously stupid and unfun.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-07-24 18:26:47 UTC
Again - I never said it was fun and of course it is annoying, however if appropriate ammo existed for all weapons it'd be less annoying.


The main point again is you CANNOT revisit the mechanic without doing the hulls designed to use it at the same time.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-07-24 18:48:33 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Meditril wrote:
The main problem with ECM is its very long cycle time of 20 seconds. This is longer than some fights and therefore overpowered. In my opinion ECM cycle time should be reduced to 5 seconds while also reducing cap usage to 1/4. This would make ECM more smooth. If the enemy get a hit on you than at least after 5 seconds you have another chance to lock him up if he fails his cycle and maybe do some damage before he gets the next lucky hit.

It would make ECM over-powered when fitted to frigates that are jamming battleships. The locking time then takes too long and a battleship would have no chance to lock onto small stuff.


If anyone is using RSDs and related drones sub-BS ships would also be in trouble as well. One thing I've contemplated for a couple years now is using arazus with RSDs and ECM drones, and unless ECM drones already have a faster cycle time I could see this making them much more able to lock down ships if/when ECM drones got a comparable cycle time reduction. What competent ECM and RSD pilots could achieve together starts at evil and gets progressively worse.
Whitehound
#67 - 2013-07-24 18:54:23 UTC
Shereza wrote:
If anyone is using RSDs and related drones sub-BS ships would also be in trouble as well. One thing I've contemplated for a couple years now is using arazus with RSDs and ECM drones, and unless ECM drones already have a faster cycle time I could see this making them much more able to lock down ships if/when ECM drones got a comparable cycle time reduction. What competent ECM and RSD pilots could achieve together starts at evil and gets progressively worse.

It is not an uncommon fitting. It is known as the "Gayrazu". Straight

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-07-24 23:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
dont just make posts about paper stats.

people play pvp a lot and i use all sizes of ships i wouldn't bring it up if i didn't think something was out of feel of the game and effecting an otherwise useful ship class.

i bring this up because i think as a pilot that flies all sizes of ships, it is not in keeping with the general flow of the game which i have been witness to for a while.

only your opinion matters theres no right or wrong

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Sakaron Hefdover
Perkone
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-07-25 00:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Sakaron Hefdover
How about we change it so that it has a chance to turn off highs rather than blocking the lock. EG

If I have a 20% chance to jam someone and he has 5 High slots modules, then every time the ecm cycles, about 1 module is turned off. The jam event would have to run against each module individually though. That way It keeps its random feature, and isn't completely hit or miss

Keep the long cycle time though, having to turn on modules every 5 seconds would be a pain in the ass

nvm going to post this in a new thread, carry on as normal :P
Eka Lawrencia
Different Drummers
#70 - 2013-07-25 00:34:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Eka Lawrencia
Diesel47 wrote:


You are acting as if an ECM ship sits right next to their target.

Any competent falcon will always be way away, aligned out ready to warp at any sign of trouble.



Then any competent falcon is ineffective because he can be damped down quite easily from way away, which neutralizes him.

Competence = Ineffective. Something is wrong with your arguments.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-07-25 01:46:44 UTC
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but is it not the farther you are out from the primary furball the greater the chance their is of someone MWD'ing in the opposite direction of you and the jumping back on top of you? If that is accurate then wouldn't having a frigate or two with ECM drones, tackle, and decent (not good, not great, decent) DPS potentially bring a bag of bad juju for said falcon?
Whitehound
#72 - 2013-07-25 06:43:23 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
...
only your opinion matters theres no right or wrong

Sure there is right and wrong. OP clearly states his dislike with ECM, attacks everyone who does not share his opinion, and because he thinks ECM is right? No, he thinks ECM is wrong.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#73 - 2013-07-25 07:13:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Diesel47 wrote:
Cordo Draken wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:

Rofl, doesn't change the fact that your idea really sucks.

And you can't support your idea by chestbeating about killing a 3 month old noob in akianavas a starter system some 2 years ago. Roll

Nobody suggested straight up removing ECM altogether, I don't know where you made that up.


But for old times sake, are you still sitting in hisec killing the industrials mate? Thought you'd give that up and actually do something that is atleast a little bit challenging by now... Lol


You mean like being in over 100 wars, fraking up large Coalitions & Alliances? Or like you in the arse end of nowhere doing little to nothing but crying over Falcons... Again.

CCP has made efforts to appease the un-appeasable whines of ECM. It's right where it needs to be. And it's clear that you don't want to have to consider the challenge (which really isn't that hard) of getting around ECM. After a few years I'd of thought even you would have figured it out by now.

FYI, if you're going to argue that an idea sux, why don't you provide an actual intelligent argument as to why you think so. After all isn't that why you're here? To explore and debate Ideas? Or is that as well too much of a challenge?


I don't why you are so bitter. You need to chill. Maybe you've been in hi-sec too long, because your suggestion is something somebody who never played the game would make.

But I guess station camping jita waiting for industrials to come out isn't really "playing" the game now is it. Twisted


Look man, you obviously can't read a Kill board, and as others have said, you just attack those that have knowledge on how to combat ECM, and see ECM as just another mechanic that enhances the Game. Seriously, an Arazu can RSD you to the point you can't target anything outside of 10km, but you don't see people whining about it.

Ever hear the term "Adapt or Die". *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

Might as well throw a lock on it, it's just like thousands of other going off on a whine fest.

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-07-25 07:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Diesel47
^^ Look man, I don't take carebears and hi-sec industrial corp griefers seriously with their bad and often wrong assertions. Get good and then you might be worth listening to.

Shereza wrote:
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but is it not the farther you are out from the primary furball the greater the chance their is of someone MWD'ing in the opposite direction of you and the jumping back on top of you? If that is accurate then wouldn't having a frigate or two with ECM drones, tackle, and decent (not good, not great, decent) DPS potentially bring a bag of bad juju for said falcon?


As many have failed to realize, this thread is not about how to counter ECM.


But anyways, wtf are you talking about? How are you going to burn away from a falcon and then warp ontop of it? Either you need a fleetmate already next to said falcon, a wreck or something (unlikely), or have somebody probe him out and warp you to him.

And say by some feat you manage to reach the falcon. And you also manage to lock on before he warps, he will just jam you and then leave.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-07-25 07:53:51 UTC
Cordo Draken wrote:
Seriously, an Arazu can RSD you to the point you can't target anything outside of 10km, but you don't see people whining about it.


While I can't speak for the person you're responding to I have, in fact, seen people whine about it. Fewer people mind you, but still people whining about it. I suspect, however, that fewer people whine about it because even if you're damped to 10km you can still lock up whoever's damping you if they don't maintain range properly and you can still spider-tank if your targets are close enough. If you're jammed up you can do neither.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-07-25 07:58:14 UTC
Shereza wrote:
Cordo Draken wrote:
Seriously, an Arazu can RSD you to the point you can't target anything outside of 10km, but you don't see people whining about it.


While I can't speak for the person you're responding to I have, in fact, seen people whine about it. Fewer people mind you, but still people whining about it. I suspect, however, that fewer people whine about it because even if you're damped to 10km you can still lock up whoever's damping you if they don't maintain range properly and you can still spider-tank if your targets are close enough. If you're jammed up you can do neither.


Or you can kill your tackler and leave the field aswell. Atleast there is a fighting chance.
Whitehound
#77 - 2013-07-25 08:11:08 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
Shereza wrote:
Cordo Draken wrote:
Seriously, an Arazu can RSD you to the point you can't target anything outside of 10km, but you don't see people whining about it.


While I can't speak for the person you're responding to I have, in fact, seen people whine about it. Fewer people mind you, but still people whining about it. I suspect, however, that fewer people whine about it because even if you're damped to 10km you can still lock up whoever's damping you if they don't maintain range properly and you can still spider-tank if your targets are close enough. If you're jammed up you can do neither.


Or you can kill your tackler and leave the field aswell. Atleast there is a fighting chance.

No, you cannot kill the tackler, because it is the Arazu that tackles you. It has a bonus to scram / point range.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-07-25 08:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Logibro
Whitehound wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Shereza wrote:
Cordo Draken wrote:
Seriously, an Arazu can RSD you to the point you can't target anything outside of 10km, but you don't see people whining about it.


While I can't speak for the person you're responding to I have, in fact, seen people whine about it. Fewer people mind you, but still people whining about it. I suspect, however, that fewer people whine about it because even if you're damped to 10km you can still lock up whoever's damping you if they don't maintain range properly and you can still spider-tank if your targets are close enough. If you're jammed up you can do neither.


Or you can kill your tackler and leave the field aswell. Atleast there is a fighting chance.

No, you cannot kill the tackler, because it is the Arazu that tackles you. It has a bonus to scram / point range.


Mr. no-experience at it again.

The arazu can damp without being in range to tackle you genius.

You can burn out of long point range.
Whitehound
#79 - 2013-07-25 08:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Logibro
Diesel47 wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Diesel47 wrote:
Shereza wrote:
Cordo Draken wrote:
Seriously, an Arazu can RSD you to the point you can't target anything outside of 10km, but you don't see people whining about it.


While I can't speak for the person you're responding to I have, in fact, seen people whine about it. Fewer people mind you, but still people whining about it. I suspect, however, that fewer people whine about it because even if you're damped to 10km you can still lock up whoever's damping you if they don't maintain range properly and you can still spider-tank if your targets are close enough. If you're jammed up you can do neither.


Or you can kill your tackler and leave the field aswell. Atleast there is a fighting chance.

No, you cannot kill the tackler, because it is the Arazu that tackles you. It has a bonus to scram / point range.


Mr. no-experience at it again.

The arazu can damp without being in range to tackle you genius.

You can burn out of long point range.

It is not how the Arazu is flown in PvP. It dampens the range of your sensors down, holds a long-ranged point on you so that you can neither lock or warp away.

A Falcon has to come a lot closer than an Arazu before it can point you.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-07-25 08:25:40 UTC
Whitehound wrote:

It is not how the Arazu is flown in PvP. It dampens the range of your sensors down, holds a long-ranged point on you so that you can neither lock or warp away.

A Falcon has to come a lot closer than an Arazu before it can point you.


Ok? And?