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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers

First post First post
Author
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#1541 - 2013-07-24 19:33:16 UTC
Brawler HACs:
100% Bonus to all medium (insert racial weapon type)
30% reduction in damage taken from overheating modeules OR

Kiting HACs:
100% Bonus to all medium (insert racial weapon type)
-50% MWD signature penalty.

Opinions?

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Boris Amarr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1542 - 2013-07-24 19:34:17 UTC
Why all HAC's have drone bays except Zealot? I think ship, that costs like BS or more, must have drone bay for 5 light drones!
Doddy
Excidium.
#1543 - 2013-07-24 19:40:47 UTC
You guys seem to have gotten confused, where is the minmatar missile hac? Surely the sac should be a drone boat now? or no did you backpedal on the whole weapon type thing and are just going to leave them hanging at t1?
Dysgenesis
Dhoomcats
#1544 - 2013-07-24 19:45:06 UTC
I like the idea of 3 guns with a 100% damage role bonus. It would also be nice if all HACs then had 1 (or 2) utility highs, too many of them have been removed lately yes i'm looking at you megathron).
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1545 - 2013-07-24 19:49:11 UTC
Doddy wrote:
You guys seem to have gotten confused, where is the minmatar missile hac? Surely the sac should be a drone boat now? or no did you backpedal on the whole weapon type thing and are just going to leave them hanging at t1?

They never stated they were changing the Khanid weapon philosophy. Just that it wasn't translating to the T1 ships.
Sarkelias Anophius
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1546 - 2013-07-24 19:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarkelias Anophius
Dysgenesis wrote:
I like the idea of 3 guns with a 100% damage role bonus. It would also be nice if all HACs then had 1 (or 2) utility highs, too many of them have been removed lately yes i'm looking at you megathron).



Posting to reiterate that I think this would solve, across the board, 90% of HAC issues. It would give them BC sized DPS with utility slots and high-resist, low-hp tanks and cruiser speeds.

A few ships need their speed and agility looked at, I think, but this change might justify the price tag of HACs.

I don't think that last part can be over-emphasized. CCP Rise, I'm looking at you.
JerseyBOI 2
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1547 - 2013-07-24 20:17:37 UTC
Darco Aldent wrote:
Back on topic , CCP Rise , if find the changes pretty decent , it does not make them OP and they can still be strong with the right people flying them .The more i think about it the more i do not think they need more buffs, the role bonus is pretty strong imo. Just make sure to double check the CPU and powergrid, maybe add a bit to some especially since you dont want to gimp their fit if you fit a mwd , maybe even add a fitting bonus to mwd. GL


their speed is woefully inadequate.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1548 - 2013-07-24 20:45:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Brawler HACs:
100% Bonus to all medium (insert racial weapon type)
30% reduction in damage taken from overheating modeules OR

Kiting HACs:
100% Bonus to all medium (insert racial weapon type)
-50% MWD signature penalty.

Opinions?


I feel that bonus would make for alot more blob and alpha fleets which are already good. but you never know what might be a great idea

See now this is something alot of people can debate without having walls of useless text.

Combat: (These ships will be made from close range brawling and will have higher EHP or resist, however they will be slow and have less utility)
Role Bonus: 60-100% to damage of its races close range medium weapon
the bonus will start a 60% when having Hacs trainned to Lvl I and will been at 100% when trainned to V

this will work alot like how the bonus for cpu for cloaks worked on recons or bonuses for logis.)
main reason for only close range weapons is to avoid them be OP and make more alpha fleets.

Assault: (Ships of this class would also have higher utility and are made for kitting and more support roles)
Role bonus: -60% to -100% Reduction in MWD Sig Radius
(reason for this is becuase even with a -50% bonus its sig will still be huge.)
the bonus will also start at -60% and work its way to -100 when having trainned HACs to lvl V



had a silly idea have a hac role for anti-blobs:
Special Bonus max of 20ships target lock this ship at any given time. (aplies to both friend and foe)
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1549 - 2013-07-24 20:50:59 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Brawler HACs:
100% Bonus to all medium (insert racial weapon type)
30% reduction in damage taken from overheating modeules OR

Kiting HACs:
100% Bonus to all medium (insert racial weapon type)
-50% MWD signature penalty.

Opinions?


problem is tech II are designed to be bad for overheating.

for the brawler versions i would not do one standard role bonus and instead do a race specific bonus. so lets say for the ishtar you get a thermal damage bonus for drones or for the cerb you get a kin damage bonus for missiles.

then for the kitting version i would do a uniform bonus to either agility or speed or a mix of both.

edit: i really hope we get version mark II thursday and not friday because all the conjecture is killing me.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1550 - 2013-07-24 20:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
MeBiatch wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Brawler HACs:
100% Bonus to all medium (insert racial weapon type)
30% reduction in damage taken from overheating modeules OR

Kiting HACs:
100% Bonus to all medium (insert racial weapon type)
-50% MWD signature penalty.

Opinions?


problem is tech II are designed to be bad for overheating.

for the brawler versions i would not do one standard role bonus and instead do a race specific bonus. so lets say for the ishtar you get a thermal damage bonus for drones or for the cerb you get a kin damage bonus for missiles.

then for the kitting version i would do a uniform bonus to either agility or speed or a mix of both.

edit: i really hope we get version mark II thursday and not friday because all the conjecture is killing me.



FOR THE BRAWLER
I dont think racial damage is the answer.. I think it would bee better to keep the bonus but restrict to to only the close range medium weapons: For example: Autocannons, Blasters, Heavy Assault Missles, Pulse lasersand Medium andor large Combat drones. not sentries

As well as making the ships slower... tank needs to be good since these will be your face ships that will be taking alot of damage. This would make it a really good ship for brawling and it would be worth the ISk without being OP. since the ships would have obvious weaknesses


FOR THE KITTER:
we should remove or greatly reduce the damage bonus so we dont just make more alpha fleets
As weel this bonus should only effect medium long range weapons(Rail guns, Artillery, Beams, medium soute and or sentries)
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#1551 - 2013-07-24 20:59:03 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
My first thoughts:

- Double web Deimos seems like it could be better than most are giving it credit for.

- 40% Scout Drone damage per level or something similar instead of the generic 20% drone damage bonus would promote hit and run Ishtar tactics and separate it from the plethora of cruiser/BC sized drone hulls.

- The Sac still seems a bit lackluster, a little more CPU/Cap if you want a Neut or Tinker setup or switch a high for a low if you want it buffered.

- The ASB Vaga will eat faces.

- Zealot is pretty close. Not sure what to do without OPing it.



An ishtar with a sign radius of a frigate fitted with MSE's using battleship guns (sentries) DDA's sentry rigs and 40% bonus would not be OP at all, really.



The bonus is for SCOUT drones so it wouldn't apply to sentries or heavies but thanks for reacting without bothering to read.
Doddy
Excidium.
#1552 - 2013-07-24 20:59:08 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Doddy wrote:
You guys seem to have gotten confused, where is the minmatar missile hac? Surely the sac should be a drone boat now? or no did you backpedal on the whole weapon type thing and are just going to leave them hanging at t1?

They never stated they were changing the Khanid weapon philosophy. Just that it wasn't translating to the T1 ships.


They said they were diversifying the weapon types across the board. Of course change the Khanid ones to drones would cause an uproar so they don't. Which means they cant change the second minnie ones to missiles or there would be 3 missile races, thus the whole thing was pointless. their whole rebalancing philosophy was about streamlining and now some poor minmatar dude who ground missile skills as no use for them in most t2 ships while the amarr guy suddenly has to train missiles to use half the t2 ships. Dumb as hell and all because some people want khanid ships as amarr ships.

Truth is all the amarr t2 missile ships should be drone boats and khanid navy vessells with missiles should be added (thus fixing the ridiculous get amarr navy ships from the khanid thing). But that would be too much work so they wont.

Kiting missile vaga would certainly diffirentiate well from the cynabal wouldn't it.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#1553 - 2013-07-24 20:59:09 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Dysgenesis wrote:
I like the idea of 3 guns with a 100% damage role bonus. It would also be nice if all HACs then had 1 (or 2) utility highs, too many of them have been removed lately yes i'm looking at you megathron).


With a double damage bonus, I think 4 guns would be better served, plus a utility slot, since that way they can compete with BCs without having to have bigger tanks.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1554 - 2013-07-24 21:10:04 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Dysgenesis wrote:
I like the idea of 3 guns with a 100% damage role bonus. It would also be nice if all HACs then had 1 (or 2) utility highs, too many of them have been removed lately yes i'm looking at you megathron).


With a double damage bonus, I think 4 guns would be better served, plus a utility slot, since that way they can compete with BCs without having to have bigger tanks.


HACs should have 4 guns. and the bonus for brawlers should only effect Close range medium weapons and the the Bonus for Kitting should only effect long range medium weapons
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#1555 - 2013-07-24 21:18:45 UTC
Baren wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Dysgenesis wrote:
I like the idea of 3 guns with a 100% damage role bonus. It would also be nice if all HACs then had 1 (or 2) utility highs, too many of them have been removed lately yes i'm looking at you megathron).


With a double damage bonus, I think 4 guns would be better served, plus a utility slot, since that way they can compete with BCs without having to have bigger tanks.


HACs should have 4 guns. and the bonus for brawlers should only effect Close range medium weapons and the the Bonus for Kitting should only effect long range medium weapons


Vaga is a kiter, and a Vaga with artillery would be utterly sh*t

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1556 - 2013-07-24 21:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Baren wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Dysgenesis wrote:
I like the idea of 3 guns with a 100% damage role bonus. It would also be nice if all HACs then had 1 (or 2) utility highs, too many of them have been removed lately yes i'm looking at you megathron).


With a double damage bonus, I think 4 guns would be better served, plus a utility slot, since that way they can compete with BCs without having to have bigger tanks.


HACs should have 4 guns. and the bonus for brawlers should only effect Close range medium weapons and the the Bonus for Kitting should only effect long range medium weapons


Vaga is a kiter, and a Vaga with artillery would be utterly sh*t


Then do this instead, it would make alot of the ships fitt perfectly

Combat: (These ships will be made from close range brawling and will have higher EHP or resist, however they will be slow and have less utility)
Role Bonus: 60-100% to damage of its races close range medium weapon
the bonus will start a 60% when having Hacs trainned to Lvl I and will been at 100% when trainned to V

this will work alot like how the bonus for cpu for cloaks worked on recons or bonuses for logis.)
main reason for only close range weapons is to avoid them be OP and make more alpha fleets.

Assault: (Ships of this class would also have higher utility and are made for kitting and more support roles)
Role bonus: -60% to -100% Reduction in MWD Sig Radius
(reason for this is becuase even with a -50% bonus its sig will still be huge.)
the bonus will also start at -60% and work its way to -100 when having trainned HACs to lvl V
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#1557 - 2013-07-24 21:53:38 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Baren wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Baren wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Dysgenesis wrote:
I like the idea of 3 guns with a 100% damage role bonus. It would also be nice if all HACs then had 1 (or 2) utility highs, too many of them have been removed lately yes i'm looking at you megathron).


With a double damage bonus, I think 4 guns would be better served, plus a utility slot, since that way they can compete with BCs without having to have bigger tanks.


HACs should have 4 guns. and the bonus for brawlers should only effect Close range medium weapons and the the Bonus for Kitting should only effect long range medium weapons


Vaga is a kiter, and a Vaga with artillery would be utterly sh*t


Then do this instead, it would make alot of the ships fitt perfectly

Combat: (These ships will be made from close range brawling and will have higher EHP or resist, however they will be slow and have less utility)
Role Bonus: 60-100% to damage of its races close range medium weapon
the bonus will start a 60% when having Hacs trainned to Lvl I and will been at 100% when trainned to V

this will work alot like how the bonus for cpu for cloaks worked on recons or bonuses for logis.)
main reason for only close range weapons is to avoid them be OP and make more alpha fleets.

Assault: (Ships of this class would also have higher utility and are made for kitting and more support roles)
Role bonus: -60% to -100% Reduction in MWD Sig Radius
(reason for this is becuase even with a -50% bonus its sig will still be huge.)
the bonus will also start at -60% and work its way to -100 when having trainned HACs to lvl V



Sounds good. The Assault HACs should have 400-500 DPS to be viable, but the MWD sig reduction bonus will be awesome.
Hopefully the Combat HACs will be able to push over 700 Twisted

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#1558 - 2013-07-24 22:00:27 UTC
So, what's up with the Ishtar? Why does it still have such low levels of CPU?
nikar galvren
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1559 - 2013-07-24 22:04:47 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
So, what's up with the Ishtar? Why does it still have such low levels of CPU?


Because the Dev's are secretly conducting experiments to see how hard they can make fitting a ship for its 'intended' purpose before people rage quit?
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1560 - 2013-07-24 23:13:06 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
I would totally love:

Marauder-Hardpoints, cause my HUD would look near identical to a frig's with 3 guns
(like using 3 highslots for weaponry, acting as 6 turrets, boosted by fitting boni to achieve the same damage as before)


100% damage bonus would be cool. ~50k EHP, over 750 DPS, that would be worth 150m+
Would also make epic snipers...



Fully supported, this is an epic idea indeed

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne