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Reactive armor hardner , any love ?

Author
Starbuck05
Abiding Ormolus
#1 - 2013-07-23 17:15:39 UTC
O//////


So , i am very lazy and didint bother to check for similar threads about this topic but , what do u guys think of the RAH ? i for one think its brilliant for 1v1 for example , given that u will only be shot in 1 or 2 rezistances the RAH boosts alot in them , and if u get hammered in only one its even better . but i may be stupid .

So i'm curious what u guys think , is it viable for 1v1 or 1v2 even ?


cheers

Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !

Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#2 - 2013-07-23 17:42:45 UTC
i use it instead of a 3rd EANM. Especially on my brutixes. It all depends on the enemy's ship(s). If they shoot 1 or 2 damage types your golden. If they do rainbow dmg, its just slightly worse as a 3rd EANM. Dont train the skill past lvl 1 though, it will just eat cap like mad.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2013-07-23 17:54:15 UTC
Reactive is awesome.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Whitehound
#4 - 2013-07-23 18:04:45 UTC
I hate that they can get locked in a stupid 30%/30% setting. These would be more awesome if it was not for that.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-07-23 18:14:27 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
I hate that they can get locked in a stupid 30%/30% setting. These would be more awesome if it was not for that.


never happened to me before =S

unless the target was actually shooting me with equal amounts of damage for both of course.
Whitehound
#6 - 2013-07-23 18:48:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
I hate that they can get locked in a stupid 30%/30% setting. These would be more awesome if it was not for that.


never happened to me before =S

unless the target was actually shooting me with equal amounts of damage for both of course.

You need to use it more often. It always shifts two resistances at a time. With only two incoming damage types does it take away the resistances of the other two until these are at 0% and then stops, because it cannot move more away than there is and so it gets stuck in a 30%/30% setting. It is not smart enough to then only move one resistance.

With 3 or 4 incoming damage types will it always take the resistance of at least one of the incoming types and shift it to another and then it works sufficiently well again.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-07-23 19:01:17 UTC
I don't understand the problem, if you're being shot with two damage types at equal proportions, surely you want it to be 30/30 on each?
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-07-23 19:14:43 UTC
When getting shot by 2 damage types one does the greater portion of the damage so mathematically having 60% resistance towards the main damage and 0% towards the secondary = less daage taken then an even 30/30 resistance
Zane Lowe
Our Sanctum
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2013-07-23 19:14:48 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I don't understand the problem, if you're being shot with two damage types at equal proportions, surely you want it to be 30/30 on each?


Most of the time, the proportions aren't totally equal. For example, if you're being shot by scorch, you'd really rather have 50/10 EM/thermal resist than 30/30
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-07-23 20:32:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
Ciyrine wrote:
When getting shot by 2 damage types one does the greater portion of the damage so mathematically having 60% resistance towards the main damage and 0% towards the secondary = less daage taken then an even 30/30 resistance


The reactive hardener already does that, but for example if you're being shot with something that is exactly even (like void for example) it would be better for the hardener to be 60% vs either thermal or kinetic not 30/30

And the reactive hardener can change in 3% increments and decrements I've seen it with 57/3 proportions before.
Whitehound
#11 - 2013-07-23 21:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Ciyrine wrote:
When getting shot by 2 damage types one does the greater portion of the damage so mathematically having 60% resistance towards the main damage and 0% towards the secondary = less daage taken then an even 30/30 resistance


The reactive hardener already does that, but for example if you're being shot with something that is exactly even (like void for example) it would be better for the hardener to be 60% vs either thermal or kinetic not 30/30

And the reactive hardener can change in 3% increments and decrements I've seen it with 57/3 proportions before.

It shifts in 2%-steps and two resistances at a time. If there is only 1% left to shift will the last one be a 1%-shift.

It can certainly take on any setting, but because it always wants to shift two at a time will it get locked into a resistance pattern that does not exactly match the incoming damage pattern.

I will give an example... You are being shot at with hybrid antimatter charges, size L with 20 thermal + 28 kinetic damage. The RAH will start with all-15% and changes to 13%/17%/17%/13% on the first cycle, because there is no EM and explosive damage. This repeats on until it is 1%/29%/29%/1% and finally 0%/30%/30%/0%. At this point can it no longer move resistances from EM and explosive to thermal and kinetic, and it gets stuck. It will not detect that there is more kinetic than thermal damage and therefore will it not shift into a more ideal 25%/35% setting.
Only if now the antimatter charges stop and your ship is being shot at with kinetic missiles or perhaps Wasps will it start shifting resistances away from thermal to kinetic, because there is no further thermal damage.

It means that you can see it taking on various settings, but it is often not a setting that matches the incoming pattern perfectly. In case of Scorch as Zane pointed out is there quite a difference between the incoming damage pattern and the resulting resistance pattern of the Reactive Armor Hardener.

It is however not a major issues, but an imperfection we need to accept and not expect too much from it. It still does a good job when it provides a 30%/30% resistance or any other setting. It also means that when in doubt an EANM II can be the better option.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-07-23 21:26:41 UTC
I see what you mean now, I guess this only applies to ammunition with multiple damage types?
Whitehound
#13 - 2013-07-23 21:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I see what you mean now, I guess this only applies to ammunition with multiple damage types?

The RAH always looks at the damage after resistances. The lock ups can easily be verified with lasers and hybrids, but can happen with anything as soon as the two lowest incoming damages types have 0% resistance.

With three damage types can it alternate between them if these are not too different and will then work its way slowly to a perfect setting (or rather alternate between two or three nearly ideal settings).

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-07-23 23:42:52 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
I see what you mean now, I guess this only applies to ammunition with multiple damage types?

I wouldn't say only. Not when you're including both lasers and hybrids. And faction drones, since they have dual damage types

Plus every projectile ammo except Depleted Uranium and EMP only has two damage types, which means they also trigger the problem. Though one might argue that since barrage has a very close exp/kin split that it doesn't matter.

The only weapon systems left are: Non-faction drones, missiles and smartbombs.

Question: Lets say the incoming damage is one huge em/thermal hit, with lots of exp hits in between (laser ship with minmatar drones). How would this shift the RAH resistances around ?
Whitehound
#15 - 2013-07-24 00:13:14 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
Question: Lets say the incoming damage is one huge em/thermal hit, with lots of exp hits in between (laser ship with minmatar drones). How would this shift the RAH resistances around ?

What matters is the cycle time of the RAH and how much damage is incoming between each cycle. As long as lasers and warriors deal damage within a cycle will it shift the resistances to EM/thermal, and for each time only the warriors hit will it shift some of the EM/thermal resistances onto explosive, only to move it back again as soon as the lasers hit again.

With Pulse Lasers having a relatively high fire rate will there be many shifts towards EM+thermal and only few going towards explosive. Beam Lasers have a lower fire rate and here will one see more likely an equal amount of shifts to each sides.

You will have to test it to know for sure.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2013-07-24 00:41:30 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Hesod Adee wrote:
Question: Lets say the incoming damage is one huge em/thermal hit, with lots of exp hits in between (laser ship with minmatar drones). How would this shift the RAH resistances around ?

What matters is the cycle time of the RAH and how much damage is incoming between each cycle. As long as lasers and warriors deal damage within a cycle will it shift the resistances to EM/thermal, and for each time only the warriors hit will it shift some of the EM/thermal resistances onto explosive, only to move it back again as soon as the lasers hit again.

With Pulse Lasers having a relatively high fire rate will there be many shifts towards EM+thermal and only few going towards explosive. Beam Lasers have a lower fire rate and here will one see more likely an equal amount of shifts to each sides.

You will have to test it to know for sure.



Preeeetty sure almost all guns cycle faster than a Reactive.. But it is a good point vs stuff like arties.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#17 - 2013-07-24 04:37:50 UTC
If the mod didn't get that 30/30 split going it would be way over powered!

Maybe they did it the way they did it for a reason. Shocked
Starbuck05
Abiding Ormolus
#18 - 2013-07-24 05:31:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Starbuck05
Either way i believe it is a must have for solo armor tanking ships. I like it !

Just because i am blond does not make me stoopid !

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#19 - 2013-07-24 08:05:22 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
If the mod didn't get that 30/30 split going it would be way over powered!

Maybe they did it the way they did it for a reason. Shocked


IIRC the reason had more to do with calculus cost than the functionality being OP.

Looking forward to the T2 version, meanwhile I fit the RAH on pretty much every non-frig I fly.

.

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2013-07-24 08:24:12 UTC
Basically if your ship has the cap for it the RAH is great.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

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