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Rail Ship - lvl4's
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Admiral Bosch
No Fuhks Given
#1 - 2013-07-23 00:52:41 UTC
Looking for a lvl4 ship to sports rails with. I can fly gall and caldari BS but it seems i can't seem to find a nice balance between tank and spank. Either i end up with too much spank or too much tank.

Does anyone have any decently priced setups?


(plz no domis. -i don't want to fly space boots.)
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2013-07-23 01:15:06 UTC
What have you been looking at? Personally I like how the Hyperion is looking for rails fits right now, but the NMega is highly competitive here too. In either case you're basically looking at two TCs, heavy cap booster, prop mod in the mids, three or four (faction) magstabs plus tank in the lows. NMega seems to want a coproc. Hyperion gets a utility mid for ECCM, sebo, another TC, etc.
Admiral Bosch
No Fuhks Given
#3 - 2013-07-23 01:20:06 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
What have you been looking at? Personally I like how the Hyperion is looking for rails fits right now, but the NMega is highly competitive here too. In either case you're basically looking at two TCs, heavy cap booster, prop mod in the mids, three or four (faction) magstabs plus tank in the lows. NMega seems to want a coproc. Hyperion gets a utility mid for ECCM, sebo, another TC, etc.



yeah i was very interested in the mega.
im just looking for a lvl4 rail build that i can use on lvl4 missions and have a decent time with them.

i do have gallente bs 5 which would be nice on the hyperion but i odn't think the ship bonus would beat the extra gun on the mega for dps.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-07-23 01:44:24 UTC
Admiral Bosch wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
What have you been looking at? Personally I like how the Hyperion is looking for rails fits right now, but the NMega is highly competitive here too. In either case you're basically looking at two TCs, heavy cap booster, prop mod in the mids, three or four (faction) magstabs plus tank in the lows. NMega seems to want a coproc. Hyperion gets a utility mid for ECCM, sebo, another TC, etc.



yeah i was very interested in the mega.
im just looking for a lvl4 rail build that i can use on lvl4 missions and have a decent time with them.

i do have gallente bs 5 which would be nice on the hyperion but i odn't think the ship bonus would beat the extra gun on the mega for dps.



The Hype at Gal BS V has a 50% damage bonus essentially giving it 9 turrets worth of damage
The Mega has a 25% ROF bonus, which means a 33% damage boost (look up how critical shots work) which means its slightly better a 9.3 effective turrets....if the signature and tracking envelope of your target is favorable.

In other words they are going to be very very close, however the Hype is going to have a LARGE tank advantage with the tank bonus.
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-07-23 02:51:26 UTC
The hyperion and the navy megathron are pretty comparable for PvE work. They each have their advantages, bot overall they're quite comparable, and quite a bit superior to the standard megathron IMLTHO. Navy megathron's a bit faster, has better gun damage application, more EHP, and better electronics while the hyperion has better capacitor output, better (potential at least) drone damage application, and a better minimum tanking value. Absolute tank and gank values between the two ships given similar setups are in the range of 2% difference or smaller.

All things considered, however, I don't think I could see my way to using a standard megathron at this point in time. Being able to field 4 sentries and 5 light drones with the old one was workable, but having its drone capacity dropped to 75mb3 really hurts it, at least for me.
Admiral Bosch
No Fuhks Given
#6 - 2013-07-23 03:02:34 UTC
hmm so looks like hyperion it is....

any decent fit suggestions? nothing too fancy
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-07-23 03:41:35 UTC
[Hyperion, L4]
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x5

The AB and the LAR are the fanciest things on it, and they can be downgraded if you want. Just be aware that if you downgrade the LAR too much you might need to either sacrifice an omni link for another CR2 and swap a CCC for a tank rig or swap a DDA2 for another hardener or something. That exact setup is also right at the ship's CPU limit, 747tf/750tf.

Dropping the railguns to 350mm to save CPU or dropping the launcher and its whopping 44 rDPS would be a good way to fix that, but aside from an automatic targeting system (for more target locks, not for doing its job) you won't be able to fit much in the last high slot. For that matter dropping to a rapid light missile launcher or a heavy launcher to work on close-in smaller targets might not be a bad idea either, though given that it's one launcher and how much damage your (light) drones will already be doing to those targets it's not necessarily a good idea either.

If either your drone skills aren't all that great or you don't want to run the hyperion as a hybrid drones/raiglun platform (as in both are equal weapon systems and not drones being clearly subordinate to railguns) then you might try something like:
[Hyperion, L4]
Core X-Type Large Armor Repairer
True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Core X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x5

The same concerns and cautions about downgrading the LAR too far apply here as well.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#8 - 2013-07-23 05:06:04 UTC
Cap booster and DLA to allow you to choose wardens for missions with stuff that is further away. IMO cap booster + aux nanos better fit than 5 cap mods and an X type, and no the cap boosters don't run out if you have half a clue. faction items are for cpu saving, T2 rig wasn't expensive when I bought mine, still probably isn't.

[hyper - serp]
[hi]
6x 425mm railgun II
1x drone link aug 1 (save cpu)

[mid]
1x 100mn AB II
1x omni tracking link II
1x f90 positional sensor subroutines (important - the lock range of a hyper is awful)
1x tracking computer II
1x medium electrochemical booster I (cap 800)

[low]
1x large armor repairer II
1x serpentis armor kinetic hardener
1x serpentis armor thermic hardener
3x magnetic field stabilizer II
1x drone damage amplifier II

[rigs]
2x large aux nano pump i
1x Large Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II

[drones]
5x garde II
5x hobgoblin II
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-07-23 08:51:38 UTC
I agree with the above ^

stop scrub fitting your ships with cap rechargers and CCCs and learn how to use a cap booster: opens up so many more possibilities with fitting.

Art of Explosions
Whitehound
#10 - 2013-07-23 10:42:35 UTC
I suggest you look into a dual-fitting setup with the Hyperion. Dual-fitting means that you use one ship with the same rigs for two different fittings and switch between these depending on the mission. This lets you adjust your ship very easily with the fitting tool and you will run missions faster.

One fitting is a Blaster + MWD fitting for small mission pockets or when long distances need to be past. It has got a very high DPS together with drones: 1228 DPS. The heavy vampire helps with cap and reaches out for 25km to support MWD and the armor tank, which reps with up to 350 eHP/s. Piloting needs a bit of training if you have not yet flown such a fitting yet, but it is a lot of fun to fly.

[Hyperion, PvE Blasters + MWD]

Damage Control II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Thermic Hardener II (mission specific)
Armor Kinetic Hardener II (mission specific)
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Void L
Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Ogre II x5

For a longer range with a slower speed is the Railgun + AB fitting. It deals up to 991 DPS out to 40km together with sentries and its tank can rep with up to 260 eHP/s.

[Hyperion, PvE Railguns + AB]

Damage Control II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II (mission specific)
Armor Thermic Hardener II (mission specific)
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

100MN Afterburner II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Cap Recharger II

425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Automated Targeting Unit I

Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5
Garde II x5

Know that when you go for a dual-fitting that you can save various ammos with each fitting. So when you switch the fitting with the fitting tool will it load the right ammo into the ship, too.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Jack Morrison
Team Liquid crp.
#11 - 2013-07-23 11:53:11 UTC
Kronos or Vindicator not an option ? I think it's pretty much the ships you are looking for

Looking for a group to pew with ? Have a chat with me.
Darlew Demian
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-07-23 12:15:43 UTC
What about lvl 4s in a rokh?
As i already have one for incursions i wouldn't like to spend again some money if it isn't necessary
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-07-23 13:38:22 UTC
I've seen Rokhs used for level 4's (though they're not the most effective) - but incursions require a different fitting philosophy than L4's, unless you've got someone in a Basilisk or Scimitar flying on your wing in the L4's. You might be able to get away with using an MJD-sniper setup on a Rokh, using a sort of "range tank", but there's still a good chance you'll need a shield booster, even at long range, given the sort of standoff range you can face from Serpentis and Gurista rats. You might end up having to re-rig the Rokh for L4's, or get a second hull for missioning.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Yo'Shi Enderas
Mercurial Avionics
#14 - 2013-07-23 20:58:27 UTC
Darlew Demian wrote:
What about lvl 4s in a rokh?
As i already have one for incursions i wouldn't like to spend again some money if it isn't necessary


I use a Rokh for lvl4's, it's a bit of a cap hungry ship and hard to get cap stable. Personally i prefer it to be cap stable and i usually mission together with a friend in wormhole downtime so it's just for the lulz.

Below fit has 696 dps, 894 tank (of which 288 sustained). It has an optimal of 57km and 78k EHP. If you switch the large ASB with a medium c-type you can get to 8minutes of cap which is enough to clear most missions and still have a 615 tank (of which 426 sustained)

[Rokh, Missioning]
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Pith C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith C-Type Large Shield Booster
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith C-Type EM Ward Field

425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-07-23 21:00:39 UTC
that fit....
i dont even

Art of Explosions
Shereza
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-07-23 23:11:59 UTC
Rokh is passable with railguns.
[Rokh, Railgun]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

X-Large Shield Booster II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
EM Ward Field II
Tracking Computer II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

[Rokh, Railgun MJD]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Large Shield Booster II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

I'd rather go with blasters though.
[Rokh, Blaster]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

100MN Afterburner II
X-Large Shield Booster II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Tracking Computer II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800

Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Null L

Large Hybrid Ambit Extension II
Large Hybrid Locus Coordinator II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II

For s***s and giggles, however, you could always do this:
[Rokh, New Setup 4]
Reactor Control Unit II
Power Diagnostic System II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

100MN Afterburner II
X-Large Shield Booster II
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I


Hammerhead II x5
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#17 - 2013-07-23 23:20:50 UTC
As long as we're throwing random fits on the wall, here's what I'd likely do:

[Hyperion, odyssey missions]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
ECCM - Magnetometric II

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
[empty rig slot]


Mid is utility like I said above. I guess if you went with an omni and dropped a magstab or two you could do the rail/drone thing, but honestly I'd use an NDomi if I really wanted to do that.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#18 - 2013-07-24 00:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
Zhilia Mann wrote:
As long as we're throwing random fits on the wall, here's what I'd likely do:

[Hyperion, odyssey missions]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
ECCM - Magnetometric II

425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]

Large Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
[empty rig slot]


Mid is utility like I said above. I guess if you went with an omni and dropped a magstab or two you could do the rail/drone thing, but honestly I'd use an NDomi if I really wanted to do that.


This is real close but will have you hurting on the tank side from time to time.

I'd drop the 4th mag for an adaptive resistance plating. (( Small bit of anti gank ))

Put a faction NOS in the high slot. (( Save some cap boosters! ))

T2 the AB. (( More speed! ))

Switch a TC for a TP. (( Helps drones too! ))

Drop the hybrid burst rig down to T1
Add aux nano accelerator.

Make sure you use Thorium, antimatter, javelin.

Vespas as your secondary drones will trash frigs with a TP.

Meta 4 the ECCM. (( Less cap, cpu. More time to overheat ))

Good luck.


Results:

Max DPS will drop from 1151 to 1071. (( Down 7.5% ))

Tank will go up from 363 to 512. (( up 41% ))

Faster with more cap. 5700 extra health. Slightly cheaper.

This is using javelin ammo and a 50/50 damage split for exp/kin with all L5's.

Disclaimer:
Damage % can vary up and down due to drone flight time not calculated in and drones having a larger % of the damage as you switch to other ammo types. Just rough % based on EFT numbers.