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Does anyone have good solo fits for Omen or Thorax ?

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Whitehound
#21 - 2013-07-18 20:41:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
i dont think you mean versatile, I think you mean mobile.

Versatility implies it can do many roles and a shield fit rail thorax cannot do that.

I do not mean versatile in the sense that one can go mining with it. But one can respond to more situations better, which makes it versatile for PvP and when one does not put oneself into one corner only.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-07-18 20:46:31 UTC
Well then the dual prop thorax clearly wins in that regard, it's not shut down by a scram and isnt buttraped by missile ships.

Art of Explosions
Whitehound
#23 - 2013-07-18 20:55:13 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Well then the dual prop thorax clearly wins in that regard, it's not shut down by a scram and isnt buttraped by missile ships.

Why would you want to shut its MWD down? It has no speed with or without it. Unless you get greedy is the ship not a threat.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#24 - 2013-07-18 21:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Well i'd take any of your fits in any of mine >_>

And stating that the 800 plate thorax would kill the 1600 thorax pretty much excludes you from this conversation because you clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Me and my corp fly these kinds of ship every single day, we lose and kill hundreds every month. . I have a pretty firm grasp of what works and what doesn't. (Although i do get surprised from time to time obviously)




You are right on one account though, the fits i posted are made around low sec, if you want to go to 0.0 in your thorax you will want to put a repper on it.

I'd go 800 + MAAR personally.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Whitehound
#25 - 2013-07-18 21:56:36 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
And stating that the 800 plate thorax would kill the 1600 thorax pretty much excludes you from this conversation because you clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I have looked at the numbers and the two are pretty close, I give you that. But it is like I said, one switches to Null and pokes the shields from 15km-20km. If it is not shield-tanked then one can soon see how strong the armor tank is. At some point will you need to show how fast you can fly and make a first couple of shots, which then will give away your weapons. Or say what are you going to do against a ship out of your reach? Do you just sit there and watch your ship die?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#26 - 2013-07-18 22:33:12 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
And stating that the 800 plate thorax would kill the 1600 thorax pretty much excludes you from this conversation because you clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I have looked at the numbers and the two are pretty close, I give you that. But it is like I said, one switches to Null and pokes the shields from 15km-20km. If it is not shield-tanked then one can soon see how strong the armor tank is. At some point will you need to show how fast you can fly and make a first couple of shots, which then will give away your weapons. Or say what are you going to do against a ship out of your reach? Do you just sit there and watch your ship die?



I'm not quite sure what you're saying... If you're saying the 800 plate one is better at catching kiters you would be right.. You know.. it goes faster?

Still not ideal in a cruiser vs cruiser brawl. the 1600 one would roll over it.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Whitehound
#27 - 2013-07-19 05:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
And stating that the 800 plate thorax would kill the 1600 thorax pretty much excludes you from this conversation because you clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I have looked at the numbers and the two are pretty close, I give you that. But it is like I said, one switches to Null and pokes the shields from 15km-20km. If it is not shield-tanked then one can soon see how strong the armor tank is. At some point will you need to show how fast you can fly and make a first couple of shots, which then will give away your weapons. Or say what are you going to do against a ship out of your reach? Do you just sit there and watch your ship die?



I'm not quite sure what you're saying... If you're saying the 800 plate one is better at catching kiters you would be right.. You know.. it goes faster?

Still not ideal in a cruiser vs cruiser brawl. the 1600 one would roll over it.

No, they both are pretty much useless for solo PvP, but you could use the 800 to kill the 1600. And no, it does not mean one is better than the other. I said it was slightly better, not wanting to bruise your ego when I said to be gentle with you, but suffers the same problems.

And how do you catch a sniper or a kiter with a 1600/800mm-plated, double/triple trimark-rigged Thorax?!

I am guessing your solo PvP experience is based on 1v1 fights with corp mates where you tell each other to attack. It is however not what solo PvP is about. It is about not getting caught and those two Thoraxes will get caught, because they are too slow, too inert and lack range to make up for it. The eHP is nice, but of no consequence to the outcome.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tastarr Harr
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-07-19 08:50:54 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

I'm not quite sure what you're saying... If you're saying the 800 plate one is better at catching kiters you would be right.. You know.. it goes faster?

Still not ideal in a cruiser vs cruiser brawl. the 1600 one would roll over it.


Could you please elaborate a bit on why the 1600 one would beat the 800 one? I tried running the numbers, and in a brawl against each other both seem to come down to very similar stats for velocity, range, damage, EHP, align time, tracking, cap stability and signature. What's the factor that benefits the 1600 one that much?

Or did your comment mostly focus on the advantage of AB vs. missile ships? If so, I misinterpreted your comment, and my question is moot.
Whitehound
#29 - 2013-07-19 09:43:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Tastarr Harr wrote:
What's the factor that benefits the 1600 one that much?

Not meaning to be rude, but the main factor that plays a role here is stupidity.

Some players actually brawl with 0km distance in between and do not care for any of the other factors. The 1600mm-plated and fitted with Electron Blasters will do more DPS, has got better tracking to help with the DPS and about the same eHP. So when both pilots come together at 0km should the one with the 1600mm plate win over the one with the 800mm plate.

The fitting works for 1v1 within the corp or perhaps for high-sec duelling and when you can talk the other pilot into a 0km-distance brawl... Then try doing it in low-sec...

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Lockheed19
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-07-19 13:10:49 UTC
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
I'm looking for something I can cruise around belts and kill the new Tag dropping NPC's as well as engage opponents in lowsec. So i'm guessing armor buffer is out of the picture. I've heard talk of dual repping Thoraxes and what not. Does anyone here have some suggestions.


Yes mate, try this;

5 x Heavy Electron II w/FedNavy AM

Experimental 10mn AB
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Cap Booster II w/Navy 400's

800mm RRT Plate
2 x EANM II
MAR II
MAAR w/paste

5 x Hammerhead II

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
2 x Medium Trimark

With my skills I get 438 dps and that's without damage mods. Lovely ship to fly and can take on multiple opponents.

Hope this is of use. :-)
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#31 - 2013-07-19 13:22:03 UTC
Tastarr Harr wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

I'm not quite sure what you're saying... If you're saying the 800 plate one is better at catching kiters you would be right.. You know.. it goes faster?

Still not ideal in a cruiser vs cruiser brawl. the 1600 one would roll over it.


Could you please elaborate a bit on why the 1600 one would beat the 800 one? I tried running the numbers, and in a brawl against each other both seem to come down to very similar stats for velocity, range, damage, EHP, align time, tracking, cap stability and signature. What's the factor that benefits the 1600 one that much?

Or did your comment mostly focus on the advantage of AB vs. missile ships? If so, I misinterpreted your comment, and my question is moot.



Tank, Once you are in a brawl with those ships the large difference in tank will be the difference maker.

Yes the 800 one has slightly more dps and range but the difference isn't large enough to offset the large difference in tank.

I'm not saying the 1600 fit is all around better, its just better once you initiate a brawl, its worse before that.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#32 - 2013-07-19 14:21:14 UTC
The 1600 rax goes 1666m/s cold with the MWD. The 800 goes 1767 m/s cold with the MWD. If you want to trade 1/3 of your tank for 100m/s speed gain be my guest. If you don't believe that the 1600 plated version will win you can test it with me on the test server.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
Whitehound
#33 - 2013-07-19 14:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Yes the 800 one has slightly more dps and range but the difference isn't large enough to offset the large difference in tank.

The 1600 deals more DPS than the 800.

The 800 uses Heavy Ion Blaster IIs with one mag stabs. This is 319 DPS with Antimatter.
The 1600 uses Heavy Electron Blaster IIs with two mag stabs. This is 359 DPS with Antimatter.

Both have about the same eHP.

The 800 with 800mm T2 plate, DCU II, two EANM II and triple trimark I has got 29.9k eHP or 31k eHP against Antimatter.
The 1600 with 1600mm Tungsten plate, DCU II, one EANM II and double trimark I has got 29.6k eHP or 30.6k eHP against Antimatter.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Tastarr Harr
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-07-19 14:37:30 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Tastarr Harr wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

I'm not quite sure what you're saying... If you're saying the 800 plate one is better at catching kiters you would be right.. You know.. it goes faster?

Still not ideal in a cruiser vs cruiser brawl. the 1600 one would roll over it.


Could you please elaborate a bit on why the 1600 one would beat the 800 one? I tried running the numbers, and in a brawl against each other both seem to come down to very similar stats for velocity, range, damage, EHP, align time, tracking, cap stability and signature. What's the factor that benefits the 1600 one that much?

Or did your comment mostly focus on the advantage of AB vs. missile ships? If so, I misinterpreted your comment, and my question is moot.



Tank, Once you are in a brawl with those ships the large difference in tank will be the difference maker.

Yes the 800 one has slightly more dps and range but the difference isn't large enough to offset the large difference in tank.

I'm not saying the 1600 fit is all around better, its just better once you initiate a brawl, its worse before that.


Ok, let me be more specific here:

I plugged both "Standard Dual Prop" and "I WANT TO GO FAST" into EFT and both have 29k EHP, with the 800 version coming out slightly ahead by 300 EHP. Was one of the fits 'wrong' or where's the '1/3 difference in EHP' coming from?
Whitehound
#35 - 2013-07-19 14:42:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
God's Apples wrote:
The 1600 rax goes 1666m/s cold with the MWD. The 800 goes 1767 m/s cold with the MWD. If you want to trade 1/3 of your tank for 100m/s speed gain be my guest. If you don't believe that the 1600 plated version will win you can test it with me on the test server.

In a 1v1 will the 1600 be faster.

The 800 uses two 55% webs, which will slow down the 1600 with AB to 145 m/s.
The 1600 uses a single 60% web, which will slow down the 800 without AB to 110 m/s.
Both have scrams and none will be using MWDs.

How can you guys actually post and argue about fittings and not turn red? I have taken a longer look at these fittings than you. And you want to judge my fittings while you do not even know what your own fittings are capable of. Roll

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#36 - 2013-07-19 17:08:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Ohh lol yea i didn't notice that the 800 plate one has two eanms, i didn't make that fit because i'm lazy. Stole it from Trouser.


1600 plate one will still win.


And white, i'm fairly certain that me and apples have spent more time looking at EFT and actually TESTING what we make in eft than you will in another ten years.

Theory is fine. Theory without expirience is useless.

I thought i knew a lot about pvp back when i lived in high sec because i had read a lot and EFT'd a lot... I was very very wrong.. i knew nothing.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Whitehound
#37 - 2013-07-19 19:10:59 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Ohh lol yea i didn't notice that the 800 plate one has two eanms, i didn't make that fit because i'm lazy. Stole it from Trouser.


1600 plate one will still win.


And white, i'm fairly certain that me and apples have spent more time looking at EFT and actually TESTING what we make in eft than you will in another ten years.

Theory is fine. Theory without expirience is useless.

I thought i knew a lot about pvp back when i lived in high sec because i had read a lot and EFT'd a lot... I was very very wrong.. i knew nothing.

I still do not care for your PvP experience. Use killmails to show it, but stop using me as your crutch when you think I am bad. What we want to see are good fittings and good reasoning. Being honest about where your fittings are from is good, but does not help your case. Talk less nonsense, think before you post and you will not have to make excuses for yourself.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#38 - 2013-07-19 19:18:53 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Ohh lol yea i didn't notice that the 800 plate one has two eanms, i didn't make that fit because i'm lazy. Stole it from Trouser.


1600 plate one will still win.


And white, i'm fairly certain that me and apples have spent more time looking at EFT and actually TESTING what we make in eft than you will in another ten years.

Theory is fine. Theory without expirience is useless.

I thought i knew a lot about pvp back when i lived in high sec because i had read a lot and EFT'd a lot... I was very very wrong.. i knew nothing.

I still do not care for your PvP experience. Use killmails to show it, but stop using me as your crutch when you think I am bad. What we want to see are good fittings and good reasoning. Being honest about where your fittings are from is good, but does not help your case. Talk less nonsense, think before you post and you will not have to make excuses for yourself.


Quite sure i already did but alright.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#39 - 2013-07-19 21:13:26 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
Quote:
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Thread cleaned up according to the above rules. There's good discussion being on, with people coming from multiple perspectives/angles. Please don't let it be stunted by ad hominems and random insults.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#40 - 2013-07-19 21:36:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
I'm looking for something I can cruise around belts and kill the new Tag dropping NPC's as well as engage opponents in lowsec. So i'm guessing armor buffer is out of the picture. I've heard talk of dual repping Thoraxes and what not. Does anyone here have some suggestions.


Armor buffer is most definitely not out of the picture. It certainly does not have the long term survivability that an active fit would have -- you can't go on a 10-fight spree without docking -- but you can certainly fight once or maybe twice in between docking. Since this is lowsec, and thus empire space, docking is a thing you can do, so buffer tanking is okay.

Since the discussion is way to far in for the Thorax for me to jump in, I'll just offer up an Omen fit. I'm not sure how well it'd do against the rats, but it's definitely fun to fly in PvP.

Quote:
[Omen, Definitely fitted with lasers]

Reactor Control Unit II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
720mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I


Vespa EC-600 x3
Hornet EC-300 x2


Good luck! Pirate

Ed: You can do almost exactly the same thing with a Thorax, and you have +10m3 drone bay and +1 mid slot (for a web or TP or something). Go hunting for cocky frigates and one-shot them (Slicers!).

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
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