Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I am likely, by your definition a Carebear. I have played EVE off and on since beta and spent almost all of my time in High-Sec space aside from a some time back in 2003-2004 with my other characters first corp. At that time the average server population was about 5000. From my point of view there are several barriers to PvP for your average Carebear.

No Early Intro to PvP:
The first barrier is that new players are not introduced to PvP right away. Solving that would be a huge first step. Perhaps a new tutorial and a new approach to Faction Warfare which I will get in to later.

Hard Divisions of Space:
The second barrier is the current High-Sec, Low-Sec, Null-Sec tier approach to separating space. These hard lines, which are typically separated by just a few choke point systems, are a huge deterrent for players thinking of making the transition to the more PvP oriented areas a space.

One solution to this barrier would be to open some new avenues in to Low-Sec, which allowing greater opportunity to avoid gate camps. This will **** of gate campers, but to them I would ask, would you rater sit in your ambush and wait for those few adventurous players willing to risk the ambush or have a larger player presence in Low-Sec to mix it up with?

A second solution to this barrier would be to eliminate the tiered separation of space in EVE. A more gradual reduction of security tied to the systems security rating, would help ease players in to PvP. Either more tiers or the elimination of tiers would work. If there was a smoother reduction in the penalties for PvP, combined with a reduction of actual and perceived safety as the systems security ratings decrease. This would give players a more gradual exposure to PvP.

No Reward for the Risk:
The last barrier I see is that there is little to no reward for participation in PvP, particularly casual or spontaneous PvP, which is what I think the OP was talking about. I get isk and modules when I kill NPC, and I can generally kill many NPC before I start to put myself at much risk. PvP comes with a lot of risk, most of it currently is very one sided towards those already embracing the PvP aspects of EVE, and if I win I might get a a few modules, some cargo, and some isk if the other player had a bounty.

I really thing the solution here is to revamp faction warfare. My current understanding of FW is that it has become dominated by large groups and those which are more organized dominate. Perhaps we could change FW is a few ways to make it more appealing. Perhaps disputed systems should have a large NPC presence at each factions entrance in to disputed systems to allow safe entry and then shift the focus to specific sites within the system.

Another change could be to build FW missions which put players in to these contested sites to perform either specific tasks or to just combat players from the opposing faction. These sites could also have ship restrictions so that players can be matched with other players of similar or equivalent ships. So a L1 FW mission would send players to sites restricted to Frigates and Destroyer class ships, a L2 FW mission would send players to site with ship restrictions of Battle Cruisers and lowers classed ships, L3 FW missions restricted to BS and lower class ships and L4 would be anything goes.

Thanks man, that made me lol in rl.
Some people, jeez.

This character used to PvP. After joining EVE I quickly moved to low sec, mainly because the missions there paid MUCH better. But being in low sec PvPing was easy to get and fun to do. The corp I'm in flew regular roams and much fun was to be had. Missions became a means to finance the inevitable losses.

Then carriers were introduced. It became harder and harder to get a fair fight, because when you thought you had an even fight someone lit a cyno and anyone who could not run away died.

I don't mind dying, you win some, you lose some. But being totally blabbed every time you think you have a decent fight, that absolutely takes the fun out of it.

THAT is the main reason I don't really PvP any more - it's no fun for me. If you want to get people into PvP, you need to give them something back, not just blow their ship up.

I guess no one read my entire post... Not one person commented on micro tournaments... But moving on...

Eve is Eve, for all it's faults, drawbacks, and blessings I had no intention of trying to suggest "fixing" any part of the game. I think I can best describe the concept of what I was trying to formulate in my post with a comparison to eating you meal...

When you sit down at a restaurant, your handed a menu (Eve and an understanding of it) and then get the chance to order. Suppose while your browsing the menu and a stranger beside you gets his meal and it looks good (ships blow up in pve and pvp and with EVE graphics - it always looks good). So now order, will you choose your own item? Will his choice influence yours? It may not change your mind but if it does influence you, and when applied to the masses, more PvP will occur because there more focus on it from the players.

It also help with immersion because even though your relatively safe, you get to "see" what's happening in lowsec and the disparity between non-secure and secure space at least in looks become more similar.

Micro-tournaments were just a way to get players to hone their PvP skills and get reputation for their alliance outside of wardecking and insecure space. They can't go to war because it puts their industrial at risk and I think insecure space takes too much time out of pve and runs a risk of disappointment that will make them bitter about wasting their time. This risk is magnified when you don't know the terrain, the people in it, and the logistics of getting a good fight on top of other issues that strongly devoted pve players that dabble in pvp may encounter.

It also helps with immersion because it brings younger players parallel to top veterans by letting them participate. I'd say let the micro-tourny champion, if they have not been to an actual eve tourny before, have their choice of ships for one round and a free ticket to the competition on top of being ranked against each other while it progresses indefinitely (ie, wins and loses from over 30 days ago don't count towards rankings).

I don't need PvP in EVE because I don't like strategies. I can tolerate (certain parts of) EVE PvE - and that's it. There is no method to change my personal preferences about strategy games.

And now I'm logging back into APB Reloaded to shoot people and dream about EVE with WiS module and 3rd person view shooting...

edit: (certain parts of)

I agree, it requires some translation in order to make sense.

As a metaphor, I use this:

For PvP, substitute gamble.

Lots of people go to casinos, and many of them enjoy the thrill of wagering on the various games of chance offered.
There is also a good number of people who cannot afford to play these games, as in many cases they will not realistically keep winning. They simply run out of money.

This does not mean the games are not fun, but it does mean not everyone can play in a practical manner.

Now, the just for fun variety of games does exist, where no money is at risk. These games have an initial purchase price, and can be played in the safety of a familiar environment.

Should the casino offer more just for fun games, or the home player suddenly have unlimited money, this arbitrary obstacle to play can be overcome.

I'll PvP when they do two things:

1. Remove learning implants.

2. Reduce clone costs.

Then all I'm risking is actual combat worthy assets when I roam. Not other stupid crap to keep my SP in check and not fall behind. Until then, I feel dirty missing out on potential SP. Its basically what we pay for, and not having it maxed feels like a waste of money. SP = Gametime = $$$.

Seriously, the best way to get ANYONE to PvP, is to give them an incentive to fight.

Every "vulnerable" target in a system can either warp to a POS and safe up the moment someone comes into local, or are 5+ million EHP structures that require a 30 man gang to even think about engaging. We need small-scale targets, that a single pilot can take out.

Example: Moon Mining Deflector - A device your enemy deploys near your moongoo harvesting POS that steals a percentage of the moongoo harvested from the moon each cycle. Give it like 10k EHP, so a solo pilot in a AF can take it out within minutes.

Example: Player-Created Incursion Device - A device you anchor and online. If you successfully online it, it creates incursion-like effects in the system for several hours (lower bounties, stronger rats, lower dps, etc). The locals have 15 minutes to stop it from onlining, or they deal with irreversible "incursion effects" for several hours thereafter.

Ok. Youre clever. I get it.

But who are we talking about, pvpers or carebears.

Im holding up oranges here and you still wanna say apples.

That fact still remains, remove or cheapen learning implants and you will see more carebears leaving their high sec caves.

As for cheapening or removing learning implants,

NEITHER option must be retconned.

For cheapening you could say new emergent technology has brought cost down.

So think of paying 5 mill for a full slot layout of plus 5s. (that sounds decent to me)

For removal, you could say another Yulai metting has deemed all learning implants illegal (insert reason)

Nothing has to be change in the history of EVE for this or that to happen