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Is the guessing of a password on Eveboard illegal?

First post
Author
Lucius Exitius
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#161 - 2013-07-19 18:46:25 UTC
API keys are part of the game, Eveboard is an extension of the game, we use it to do background checks, if someone gives me their api key I can do with it whatever I want, give it away, use it to gather intel, etc. Eveboard is a place where you POST (There are no accounts on eveboard) your api key, you can help protect it by putting a password but since its an extension of the game its no different then guessing a POS password. If you want to make it harder for people to get your api key then put a better password on it. Ill reiterate what I said eariler and that eveboard is just an api reader its a tool and IS part of the game. So if lying, cheating, scamming, hacking passwords (unless its to get into the actual account) its all legit its in the game there for part of the universe. Maybe Chribba can put a disclaimer on his site clarifying this but its really doesn't matter since its all public information.
gr ant
Perkone
Caldari State
#162 - 2013-07-19 18:49:37 UTC
I like all the pseudo lawyers up in here, it's almost like you guys think something will come of this, its cute.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#163 - 2013-07-19 19:10:38 UTC
[quote=Lucius Exitiusbut since its an extension of the game its no different then guessing a POS password.[/quote]

This is where you're getting confused. It's related to the game, but is not an extension of it.

Just think of it this way, the rules of EVE, such as it being OK to guess a POS password, only apply when dealing with specific EVE services, specifically, those through the game client once logged in. Even then there are major restrictions, such as not trying to get access to other peoples accounts, name cloning etc.

Sooner or later a GM might pop up and make it quite clear that CCP has no control over third party services, and that their EULA and TOS has no relevance to the services they provide.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#164 - 2013-07-19 19:22:25 UTC
Chribba wrote:
As far as eveboard goes, that doesn't really give any details to that kill apart from when the skill ran out which sure could give a theory in what timeframe a pilot would log on to change queue. Plus they had been monitoring him for quite some time it appears.

Is it illegal, from my view no it's not illegal in that sense, but not really wanted either, but should there be a need for me to implement additional security measures to prevent brute force (than those already in place) I will do so. Guessing passwords for 60 seconds I don't think will trigger any police action (especially not in the case of eveboard, and if there had been substantial load I'm sure my monitors would have gone haywire). PS. I don't at all condone.. condole(?) or approve of this technique at all, just giving my view on how I feel about it.

If anything, I'd rather see the whole ISboxer setup being more of a grey zone in this case.

/c



+1 on this

+ players can also put other password on their Eveboard account then 0000 or 12345 and crap like that, duno how many bits PW secured Eveboard is but imho enough.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Lucius Exitius
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#165 - 2013-07-19 19:22:52 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
[quote=Lucius Exitiusbut since its an extension of the game its no different then guessing a POS password.


This is where you're getting confused. It's related to the game, but is not an extension of it.

Just think of it this way, the rules of EVE, such as it being OK to guess a POS password, only apply when dealing with specific EVE services, specifically, those through the game client once logged in. Even then there are major restrictions, such as not trying to get access to other peoples accounts, name cloning etc.

Sooner or later a GM might pop up and make it quite clear that CCP has no control over third party services, and that their EULA and TOS has no relevance to the services they provide.[/quote]


Then how do you read the api keys in game? YOU POST YOUR API on EVEBOARD POST being the key word there.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#166 - 2013-07-19 19:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
Lucius Exitius wrote:
Then how do you read the api keys in game? YOU POST YOUR API on EVEBOARD POST being the key word there.


You don't. The game itself has no method of displaying information from API keys other than with the integrated web browser, which is reliant upon services provided by third parties.*

Just because you can access it using the in game browser does not make it part of the game.

* Unless you like reading XML.
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#167 - 2013-07-19 19:45:56 UTC
NSA already has all this info and is laughing at you for thinking your **** isn't public.
Lucius Exitius
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#168 - 2013-07-19 19:51:21 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Lucius Exitius wrote:
Then how do you read the api keys in game? YOU POST YOUR API on EVEBOARD POST being the key word there.


You don't. The game itself has no method of displaying information from API keys other than with the integrated web browser, which is reliant upon services provided by third parties.*

Just because you can access it using the in game browser does not make it part of the game.

* Unless you like reading XML.


I guess you missed the part about it being a post, you post it for ALL to see, if you give your api key to someone in game with the password they can send that to whomever they want and its not illegal so there is no difference. Plus even if it was illegal, CCP won't replace his ship and no agency would even give a rats ass because its just a game and its part of a game. He scanned down where he was, logged in, and was able to catch him. He got killed by being stupid and putting his api on a public area for all to see. With what people are trying to argue, even if he didnt have a password then people would be breaking the law just looking at it, but a password being there doesnt change anything. Everyone who sells characters uses that password, ive used the password to see the post for someone who forgot to post the password in their sales post does that make me a criminal?
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2013-07-19 20:11:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Kat Ayclism wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
So you condone illegal activities. That sucks =(

To be clear, a player did something that he should not have.

To be clear, he quite succinctly said he did.

To be clear, he said he didn't even need the information he did access.



You know, to be clear.

To be clear, someone drove a forklift up your rearend.

To be clear, your familiarity with any country's law, let alone many countries' and on varying legal specialties, is fuckall and you're now talking through the resulting gaping wound.

To be clear, I downloaded the keys to that forklift, stuck them in til one worked, and am now inserting large numeric art sculptures back into the afforementioned gaping void in a series quite similar to your SSN.

Just ~bein' clear~



To be clear, he said he did it.

I don't even need more than 5 words to trump your pitiful attempts to troll a response.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#170 - 2013-07-19 20:11:48 UTC
Got linked thread.

Expected ~~internet lawyers~~

Left satisfied.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#171 - 2013-07-19 20:13:52 UTC
Kat Ayclism wrote:
Zaxix wrote:
Any intentional access to obtain information to the detriment of the account holder should be considered unauthorized."

I'm no big city lawyer but I believe you just soiled yer britches.



Man let's go comparing this to all kindsa ****, rather than facing the reality that we lack social skills and need to find a healthy hobby that doesn't permanently alienate us from people that might otherwise enjoy our company if only we'd step from the dark corners of our dingy, cheeto-hazed, redbull-can-filled, vaugely sperm-smelling rooms from which we wile away the hours furiously slapping out long diatribes about internet space pixels and the surrounding statutory and legal precedents.



And this was done in just 1 sentence folks! I think we have a badass amongst us.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#172 - 2013-07-19 20:15:39 UTC
gr ant wrote:
I like all the pseudo lawyers up in here, it's almost like you guys think something will come of this, its cute.



Agreed, they should go back to driving their forklifts =)

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

grrlet
Leper Outcast Unclean
#173 - 2013-07-19 21:00:38 UTC
The more important question is, does he even know that his TItan was killed being that he was logged off when it happened and he only logs on to skill????!!!!!! ShockedTwisted
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#174 - 2013-07-19 21:03:18 UTC
No different than arm chair quarterbacks.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#175 - 2013-07-19 21:06:54 UTC
Wow, this thread is almost 10 pages and full of internet lawyers.


Ban OP, gas thread, and nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure to get all the internet lawyers.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#176 - 2013-07-19 21:17:41 UTC
And here we have proof that a large majority of Eve players will happily discuss minutiae until it is well past relevance.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/

Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#177 - 2013-07-19 21:33:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Zaxix
Kat Ayclism wrote:
Zaxix wrote:
Any intentional access to obtain information to the detriment of the account holder should be considered unauthorized."

I'm no big city lawyer but I believe you just soiled yer britches.

Man let's go comparing this to all kindsa ****, rather than facing the reality that we lack social skills and need to find a healthy hobby that doesn't permanently alienate us from people that might otherwise enjoy our company if only we'd step from the dark corners of our dingy, cheeto-hazed, redbull-can-filled, vaugely sperm-smelling rooms from which we wile away the hours furiously slapping out long diatribes about internet space pixels and the surrounding statutory and legal precedents.

You're quoting me, quoting the lawyer who writes that blog. The statement is his, not mine. As he is an actual lawyer and you are a cheeto-eating, redbull-drinking, Onanistic recluse, I'm going with his opinion over yours.
Alua Oresson wrote:
And here we have proof that a large majority of Eve players will happily discuss minutiae until it is well past relevance.

It's EVE. What did you expect?

Bokononist

 

Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
#178 - 2013-07-19 21:39:16 UTC
This reminds me of how I guessed the password of a secure container in space once. it was "8888" or something like that. Got 10 billion worth of what was apparently a sweatshop's loot. (The guys were stashing it in containers so as to guard their assets against the inevitable bans).

Anyway, gaining access to someone elses account on a computer system might be illegal, but even so, this falls outside CCP's jurisdiction anyway. Case closed.

╦......║...╔╗.║.║.╔╗.╦║.╔╗╔╦╗╔╗

║.╔╗╔╗╔╣.╔╗╠..╠ ╠╗╠╝.║╠ ╠╝║║║╚╗

╩═╚╝║.╚╝.╚╝║..╚╝║║╚╝.╩╚╝╚╝║.║╚╝

Got Item?

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#179 - 2013-07-19 22:08:00 UTC
Entity wrote:
This reminds me of how I guessed the password of a secure container in space once. it was "8888" or something like that. Got 10 billion worth of what was apparently a sweatshop's loot. (The guys were stashing it in containers so as to guard their assets against the inevitable bans).

Anyway, gaining access to someone elses account on a computer system might be illegal, but even so, this falls outside CCP's jurisdiction anyway. Case closed.




I think hacking a container in a game, or even corp theft for that matter all done in game, is perfectly legal.

It's when you are out of the game, at a browser or terminal, and crack into an account, that things get dicey.


But like i said before, it all depends on who you are (at least in my country). If you are with the "in" crowd you can get caught hacking phones and have your own show on CNN still or run an entire news network. If you are not in the "in crowd" or perhaps have publicly gone against it, then even the hacking of a secure container might land you in trouble. At the least, even if a judge throws it out later, the "message" is sent by the SWAT raid you get regardless of the crime or the charge.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Lucius Exitius
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#180 - 2013-07-19 22:19:43 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Entity wrote:
This reminds me of how I guessed the password of a secure container in space once. it was "8888" or something like that. Got 10 billion worth of what was apparently a sweatshop's loot. (The guys were stashing it in containers so as to guard their assets against the inevitable bans).

Anyway, gaining access to someone elses account on a computer system might be illegal, but even so, this falls outside CCP's jurisdiction anyway. Case closed.




I think hacking a container in a game, or even corp theft for that matter all done in game, is perfectly legal.

It's when you are out of the game, at a browser or terminal, and crack into an account, that things get dicey.


But like i said before, it all depends on who you are (at least in my country). If you are with the "in" crowd you can get caught hacking phones and have your own show on CNN still or run an entire news network. If you are not in the "in crowd" or perhaps have publicly gone against it, then even the hacking of a secure container might land you in trouble. At the least, even if a judge throws it out later, the "message" is sent by the SWAT raid you get regardless of the crime or the charge.



Except eveboard doesn't have accounts, you post your API key on it. Having a password doesn't make it an account, no different then password protecting an excel or word document, its not illegal. IT would be like saying reading this post is illegal, its here for all to see.