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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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The return of the Deep Space Probe

First post
Author
Alundil
Rolled Out
#1 - 2013-07-21 20:18:18 UTC
Issues:
The mystery of space is missing.
There is absolutely 0 (zero) reason to drop probes in a great number of systems in space because a quick check/un-check of the show anomalies box in any system will tell you, instantaneously, whether there are sites or signatures to find.
Scanning is too easy to perform.
Scanning, at this, point is far too easy. I understand that CCP wanted to open this gameplay mechanic up to a wider audience. In this, you have succeeded. However to the detriment to those pilots that spent time perfecting skills and mechanics.
Exploration is too easy to perform.
See above.

Proposal:
Re-purpose the Deep Space Probe we all know and love in order to address the issues listed above.

Create new exploration sites that can only be located using Deep Space Probes.
These sites will not show any indicators on the scanning overlay or in the scanning results window.
These sites will spawn in any systems below 0.6.
The lower the truesec of the system the higher the likelihood that these sites spawn.
These sites will be higher level data/relic/combat sites with the regional NPC denizens.
There is a possibility that an out of region NPC type is present (should be from the enemies of the regional NPC types)
These sites can spawn up to 16AU away from the nearest celestial

Deep Space Probes will scan small pockets of deep space with highly precise scans.
1. Max scan range = 2 AU
2. Min scan range = .1 AU
3. Requires Astrometric Range Finding/Pinpointing/Acquisition LVL 5

Benefits:
New and varied exploration content
New content for dedicated and highly skilled scanning professionals
New reason to scan most systems in New Eden
Vast swaths of previously empty and "never thought of" space now have potential uses, not just relatively small pockets around celestials.
Possible uses of staging points to wage war on inattentive inhabitants.
Because of the probe strength and pinpoint accuracy it would be possible to scan cargo containers floating in space.


There are a lot of interesting possibilities opened up by the addition of these new mechanic.

Comments and suggestions are welcome.
Thank you

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#2 - 2013-07-23 13:44:45 UTC
Bump

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#3 - 2013-07-25 03:29:10 UTC
bump

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#4 - 2013-07-30 16:45:44 UTC
Bump

And a further idea to add to the "could be" for Deep Space Probes.

Deep Space - those places where no capsuleer can easily go. Not because we can't fly there slowly but because we are, for all intents and purposes, limited to where we can fly based on randomly spawning signatures and anomalies. These random locations in deep space are used for a variety of things such as safe spots, perches for d-scan purposes, storage areas. We all use these for at least the first two. It's the last one, storage, that I'd like to focus on.

For those trusting enough in the vagaries of the RNG this provides an almost foolproof location for storing anchored containers with any manner of items inside. For others who would like to find these Easter eggs floating, tantalizingly close, in space there is little chance of success if there are no in space points to bounce from (i.e. signatures, anomalies) once it has been determined that the searched for item is out of line with any other points.

Proposal:
Deep Space Probes can scan down/detect cargo containers in space (of all types).
Same high skill requirements as listed above.

Case in point and the in-game justification of proposal:
I was scanning signatures in a wormhole and happened to see a small standard container on d-scan. This is an abandoned system. One off-lined tower with in-capped mods. No activity other than roams catching people ratting as far as I can tell.
I start identifying the nearest celestial to begin the hunt. Check.
I find a signature relatively in line the container and begin doing the warp/bookmark game. Check.
I narrow the angle of possible space to 15 degrees and am 5.7 million kilometers away. ( I have the precise distance down to 1km) Check.
It is this point where the object is no longer in line with any points in space (It was at one point, obviously).
Simple math will now tell me that I can forgo searching for this item as it would take over 13 days to fly to it at 5 Km/s.
These things in space should be scannable. We can scan down mobile warp disrupters in space. There's no valid in-game mechanic reason why we should not also be able to scan down containers.
Small Mobile Warp Disrupter - Volume in space is 65m3 - Scannable
Small Standard Container - Volume in space is 100m3 - Unscannable

Please look into addressing this CCP

I'm right behind you

Shvak
Shvak Corporation
#5 - 2013-07-31 09:59:40 UTC
Great idea, we definately need reasons to train better scan skills
Alundil
Rolled Out
#6 - 2013-08-04 00:10:49 UTC
Bump

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#7 - 2013-08-05 17:37:33 UTC
bump

I'm right behind you

Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#8 - 2013-08-06 09:01:27 UTC
DSP with a max range of 2AU? How is that deep when even the Core Probes have 16AU ranges, and combat probes have 32? The old DSP had a range of 256AU, that's what made it useful for surveying the system in one go.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#9 - 2013-08-06 16:32:46 UTC
Jason Itiner wrote:
DSP with a max range of 2AU? How is that deep when even the Core Probes have 16AU ranges, and combat probes have 32? The old DSP had a range of 256AU, that's what made it useful for surveying the system in one go.


Deep as is it scans "deeply" (read: thoroughly) areas/items of space that are too small for the regular/faction core probes to scan down.

This is an opportunity to delve into some "deeper" (see what I did there?) scanning mechanics and at the same time allowing CCP to reuse exiting art assets while simply altering some of the database variables related to those said assets.


It's already been stated, pretty clearly, by CCP that the DSP offering entire system scans has gone the way of the Dodo and is not coming back. We're stuck with the GUI system scan and other attendant changes to the scanning system. However that doesn't mean we have to lose the DSP as an item forever. We can re-purpose it and that is precisely what I propose to do.

It becomes the tool for highly skilled/geared explorers who wish to spend the time and expend the effort looking for things outside of the standard 4AU - celestial paradigm (the easy mode stuff). This could be, as mentioned, signatures that don't show up on the system GUI scan or other things entirely (such as scanning down cans and such that are visible on d-scan but can't be probed using currently existing scanner probes.

The number of options/gameplay choices that CCP could decide to implement utilizing this possible mechanic are many and far reaching.

I'm right behind you

Alundil
Rolled Out
#10 - 2013-08-08 07:10:19 UTC
Bump

I'm right behind you

Luke Frazza
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-08-08 07:32:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Cura Ursus
r u --SNIP-- serious ur bumping this? stfu.

Alundil wrote:
Bump



4. Bumping outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channels is prohibited.

The bumping of posts to alter the order of the thread listing on a forum is prohibited outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment forum channels. Within the EVE Marketplace section of the forums, each forum category has its own rules regarding acceptable bumping for sales threads clearly listed in the stickies.

Similarly the Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channel also has its own rules. Please be aware that the rules vary from forum to forum. Please review the sticky threads in these forum channels for specific details.


Evasion of the profanity filter by sneaky spelling is also prohibited.
-- ISD Cura Ursus
Alundil
Rolled Out
#12 - 2013-08-08 15:44:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Cura Ursus
Luke Frazza wrote:
r u --SNIP-- serious ur bumping this? stfu.

Alundil wrote:
Bump



4. Bumping outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channels is prohibited.

The bumping of posts to alter the order of the thread listing on a forum is prohibited outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment forum channels. Within the EVE Marketplace section of the forums, each forum category has its own rules regarding acceptable bumping for sales threads clearly listed in the stickies.

Similarly the Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channel also has its own rules. Please be aware that the rules vary from forum to forum. Please review the sticky threads in these forum channels for specific details.



It's an idea that I'd like further discussion on. Nothing more nothing less.

I was unaware of the prohibition on simple "bump" posts in this section of the forum - didn't click that other link. I have now. Thanks for the enlightenment there. If you've got more to say then I'll gladly entertain that discussion while you "alter the order of the thread listing".

Perhaps instead of "rule" posting you could offer critiques or thoughtful comments (in the spirit of this forum you know) aside from "r u --SNIP-- serious....." and other assorted drivel. You should know that posting like that is:
1) Silly and ridiculously immature/ignorant [pro-tip use all of the keyboard keys and some grammar perhaps]
2) there are some F&I rules that I *was* aware of, namely:
"This is a breeding ground for ideas. If someone has an idea, listen to it. If you don't like it, think about why. Constructive feedback is good."

Or worst case:

So angry..tears mmmmm...oh, and thanks for the bump.

Twisted


Edited out snipped profanity.
-- ISD Cura Ursus

I'm right behind you

ISD Cura Ursus
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#13 - 2013-08-08 16:03:07 UTC
Bumping is allowed
But only in certain spots.
This place is not one.


Bad language is bad
Please stop, and don't go around
The filter at all.



Do not bump outside of market forums.
Do not try to walk around the profanity filters.

In the future, please report posts that you think are in violation, don't be a vigilante and try to fix problems that way.


relevant rules:
"7. Use of profanity is prohibited.

The use of profanity is prohibited on the EVE Online forums. This includes the partial masking of letters using numbers or alternate symbols, and any attempts at bypassing the profanity filter."

"14. Bumping outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channels is prohibited.

The bumping of posts to alter the order of the thread listing on a forum is prohibited outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment forum channels. Within the EVE Marketplace section of the forums, each forum category has its own rules regarding acceptable bumping for sales threads clearly listed in the stickies.
Similarly the Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channel also has its own rules. Please be aware that the rules vary from forum to forum. Please review the sticky threads in these forum channels for specific details."

ISD Cura Ursus

Lieutenant Commander

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#14 - 2013-08-08 16:12:40 UTC
if some game mechanics are ******, they should be fixed because they're ******, not left alone to reward players that have mastered them anyway.

as for safespot storage containers, I don't think they're particularly important one way or the other. They're rarely used, and I don't thinking finding them would do much for the finder.

Also, Deep Space Probes were known by their massive scan radius. You're suggesting to both make these special deep space signatures invisible but all these new probes, but also only give the new probes a 2au radius. That doesn't even make sense.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Alundil
Rolled Out
#15 - 2013-08-08 18:03:36 UTC
Batelle - please explain what game mechanic you find subpar regarding this topic. Are you saying that the scanning mechanic is bad? Are you saying that the probing feature is bad? Are you saying that there should be no reason to master a specific skill/mechanic?

To your point about the safe spot storage containers:
Their usage might not be important to you as you don't use them in that fashion. Neither do I. However, there are a lot of people that do apparently. Simply based on the frequency that I find them on d-scan (estimate about 50% of the wh systems I scan have at least one on scan and not in a POS). So with that said, there are people using them. As for what might be in them if it were possible to find them.....the content might be empty or it might not....thus finding these would be at least as valuable as hacking cans in data/relic sites.

To your point on the massive scan radius:
Yes, that is what they were known for. Key word being known. Now the ship itself performs a scan function of the entire system and CCP deems that sufficient replacement to the DSP. I disagree with them and have said so loudly to them and to CSM reps. However, it's pretty safe to say at this point the DSP as we knew them is not going to return. Given that, why not take the opportunity to reuse existing assets for a similar (yet different) purpose. Ergo my suggestion. It makes sense in the context of scanning for small items, almost imperceptible variations in energy/mass/activity readings of distant areas of space (i.e. "DEEP") and/or insert EVE lore friendly rationale.

And yes, I am suggesting, precisely, to make new signature types (ie: exploration content) only discoverable via these probes. The space in EVE is beautiful and yet so predictable that there is no reason, at all, to ever deploy probes if your ship scanner says there's nothing on scan. Vast (almost endless) swathes of space lay unused and never accessed. Ever. All because "things" can never spawn more than ~4AU from a celestial.

This is a sad waste of space, in my opinion, and I'd love to see CCP do something with it.

It's as if CCP supplanted or replaced the "DSP problem", basically -people know, too easily, exactly what's in the system without ever exploring said system, with an equally bad, albeit more visually fancy, system that requires people to scan signatures to then ignore the same ones that they were ignoring before. EVE shouldn't be about "hit butan (checkbox in this case) & receive candy (signature IDs)" There should be extra/hidden/special content for those who are curious enough or dedicated enough to seek it out.

Odyssey was an exploration "nerf" in the sense that it became even more trivially easy to do. I want to add some variety/spice/difficulty into the mix for those who are interested.

I'm right behind you

Bigg Easy
EzDuzIt
#16 - 2013-08-12 17:29:44 UTC
Yes please. I would luv this tbqh
Alundil
Rolled Out
#17 - 2013-08-12 19:31:05 UTC
Here's an idea from Veldaran that could also give great usage potential to a reincarnated DSP as I proposed.

Veldaran's Wormhole Exploration and Profession topic

Between his idea to revamp the sites and the site spawning mechanics plus my ideas to increase both the difficulties of finding some of those sites and the variability of their locations this could really help make w-space more interesting (with strong parallels to k-space as well).

I'm right behind you

Copper Rei
Copper Corp
Aggressively Passive Bears
#18 - 2013-08-14 04:50:39 UTC
Alundil
Rolled Out
#19 - 2013-08-15 04:09:15 UTC
Thanks Copper - you've got some interesting ideas yourself. Hopefully we can get some traction on things that some variance back into exploration and scanning.

I'm right behind you

DSpite Culhach
#20 - 2013-08-15 04:23:35 UTC
It's a small universe at the moment, and seriously, scanning difficulty took a bullet to the head cause I can suddenly scan stuff waaaay too easy, I almost miss swearing at when I was shrinking down spheres and a blip would disappear.

Maybe if the universe got _bigger_ and the outlaying regions got much harder, then very high difficulty sigs would make sense, but right now it just feels off.

Handing info to players in hisec does make some sense for "training" purposes, but shouldn't every game mechanic have degrees of difficulty? We go from L1 missions to Sleepers and Incursions, but exploration seems pretty "flat" by comparison. To me anyway. I'd rather have my ass handed to me by spawns when I fail a hack then the current spew system, heck, I's settle for a point blank trap explosion :)

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

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