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stealing from yellow wrecks akin to can flipping.

Author
william nsk Gengod
paranoid monkey Corporation
#21 - 2013-07-23 02:00:11 UTC
irony is im an english teacher by trade dont like to bring my work home :)
Oraac Ensor
#22 - 2013-07-23 03:25:05 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
This is quite friendly compared to other forms of legal grief. One of my favourites is finding a way to young character in a Battleship doing hisec anomalies. First you steal some loot for the flag, then you start bumping. He will have a hard time getting away, and an annoying flashy bumper right next to him. Chances are he will engage out of frustration with his failfit shiny, thinking your ship to be no match for a Battleship. You can even add some surprise logi in the mix if you don't mind those getting Suspect flagged too.

Wow! That must make you feel like a real big man. Roll
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-07-23 05:15:15 UTC
We don't play submarines in space to feel like big men. We do it for entertainment.
tayjor
Regional Building Company
#24 - 2013-07-23 10:32:08 UTC
Ganking/can-flipping/griefer are general terms to describe a life of crime.

Keep doing it. It adds character to the game. Besides hisec miners and mission are not immune to the dangers of EVE.
Oraac Ensor
#25 - 2013-07-23 11:15:12 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
We don't play submarines in space to feel like big men. We do it for entertainment.

Picking on those who can't fight back is only entertaining for bullies.
Ilkahn
Ideal Mechanisms
#26 - 2013-07-23 12:41:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Ilkahn
william nsk Gengod wrote:
Hi im just looking for some advise to see if im the right or the wrong.


So my base system at the moment is Gelfiven in hi sec. Im hanging round here learning the mechanics of exploration doing some ratting. Making my first moves into low sec etc.

My question is about stealing from yellow wrecks (not salvaging)

Quite often when i have a fly round the belts looking for some rats i steal from the npc wrecks that the miner have created.
today i was told i was ganking/ can flipping/ and basicly a bad boy for stealing their stuff and they are 10 day old characters etc. And they are trying to buld up their new corporation and they are protecting their investment etc. blah blah blah.

And actually the thing that wound me up that i should ask permission before stealing from them.

I understand that rookie systems its a no no to try to blag them into shooting through stealing their stuff and this wasnt my intention.

but if they shoot at me i will shoot back you know.

so 1, Is gelfiven a `rookie` system and is what im doing not acceptable and im going to get my wrist slapped by CCP

2, Do theives normally knock on the door and ask permission before they steal.

3, Am i within in my rights to continue what im doing ?

4, What do the people here think about what im doing is it wrong or right or normal or if the miners should lighten up a little

as i see it its a free universe i can steal but i have to understand the consequences which i do. dont do the crime if you cant do the time etc.


If your system isn't on this list, it's free reign my friend, let fire and ruin fall. If it is in these systems though please be kind to our newbies. Besides it's much more fun to watch them rage when you kill their first battleship later on in a mission site somewhere.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems

Can flipping / baiting

This refers to the practice of (ab)using the Criminal Flagging System to cause a fight between yourself and an unsuspecting party in high-security space. See main article for more.

Can flipping is officially considered griefing only in Rookie Systems. Some people do it just for fun, without the actual intent to cause the feelings of harassment and frustration in the victim. It is, however, also a typical form of griefing in the classic sense.


Starter Systems
• Amarr ◦ Chaven
◦ Sehmy
◦ Emrayur

• Caldari ◦ Kisogo
◦ Todaki
◦ Amsen

• Gallente ◦ Duripant
◦ Bourynes
◦ Cistuvaert

• Minmatar ◦ Ammold
◦ Ryddinjorn
◦ Hulm
Elleren
Wormlife Freeport Operations
Wormlife
#27 - 2013-07-23 15:41:12 UTC
william nsk Gengod wrote:
Hi im just looking for some advise to see if im the right or the wrong.


So my base system at the moment is Gelfiven in hi sec. Im hanging round here learning the mechanics of exploration doing some ratting. Making my first moves into low sec etc.

My question is about stealing from yellow wrecks (not salvaging)

Quite often when i have a fly round the belts looking for some rats i steal from the npc wrecks that the miner have created.
today i was told i was ganking/ can flipping/ and basicly a bad boy for stealing their stuff and they are 10 day old characters etc. And they are trying to buld up their new corporation and they are protecting their investment etc. blah blah blah.

And actually the thing that wound me up that i should ask permission before stealing from them.

I understand that rookie systems its a no no to try to blag them into shooting through stealing their stuff and this wasnt my intention.

but if they shoot at me i will shoot back you know.

so 1, Is gelfiven a `rookie` system and is what im doing not acceptable and im going to get my wrist slapped by CCP

2, Do theives normally knock on the door and ask permission before they steal.

3, Am i within in my rights to continue what im doing ?

4, What do the people here think about what im doing is it wrong or right or normal or if the miners should lighten up a little

as i see it its a free universe i can steal but i have to understand the consequences which i do. dont do the crime if you cant do the time etc.


1. I do not know

2. Not normally, but it has been known to happen similarly in even real life.

3. It is Eve. Is there anything you cannot do?

4. My personal opinion purely ---> If you are in rookie system, it is WRONG. Otherwise, and understanding Eve, I would say it is right and normal.

I would also point out that p[laying as you claim you do would give me the right if I were prowling around in such a system and saw you go all flashy, to attack and kill you and take all your toys.

But of course, you might kill me instead, etc. Or a bunch of us might jump you. Or a bunch of you might jump us.

Its Eve.

Honor is earned.

Oraac Ensor
#28 - 2013-07-23 15:44:56 UTC
Ilkahn wrote:
If your system isn't on this list, it's free reign my friend, let fire and ruin fall. If it is in these systems though please be kind to our newbies. Besides it's much more fun to watch them rage when you kill their first battleship later on in a mission site somewhere.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems

Can flipping / baiting

This refers to the practice of (ab)using the Criminal Flagging System to cause a fight between yourself and an unsuspecting party in high-security space. See main article for more.

Can flipping is officially considered griefing only in Rookie Systems. Some people do it just for fun, without the actual intent to cause the feelings of harassment and frustration in the victim. It is, however, also a typical form of griefing in the classic sense.


Starter Systems
• Amarr ◦ Chaven
◦ Sehmy
◦ Emrayur

• Caldari ◦ Kisogo
◦ Todaki
◦ Amsen

• Gallente ◦ Duripant
◦ Bourynes
◦ Cistuvaert

• Minmatar ◦ Ammold
◦ Ryddinjorn
◦ Hulm

Your list is incomplete.

These are also included:

Career Tutorial Systems

Conoban
Deepari
Pasha

Akiainavas
Jouvulen
Uitra

Clellinon
Couster
Trossere

Embod
Hadaugago
Malukker

Sisters of Eve epic arc system

Arnon
Karynn Denton
Gwrachod Nos
#29 - 2013-07-23 16:54:10 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
We don't play submarines in space to feel like big men. We do it for entertainment.

Picking on those who can't fight back is only entertaining for bullies.


Fortunately every player has the ability to reship and fight back, creating entertainment for all parties involved \o/

Karynn Denton

Caravan Master

Oraac Ensor
#30 - 2013-07-23 17:09:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Karynn Denton wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
We don't play submarines in space to feel like big men. We do it for entertainment.

Picking on those who can't fight back is only entertaining for bullies.

Fortunately every player has the ability to reship and fight back, creating entertainment for all parties involved \o/

A new player would have very little ability to fight back against an experienced player no matter what he reships to.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#31 - 2013-07-23 18:05:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Karynn Denton wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
We don't play submarines in space to feel like big men. We do it for entertainment.

Picking on those who can't fight back is only entertaining for bullies.

Fortunately every player has the ability to reship and fight back, creating entertainment for all parties involved \o/

A new player would have very little ability to fight back against an experienced player no matter what he reships to.

A new player can still learn from it though, even if it's "don't do that again". If a newbie gets ganked the best thing they can do is to ask the ganker what they can do to avoid being ganked or how they might improve their odds next time. Some will be "stfu noob", others will be helpful, with the right attitude a newbie will sometimes get reimbursed, taken under a wing etc.

TBH the best time to get ganked is when you're a newbie, ships are cheap (they may not seem it, but they are) so are clones. The sooner that newbies learn to regard their ship as a tool, not a persona, the better, for both them personally and the game as a whole.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Oraac Ensor
#32 - 2013-07-23 18:14:11 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
A new player can still learn from it though, even if it's "don't do that again". If a newbie gets ganked the best thing they can do is to ask the ganker what they can do to avoid being ganked or how they might improve their odds next time. Some will be "stfu noob", others will be helpful, with the right attitude a newbie will sometimes get reimbursed, taken under a wing etc.

TBH the best time to get ganked is when you're a newbie, ships are cheap (they may not seem it, but they are) so are clones. The sooner that newbies learn to regard their ship as a tool, not a persona, the better, for both them personally and the game as a whole.

Agreed, but I still think that sort of behaviour is a bit lame.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-07-23 19:25:33 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
We don't play submarines in space to feel like big men. We do it for entertainment.

Picking on those who can't fight back is only entertaining for bullies.


Show me on this doll where James315 touched you..
Oraac Ensor
#34 - 2013-07-24 08:32:57 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
We don't play submarines in space to feel like big men. We do it for entertainment.

Picking on those who can't fight back is only entertaining for bullies.


Show me on this doll where James315 touched you..

Oh, dear. What a sad person you must be. Roll
Ned Taggart
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-07-24 20:11:33 UTC
If this has been said, forgive me, I only read the first few responses, but here is how I see it.

No you aren't doing anything wrong from a rules point of View. You can take anything that is yellow and who ever it belongs to can legally seek retribution within a certain time frame without CONCORD interference.

Now that said, If you approach a belt, and see a yellow wreck with loot in it, and someone is there with mining lasers going while their drones are actively engaging a rat, it would seem Piratey to flip the loot while they are engaged in combat. Its legal but you are taking advantage of them being otherwise occupied.

If, on the other hand, you approach a belt and see 2 yellow, loot filled wrecks and someone is mining away with them nearby, I say you can take them with a clear conscience. If they really wanted them, they would have taken them by now. You might even ask them if they can release them. I have had miners do this for me with a smile. The yellows turn blue.

If you are a nice person, but like being a pirate, you might convo them after you loot it and say that this is a valid way of making money in Eve and perhaps let them know what they could have done to prevent you from doing it.

Also, as long as you are doing this, don't forget to salvage the empty yellows. There's money there too.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#36 - 2013-07-24 20:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
This is quite friendly compared to other forms of legal grief. One of my favourites is finding a way to young character in a Battleship doing hisec anomalies. First you steal some loot for the flag, then you start bumping. He will have a hard time getting away, and an annoying flashy bumper right next to him. Chances are he will engage out of frustration with his failfit shiny, thinking your ship to be no match for a Battleship. You can even add some surprise logi in the mix if you don't mind those getting Suspect flagged too.

Wow! That must make you feel like a real big man. Roll


On the contrary. I myself am nowhere near confident that my Cruiser is going to win from a Battleship. Plus, he's allowed to bring friends to kill the Suspect(s). Your moral objection is largely irrelevant as long as I do not purposefully grief a single person or sit in a starter system. I keep it at one kill for the loot, and a friendly chat with some advice as long as the pilot stays friendly. Maybe I share some ISK if I really feel bad for the guy. Usually they come to to the conclusion that what they did was at their own risk, they wisen up, and heck... I've recruited more people by shooting their ship then by promising them riches! Usually we exchange some mails and part ways. Counts for lowsec too, and the anoms are harder to tank making it more exiting. Lol

First off, yes it's a lesson, and a mild one at that. The player primarily encounters the phenomena 'bumping' and notices he can't warp off. Preventing to get bumped is a lifesaver outside of hisec should you fly a bulky battleship. Most players are as smart to not even shoot a Suspect in the first place. It's rare that this kind of annoyance turns into an actual fight for me, I'm not exactly trying to come across as a newbie. I come across as someone that knows the agression rules and once you get players out of their comfort zone, they get more prone to pry for answers. Inquisitive players get a reward. ISK farming dopeheads that don't pay attention get their ship respectfully euthanized. Twisted
william nsk Gengod
paranoid monkey Corporation
#37 - 2013-07-25 01:49:33 UTC
Ned Taggart wrote:
If this has been said, forgive me, I only read the first few responses, but here is how I see it.

No you aren't doing anything wrong from a rules point of View. You can take anything that is yellow and who ever it belongs to can legally seek retribution within a certain time frame without CONCORD interference.

Now that said, If you approach a belt, and see a yellow wreck with loot in it, and someone is there with mining lasers going while their drones are actively engaging a rat, it would seem Piratey to flip the loot while they are engaged in combat. Its legal but you are taking advantage of them being otherwise occupied.

If, on the other hand, you approach a belt and see 2 yellow, loot filled wrecks and someone is mining away with them nearby, I say you can take them with a clear conscience. If they really wanted them, they would have taken them by now. You might even ask them if they can release them. I have had miners do this for me with a smile. The yellows turn blue.

If you are a nice person, but like being a pirate, you might convo them after you loot it and say that this is a valid way of making money in Eve and perhaps let them know what they could have done to prevent you from doing it.

Also, as long as you are doing this, don't forget to salvage the empty yellows. There's money there too.



I honestly wouldnt steal if they were engaged in combat i would help take out the rats and then loot and salvage.

Im not in space were the rats are strong. I take your point about telling them how they can stop me, Its a good idea.
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